12/15 - Game 25: Mavericks (16-9) @ Warriors (14-10) 5:30pm PST

[whatisacenter]

source?

Where have you been? Do you think they could have traded Podz for Lauri straight up?

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and literally twelve hours after that, Shams clarified

"But if the Golden State Warriors put in a Brandin Podziemski and from what I'm told, three first-round picks, three or four unprotected pick swaps, three or four second-round picks..."

At that point, one of the hosts mentioned breakout wing Jonathan Kuminga as a potential name in trade talks.

"Kuminga is a name but I think, for everything I'm told, the Jazz are focused on Brandin Podziemski and his inclusion in the deal," Charania said. "All the picks being in the deal. And I think from the Warriors perspective, it's Podziemski, but then there's not all the picks and if it's all the picks, then there's not going to be a Podziemski."

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-podz-jazzs-focus-markkanen-033935219.html

Lol, I thought you were referring to the pick compensation not JK being included...they would have had to make salaries match somehow.

[Onus]

JK can be part of Bob's legacy but this roster has been built by MDJ. Time to move on already.

The Draymond extension.

The CP3 trade and letting his contract go for nothing.

Heck, Jr. was heavily involved in the draft since the Poole pick.

Money moves are on Lacob. So the CP3 contract not being used is on Lacob. Money is at the owner's directive. Lacob gets credit for going into the tax when Bob was here, he doesn't get credit for not using the cp3 contract.

So the only issue you have is the draymond extension which is on MDJ for sure.

Right, but if Bob was still here you would lump that in on him.

Money is always from the owner.

It's why I don't blame the twolves gm for trading KAT. That was owner related.

[HiRez]

Imagine we had Markkanen instead of Podz...

You mean instead of Podz, Kuminga, Moody, and 4 first round picks. If you're going to imagine it, that's what you have to imagine because that's allegedly what Ainge was asking, and he's not known for caving (or even bending) in trade talks.

Markkanen miiiiight have helped to win the game last night, but the result could easily have been the same since he's going to give up a lot on the defensive end, like he's not stopping Kyrie or Luka from doing what they did.

source?

I can't find a source for the 4 pick ask (but I'm at work so I'm not going to spend too much time on it), but I know I read that in at least one article (not from some random guy posting). But here's an article claiming the Warriors offered those 3 players and "first round picks" (plural), and Ainge was asking for more, so that's almost certainly at least 3 FRPs, and, since it's Ainge, take the over.

Utah’s High Asking Price For Lauri Markkanen Shows OKC Thunder Trade Was Never Realistic

On Monday, Shams Charania reported that Utah is still listening to Golden State’s godfather offer for Markkanen, but the two sides appear to be far off. The Warriors offered Moses Moody and first round picks, but Ainge reportedly countered with Moody, Jonathan Kuminga, Brandin Podziemski and additional draft capital.

Anyway, it was going to he A LOT more than Podz. Markkanen would help win a few more games for sure over Podz (terrible this year), JK (flashes, but still too inconsistent), and Moody (not bad, but Kerr won't play him), but I don't think he powers them into legitimate contention.

The bottom line is we're not only losing because we lack a second scoring option (although that's true), but because Steph and Dray are only occasionally the players they once were. Increasingly, we need a new first scoring option and younger, fresher (but skilled) legs, but no one wants to talk about that. This is a franchise that hanging onto the past by its fingernails and gravity always wins in that situation. Can't count on Steph's and Dray's heroics to win every game anymore. At times they do it because they're legends, but they're both slowly becoming a touch slower, more fatigued, and more erratic. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way of things.

Watch on YouTube

[whatisacenter]

More Curry/JK PnR would be nice.

[Crazy-Canuck]

More Curry/JK PnR would be nice.

He struggles screening and rolling, yet you want more?

[whatisacenter]

More Curry/JK PnR would be nice.

He struggles screening and rolling, yet you want more?

It seems to work.

[Onus]

You mean instead of Podz, Kuminga, Moody, and 4 first round picks. If you're going to imagine it, that's what you have to imagine because that's allegedly what Ainge was asking, and he's not known for caving (or even bending) in trade talks.

Markkanen miiiiight have helped to win the game last night, but the result could easily have been the same since he's going to give up a lot on the defensive end, like he's not stopping Kyrie or Luka from doing what they did.

source?

I can't find a source for the 4 pick ask (but I'm at work so I'm not going to spend too much time on it), but I know I read that in at least one article (not from some random guy posting). But here's an article claiming the Warriors offered those 3 players and "first round picks" (plural), and Ainge was asking for more, so that's almost certainly at least 3 FRPs, and, since it's Ainge, take the over.

Utah’s High Asking Price For Lauri Markkanen Shows OKC Thunder Trade Was Never Realistic

On Monday, Shams Charania reported that Utah is still listening to Golden State’s godfather offer for Markkanen, but the two sides appear to be far off. The Warriors offered Moses Moody and first round picks, but Ainge reportedly countered with Moody, Jonathan Kuminga, Brandin Podziemski and additional draft capital.

Anyway, it was going to he A LOT more than Podz. Markkanen would help win a few more games for sure over Podz (terrible this year), JK (flashes, but still too inconsistent), and Moody (not bad, but Kerr won't play him), but I don't think he powers them into legitimate contention.

The bottom line is we're not only losing because we lack a second scoring option (although that's true), but because Steph and Dray are only occasionally the players they once were. Increasingly, we need a new first scoring option and younger, fresher (but skilled) legs, but no one wants to talk about that. This is a franchise that hanging onto the past by its fingernails and gravity always wins in that situation. Can't count on Steph's and Dray's heroics to win every game anymore. At times they do it because they're legends, but they're both slowly becoming a touch slower, more fatigued, and more erratic. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way of things.

Watch on YouTube

A Schroder/Curry/Wiggins/Lauri/Dray lineup would have more than enough scoring punch. Would it have enough defense I don't know. But that team will be able to score in the clutch.

[Crazy-Canuck]

More Curry/JK PnR would be nice.

He struggles screening and rolling, yet you want more?

It seems to work.

Hes .82 ppp for 3rd best on team as the handler.

[vvoland]

He struggles screening and rolling, yet you want more?

It seems to work.

Hes .82 ppp for 3rd best on team as the handler.

This is with curry screening and jk handling? Does that number change much if there's another shooter on the floor (buddy and/or waters)?

[Crazy-Canuck]

It seems to work.

Hes .82 ppp for 3rd best on team as the handler.

This is with curry screening and jk handling? Does that number change much if there's another shooter on the floor (buddy and/or waters)?

I dont have access to indepth stuff regarding who he does it with. But that .82 ppp is almost exactly the same as last season. The biggest difference for him this year seems to be iso scoring, hes in the 12th percentile. The lack of a counter is hurting him. If theres a rim protector, his go to was often that pull up middy, but hes shooting 29% on them this year. Upping his usage and volume is backfiring. He's been at his best with no dribbles and operating out of the dunkers spot and transition.

Its always with jk handling. He doesn't have any stats as the roll man this year.

[vvoland]

Hes .82 ppp for 3rd best on team as the handler.

This is with curry screening and jk handling? Does that number change much if there's another shooter on the floor (buddy and/or waters)?

I dont have access to indepth stuff regarding who he does it with. But that .82 ppp is almost exactly the same as last season. The biggest difference for him this year seems to be iso scoring, hes in the 12th percentile. The lack of a counter is hurting him. If theres a rim protector, his go to was often that pull up middy, but hes shooting 29% on them this year. Upping his usage and volume is backfiring. He's been at his best with no dribbles and operating out of the dunkers spot and transition.

Its always with jk handling. He doesn't have any stats as the roll man this year.

Wow. That's a pretty bad number. I'm going to check the nba.com stats to see his shooting by area as I'm hopeful his closer middy is better than the long middy (like the shots he took last night off a few dribbles inside the FT line).

[vvoland]

holy brickfest, batman. JK is shooting 23% from the right corner 3 and 25% from midrange. He's actually 40% from the left corner and 34% above the break (and that's after a horrific start to the season shooting from everywhere). He'll probably get to his historical TS/eFG numbers anyway, but taking the midrange out of his game and driving from the right corner more than shooting might make a world of difference.

[Jester_]

You mean instead of Podz, Kuminga, Moody, and 4 first round picks. If you're going to imagine it, that's what you have to imagine because that's allegedly what Ainge was asking, and he's not known for caving (or even bending) in trade talks.

Markkanen miiiiight have helped to win the game last night, but the result could easily have been the same since he's going to give up a lot on the defensive end, like he's not stopping Kyrie or Luka from doing what they did.

source?

I can't find a source for the 4 pick ask (but I'm at work so I'm not going to spend too much time on it), but I know I read that in at least one article (not from some random guy posting). But here's an article claiming the Warriors offered those 3 players and "first round picks" (plural), and Ainge was asking for more, so that's almost certainly at least 3 FRPs, and, since it's Ainge, take the over.

Utah’s High Asking Price For Lauri Markkanen Shows OKC Thunder Trade Was Never Realistic

On Monday, Shams Charania reported that Utah is still listening to Golden State’s godfather offer for Markkanen, but the two sides appear to be far off. The Warriors offered Moses Moody and first round picks, but Ainge reportedly countered with Moody, Jonathan Kuminga, Brandin Podziemski and additional draft capital.

Anyway, it was going to he A LOT more than Podz. Markkanen would help win a few more games for sure over Podz (terrible this year), JK (flashes, but still too inconsistent), and Moody (not bad, but Kerr won't play him), but I don't think he powers them into legitimate contention.

The bottom line is we're not only losing because we lack a second scoring option (although that's true), but because Steph and Dray are only occasionally the players they once were. Increasingly, we need a new first scoring option and younger, fresher (but skilled) legs, but no one wants to talk about that. This is a franchise that hanging onto the past by its fingernails and gravity always wins in that situation. Can't count on Steph's and Dray's heroics to win every game anymore. At times they do it because they're legends, but they're both slowly becoming a touch slower, more fatigued, and more erratic. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way of things.

Watch on YouTube

It's pretty clear Podz was the holdout and if we were willing to give him up with some picks we'd probably have Lauri

and suggesting that swapping Podz with Lauri on this roster doesn't win us an extra 10+ games this year is just loonie-bin bananas

the hysteria over dray and especially steph are way overblown. their supporting casts suck. Steph is still averaging 27 a game on 63% TS per 36 and y'all are acting like he's washed. he has less offensive firepower around him than he's ever had in his career and not a single secondary playmaker, no **** he's under more pressure

just a lot of cope to not deal with the fact that our FO made an all time F up not trading a bum for an all-NBA calibre player who would've made us an instant title threat. pretty embarassing you're still trying to defend this

[SpreeS]

Curry in last 10 games where GSW has 2W and 8L

Curry outplayed just once other team 1st option in this period.

His 4Q shooting splits are awful

Curry .340/.290/.100 .467 TS 36.1 USG (hero ball???)
Green .357/.000/.333 .361 TS

3Q to 4Q TS

Curry .722 to .467
Green .679 to .361

These legends are old. They cant play +30min anymore and be effective.

that's why you need the youngsters to help the vets carrying the load in stretches, so they don't arrive in the 4th quarter gassed. that is what the kuminga and podz of this world are supposed to help with. right now steph, dray, wiggins have to carry the team offensively and defensively because the rest of the guys, including the future franchise cornerstones, are unable to do it even for 15 minutes a game. what are they out there for?

Just hold your horses. Curry plays 23.5min in first 3 quarters and has 11.6 fga. Green - 20.7min. They are managed perfectly and well rested to play good in 4Q. Wiggs is in prime years and doesn’t play 30min on avg. So I don’t know why you included him at all.

Now Kerr rotations. Kerr played 57 different units in 4Q’s in last 10 games!!! Do players know their roles? There is no stability or continuity.

Looks like Curry lives on olimpic game vibes.

Curry in 4Q in last 10 games

Curry 47 fga
Kuminga 16 fga
Wiggs 10 fga

I would call it hero ball especially if he is really tired. It looks like one dimensional offence which isn’t hard to stop. Maybe this team isn’t bad after all if they were one shot away from 5-0 w/o Curry

[superunknown]

Curry in last 10 games where GSW has 2W and 8L

Curry outplayed just once other team 1st option in this period.

His 4Q shooting splits are awful

Curry .340/.290/.100 .467 TS 36.1 USG (hero ball???)
Green .357/.000/.333 .361 TS

3Q to 4Q TS

Curry .722 to .467
Green .679 to .361

These legends are old. They cant play +30min anymore and be effective.

that's why you need the youngsters to help the vets carrying the load in stretches, so they don't arrive in the 4th quarter gassed. that is what the kuminga and podz of this world are supposed to help with. right now steph, dray, wiggins have to carry the team offensively and defensively because the rest of the guys, including the future franchise cornerstones, are unable to do it even for 15 minutes a game. what are they out there for?

Just hold your horses. Curry plays 23.5min in first 3 quarters and has 11.6 fga. Green - 20.7min. They are managed perfectly and well rested to play good in 4Q. Wiggs is in prime years and doesn’t play 30min on avg. So I don’t know why you included him at all.

Now Kerr rotations. Kerr played 57 different units in 4Q’s in last 10 games!!! Do players know their roles? There is no stability or continuity.

Looks like Curry lives on olimpic game vibes.

Curry in 4Q in last 10 games

Curry 47 fga
Kuminga 16 fga
Wiggs 10 fga

I would call it hero ball especially if he is really tired. It looks like one dimensional offence which isn’t hard to stop. Maybe this team isn’t bad after all if they were one shot away from 5-0 w/o Curry[/quote]

so the problem is steph now? yes, his numbers haven't been great down the stretch and in 4th Q in particular so far this season, his numbers in general are worse than previous year, there is no deny. but:
podz 7.7 points a game on neither 38% from the field and 25% from 3 in 25 mins.
kuminga 15.4 points a game on a 45.5% and 32% from 3 with neither 5 rodmans in almost 25 mins.
TJD? 7.3 points with neither 5 rodmans per game in 17 mins.
moody? 7.4 points with barely 42% from the field in 16 mins.

these are the youngsters that are supposed to pick up some slack, at least in the RS.

@jester is right on the money on this. the FO sh** the bed for the tenth time in the last 3 seasons. steph has literally no help down the stretch, who should he defer to?
podz? a guy that in the last game, with a wide open driving lane in front of him and/or a wide open 3, managed to get locked down by the worst individual defender on planet earth (doncic)?
kuminga? a guy who doesn't have one single consistent move to the basket or bank shot he can rely on if the team need a score?
ofc he has no choice than going hero ball. on the first match-up vs the mavs it paid off and he basically willed the team into a W, yesterday it did not pay off and the dubs lost.
and that's why the team needed and still need a legit second violin, especially down the stretch. none of the youngsters is a legit second option nor a third. and they are also not that good defensively, so you cannot even make an argument that you need them on the floor late in the game for their defensive contribution like for instance GPII.

[SpreeS]

I dont say the problem is Step or Green, but not only youngsters as we see here. These 4 youngters occupies only 11% of whole team salary. There are the rest 160mln usd? Somehow these guys can win w/o Curry, but cant help with him on the floor? Looks like Kuminga feel way better when whole offence isnt occupies by Curry.

Kuminga shooting splits in 13 games where Curry didn't play in last two years (7W and 6L)

2024 .554 .500 .857 27.4min 18.8pts
2025 .500 .391 .730 28.6min 21.6pts (in 143min +39, out 102min +2)

Not everyone can or like play in Curry/Green/Kerr system, but it doesn't mean they are bad players. I give you 20 games and this forum will start to attack Schroder like Kuminga/Podz/Paul/Poole/Wiggins, b/c he likes play iso's a lot (BKN/Germany NT). We will get LAL version of Schroder at best, but not BKN version.

[superunknown]

I dont say the problem is Step or Green, but not only youngsters as we see here. These 4 youngters occupies only 11% of whole team salary. There are the rest 160mln usd? Somehow these guys can win w/o Curry, but cant help with him on the floor? Looks like Kuminga feel way better when whole offence isnt occupies by Curry.

Kuminga shooting splits in 13 games where Curry didn't play in last two years (7W and 6L)

2024 .554 .500 .857 27.4min 18.8pts
2025 .500 .391 .730 28.6min 21.6pts (in 143min +39, out 102min +2)

Not everyone can or like play in Curry/Green/Kerr system, but it doesn't mean they are bad players. I give you 20 games and this forum will start to attack Schroder like Kuminga/Podz/Paul/Poole/Wiggins, b/c he likes play iso's a lot (BKN/Germany NT). We will get LAL version of Schroder at best, but not BKN version.

but the main point is to play in curry/green/kerr system. if kuminga feels way better when the offence isn't occupied by curry, it's his problem (and kerr problem to the extent he hasn't been able to integrate him better into the system) and he'd be better off playing somewhere else, like WASH or BRk where he could feel better playing more individually in a losing context.. apart the fact basketball is not an individual sport like tennis, a (winning) player needs to play together with the other 4 on the floor, within a system, within the schemes, not in a vacuum by himself. there is the playground for that.
they might not be bad players in absolute, but they are bad players in this context. and that what it matters. and that is the sin of this FO and ownership.

PS I disagree on Poole. Poole played great in 2021-2022 until klay's return and kerr forcing him right back in the starting five. infact GS with poole in the starting lineup next to steph had a top 3 record in the league and was kicking asses. and even after he was benched he played well, better tha klay. he was effective within the system, maybe because talent wise is better than the likes of kuminga and pod?