Vincent for Valanciunas (Bonus trade with Utah's Kessler)

[wemby]

An expiring for JV outright is fair.

Not to the Wizards or else they wouldn't have signed him. If some team feels expiring + a few SRPs is too steep a price, the solution is simple: look elsewhere. Problem solved.

[zimpy27]

An expiring for JV outright is fair.

Not to the Wizards or else they wouldn't have signed him. If some team feels expiring + a few SRPs is too steep a price, the solution is simple: look elsewhere. Problem solved.

The actual solution is to disagree with your evaluation and continue to believe that Vincent+2/3 SRPs is enough while you continue to believe that it is an expiring+2-3 SRPs that is needed.

[toooskies]

Ultimately the question is not whether the Lakers are the best fit but whether the Lakers are the highest bidder. Plenty of teams could use another solid big.

[shangrila]

Yeah, I don't think this deal is a given. Val is an actual contributor on a positive contract. Vincent is not.

If Vincent were an expiring I could see it but in the new cap climate it's more of a burden than in previous years.

[Saul Goodman]

The easier deal is

Valanciunas


For


Reddish
Hood
Hayes
Lakers 2nd 2025
Clippers 2025 2nd

[penbeast0]

I'm good with lotto protected 1st (will stay a 1st until it conveys rather than disappear) and Vincent for JV and 2 seconds from Washington. LA restocks its cupboard of 2nds and gets a solid player in a position of need, Washington takes on an extra year of salary and gives a couple of its extra 2nds to get a 1st.

[ejftw]

I like Jonas behind Zu instead of playing Mo or pushing Nico.. LAC still has a couple seconds left. Seems like a good deal if that’s the asking price.

Zu can play a few less regular season minutes a night.. And the salary difference between Tucker/Jonas really makes it easy to duck the tax once LAC decide to do that..

LAC has the worse of UTAH/LAC 2030 2nd and 2031 LAC 2nd to trade only.. If i'm washington i would take vincent and 4 2nds from LAL over tucker and those 2 seconds from LAC

Wouldn't be surprised if Washington does prefer to do that, while looking to flip Vincent and a pair of seconds for an expiring, netting then two seconds that are in this decade. Wouldn't argue if Frank tried to jump in here, using PJ and Bones while taking on Vincent's second year, along with, say, Johnny Davis and snagging a pair of seconds (say 1.5 for taking on Gabe and .5 for the quasi potential of Bones vs the bust of Davis).

Clippers can then run a, in theory, elite defensive unit with Vincent-Dunn-Mann-Jones-Zu that would do worse than your local JUCO on offense

[zimpy27]

Bonus trade idea:

Lakers get Valanciunas
Lakers give Vincent, unprotect LAL27FRP

Wizards get Vincent (in to TPE), Kessler, $10m TPE
Wizards give Valanciunas, PBJ, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)

Jazz get PBJ, unprotect LAL27FRP, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)
Jazz give Kessler


Logic of trade is that Wiz see Sarr+Kessler as a dynamic frontcourt of future.

[nate33]

Bonus trade idea:

Lakers get Valanciunas
Lakers give Vincent, unprotect LAL27FRP

Wizards get Vincent (in to TPE), Kessler, $10m TPE
Wizards give Valanciunas, PBJ, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)

Jazz get PBJ, unprotect LAL27FRP, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)
Jazz give Kessler


Logic of trade is that Wiz see Sarr+Kessler as a dynamic frontcourt of future.

Cut out Utah and I'd do it from Washington's perspective.

That Utah idea is horrible though. There's no way the Wizards are giving up a likely high 2027 FRP for Kessler. The Wizards need to land stars before they think about filling out their roster with role players.

But JV for Vincent and the LAL 2027 FRP is a good trade.

[Texas Chuck]

unprotected 1st to turn Vincent into JV is a terrible, terrible idea. Lotto protected 1st? Seems perfect.
unprotected and lightly protected first for Kessler is a massive overpay.

Amazing deal for Utah. Washington for some reason hates value in that version and hands it all to Utah. Bad for LA as they terribly overpay.

[raleigh]

The easier deal is

Valanciunas


For


Reddish
Hood
Hayes
Lakers 2nd 2025
Clippers 2025 2nd

Is that a legal trade? The Lakers have little wiggle room...

[SkyHook]

Bonus trade idea:

Lakers get Valanciunas
Lakers give Vincent, unprotect LAL27FRP

Wizards get Vincent (in to TPE), Kessler, $10m TPE
Wizards give Valanciunas, PBJ, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)

Jazz get PBJ, unprotect LAL27FRP, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)
Jazz give Kessler


Logic of trade is that Wiz see Sarr+Kessler as a dynamic frontcourt of future.

Cut out Utah and I'd do it from Washington's perspective.

That Utah idea is horrible though. There's no way the Wizards are giving up a likely high 2027 FRP for Kessler. The Wizards need to land stars before they think about filling out their roster with role players.

But JV for Vincent and the LAL 2027 FRP is a good trade.

I'm trying to understand the logic that leads one to believe that 91st percentile dEPM Kessler--leading the league in block rate (and three point field goal percentage)--is merely a role player and unworthy of a FRP in return while 2nd percentile dEPM Valanciunas--saved from being the worst defensive center in the league only because Noah Clowney exists--is such a stellar upgrade that he merits one.

[nate33]

Bonus trade idea:

Lakers get Valanciunas
Lakers give Vincent, unprotect LAL27FRP

Wizards get Vincent (in to TPE), Kessler, $10m TPE
Wizards give Valanciunas, PBJ, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)

Jazz get PBJ, unprotect LAL27FRP, WSH27FRP(1-6 protected, conveys 28 if FRP with Knicks conveys in 26)
Jazz give Kessler


Logic of trade is that Wiz see Sarr+Kessler as a dynamic frontcourt of future.

Cut out Utah and I'd do it from Washington's perspective.

That Utah idea is horrible though. There's no way the Wizards are giving up a likely high 2027 FRP for Kessler. The Wizards need to land stars before they think about filling out their roster with role players.

But JV for Vincent and the LAL 2027 FRP is a good trade.

I'm trying to understand the logic that leads one to believe that 91st percentile dEPM Kessler--leading the league in block rate (and three point field goal percentage)--is merely a role player and unworthy of a FRP in return while 2nd percentile dEPM Valanciunas--saved from being the worst defensive center in the league only because Noah Clowney exists--is such a stellar upgrade that he merits one.

Because the FRP for Kessler is likely to be in the high lottery. The FRP for JV will be in the late teens or early 20's. It's also in the distant future: 2029 at the earliest.

And lol at mentioning Kessler leading the league in 3P% because he has hit 2 of 2 in 18 total games and has attempted only 24 in his entire career (hitting 29%).

[nate33]

unprotected 1st to turn Vincent into JV is a terrible, terrible idea. Lotto protected 1st? Seems perfect.
unprotected and lightly protected first for Kessler is a massive overpay.

Amazing deal for Utah. Washington for some reason hates value in that version and hands it all to Utah. Bad for LA as they terribly overpay.

Yeah, I agree that LAL ought to protect that pick. However, they already owe their 2027 pick to Utah, so we're actually talking about the 2029 pick. I'd be okay with lotto protection if the obligation kept getting rolled over for a few years if it didn't convey in 2029. But if LA wants the future flexibility by not encumbering the pick over the long term, then I'd only agree to minimal protection - top 6 or so.

[SkyHook]

Cut out Utah and I'd do it from Washington's perspective.

That Utah idea is horrible though. There's no way the Wizards are giving up a likely high 2027 FRP for Kessler. The Wizards need to land stars before they think about filling out their roster with role players.

But JV for Vincent and the LAL 2027 FRP is a good trade.

I'm trying to understand the logic that leads one to believe that 91st percentile dEPM Kessler--leading the league in block rate (and three point field goal percentage)--is merely a role player and unworthy of a FRP in return while 2nd percentile dEPM Valanciunas--saved from being the worst defensive center in the league only because Noah Clowney exists--is such a stellar upgrade that he merits one.

Because the FRP for Kessler is likely to be in the high lottery. The FRP for JV will be in the late teens or early 20's. It's also in the distant future: 2029 at the earliest.

And lol at mentioning Kessler leading the league in 3P% because he has hit 2 of 2 in 18 total games and has attempted only 24 in his entire career (hitting 29%).

Does the green font no longer mean what it used to?

[zimpy27]

unprotected 1st to turn Vincent into JV is a terrible, terrible idea. Lotto protected 1st? Seems perfect.
unprotected and lightly protected first for Kessler is a massive overpay.

Amazing deal for Utah. Washington for some reason hates value in that version and hands it all to Utah. Bad for LA as they terribly overpay.

Yeah, I agree that LAL ought to protect that pick. However, they already owe their 2027 pick to Utah, so we're actually talking about the 2029 pick. I'd be okay with lotto protection if the obligation kept getting rolled over for a few years if it didn't convey in 2029. But if LA wants the future flexibility by not encumbering the pick over the long term, then I'd only agree to minimal protection - top 6 or so.

Utah already has the Lakers 2027 FRP protected 1-4. Lakers just remove the 1-4 protections on the pick they already gave to Utah.

If you cut Utah out of the deal then it's just Vincent for Val.

Wizards give a pick protected 1-6 to Utah. Can increase protections.

[nate33]

unprotected 1st to turn Vincent into JV is a terrible, terrible idea. Lotto protected 1st? Seems perfect.
unprotected and lightly protected first for Kessler is a massive overpay.

Amazing deal for Utah. Washington for some reason hates value in that version and hands it all to Utah. Bad for LA as they terribly overpay.

Yeah, I agree that LAL ought to protect that pick. However, they already owe their 2027 pick to Utah, so we're actually talking about the 2029 pick. I'd be okay with lotto protection if the obligation kept getting rolled over for a few years if it didn't convey in 2029. But if LA wants the future flexibility by not encumbering the pick over the long term, then I'd only agree to minimal protection - top 6 or so.

Utah already has the Lakers 2027 FRP protected 1-4. Lakers just remove the 1-4 protections on the pick they already gave to Utah.

If you cut Utah out of the deal then it's just Vincent for Val.

Wizards give a pick protected 1-6 to Utah. Can increase protections.

The Wizards have absolutely no interest in trading away a future pick for Kessler. None.

If there is a Val for Vincent trade where the Lakers throw in a protected first, I'm interested. Otherwise, there really isn't a deal to be made.

[zimpy27]

Yeah, I agree that LAL ought to protect that pick. However, they already owe their 2027 pick to Utah, so we're actually talking about the 2029 pick. I'd be okay with lotto protection if the obligation kept getting rolled over for a few years if it didn't convey in 2029. But if LA wants the future flexibility by not encumbering the pick over the long term, then I'd only agree to minimal protection - top 6 or so.

Utah already has the Lakers 2027 FRP protected 1-4. Lakers just remove the 1-4 protections on the pick they already gave to Utah.

If you cut Utah out of the deal then it's just Vincent for Val.

Wizards give a pick protected 1-6 to Utah. Can increase protections.

The Wizards have absolutely no interest in trading away a future pick for Kessler. None.

If there is a Val for Vincent trade where the Lakers throw in a protected first, I'm interested. Otherwise, there really isn't a deal to be made.

What value do you think Val has?

Most here see it as 2-3 SRPs with Vincent for Val.

[nate33]

Utah already has the Lakers 2027 FRP protected 1-4. Lakers just remove the 1-4 protections on the pick they already gave to Utah.

If you cut Utah out of the deal then it's just Vincent for Val.

Wizards give a pick protected 1-6 to Utah. Can increase protections.

The Wizards have absolutely no interest in trading away a future pick for Kessler. None.

If there is a Val for Vincent trade where the Lakers throw in a protected first, I'm interested. Otherwise, there really isn't a deal to be made.

What value do you think Val has?

Most here see it as 2-3 SRPs with Vincent for Val.

The problem is, those SRP's are late SRP's, which have virtually no value.

If you look at history, picks in the 45-60 range aren't any better than undrafted walk-ons. There are more useful undrafted walk-ons in this league than there are players picked 45-60.

I'd trade Val for two high SRP's in the 31-40 range, but not a handful of late picks.