What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do?

[Exp0sed]

I dont see the big man problem as critical as the Jamal Murray problem. He does not play good defense, and he is a black hole on offense. When Joker has the ball there is constant movement and he is among the fastest people to get rid of the ball. Murray in contrast will dribble back and forth for 20 seconds and take a dumb shot trying to save it somehow. His decision making is absolutely horrible. In sum, since he has the ball in hand so much, he can cause a lot more damage than a sub-par big man.

Murray has one of the worst contracts in the league, no1 is trading for him and he won't be eligible for a trade until next season anyway. obviously Murray is the problem but they're stuck with him, so anything they can do - must be worked out around that fact

[nomansland]

He has improved, but those improvements one expects from a guy in his 1st or 2nd season in the NBA not a highly touted veteran player.

And sidestep threes are a basic skill of any spotup shooter. It would be hard to find an NBA player bad enough that he doesnt know to sidestep out of a catch and shoot a three.

Point stands. He doesn't suck. It's also a little crazy that people think a 26 year-old with one full season under his belt is incapable of improving.

People don't like his contract and that's understandable even though I don't think it's as big of an issue as some do. And contract aside, he's actually a really good player that many teams would welcome.

Point doesnt stand. MPJ rarely shoots coming off of screens or motion actions. And when he does he rarely makes it. That is not a dynamic shooter. Thats a spot up shooter.

Relying on superlatives in a discussion gets you in trouble. Words like "sucks," "rarely," and "dynamic" paint you into a corner.

Here's his shot chart this season: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/michael-porter-jr.-shot-chart This is not the shot chart of a guy who's just a spot up shooter.

From memory, I believe that many of his 3's come off screens but I don't have the data to prove it. If you do, by all means I'd love to see it. Should be interesting.

In the meantime, I'm going to watch the next few games with all of this in mind to see what happens.

[nomansland]

I dont see the big man problem as critical as the Jamal Murray problem. He does not play good defense, and he is a black hole on offense. When Joker has the ball there is constant movement and he is among the fastest people to get rid of the ball. Murray in contrast will dribble back and forth for 20 seconds and take a dumb shot trying to save it somehow. His decision making is absolutely horrible. In sum, since he has the ball in hand so much, he can cause a lot more damage than a sub-par big man.

Murray has one of the worst contracts in the league, no1 is trading for him and he won't be eligible for a trade until next season anyway. obviously Murray is the problem but they're stuck with him, so anything they can do - must be worked out around that fact

I wrote this before, but you're right. They're stuck with him and unless it's a miracle trade, they are going to succeed or fail with him either way. He has to be better if a deep run into the playoffs or championship will be possible.

Hopefully that happens.

[Alatan]

Point stands. He doesn't suck. It's also a little crazy that people think a 26 year-old with one full season under his belt is incapable of improving.

People don't like his contract and that's understandable even though I don't think it's as big of an issue as some do. And contract aside, he's actually a really good player that many teams would welcome.

Point doesnt stand. MPJ rarely shoots coming off of screens or motion actions. And when he does he rarely makes it. That is not a dynamic shooter. Thats a spot up shooter.

Relying on superlatives in a discussion gets you in trouble. Words like "sucks," "rarely," and "dynamic" paint you into a corner.

Here's his shot chart this season: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/michael-porter-jr.-shot-chart This is not the shot chart of a guy who's just a spot up shooter.

From memory, I believe that many of his 3's come off screens but I don't have the data to prove it. If you do, by all means I'd love to see it. Should be interesting.

In the meantime, I'm going to watch the next few games with all of this in mind to see what happens.

We seem to be misunderstanding each other. I wasnt saying that MPJ sucks as a shooter i was saying that MPJ sucks as a dynamic shooter, meaning that he relies on others creating open looks for him while he mainly stays in a region from witch he catches and shoots. He cant create a three of the dribble, he rarely shoots coming off screens or on the move.

I dont have the data either and sadly i dont have the time to do a deep search for the stats. I was speaking from my watching experience.

[phanman]

How could he be reliable in the minutes he was given?

Mike Malone played him in 20 games for an average of 2.5 minutes a game.

This season, Taylor Jenkins has already played him in 26 games for an average of 15.5mpg, 9.4 ppg, 2.8rpg, 1.2 bpg.

Why was Jenkins able to get this out of Huff but Malone couldn't?

Different team, different line ups and needs on both sides of the court. Also how was he getting on at practice/effort there/getting on with the team-mates?

The Nuggets are not in a position to be worried about line ups and fit when it comes to our bench. We need GOOD PLAYERS, and Jay Huff is clearly better than anyone coming off our bench right now. Not playing him at all last year was inexcusable.

The Nuggets have been a disaster without Jokic on the court for 5 years now. At some point, the coach needs to be held accountable.

Hindsight is 20/20. This is Huff's 4th team in 4 years. I do agree that he wasn't given a fair shot last season to earn minutes on the floor as evidenced by his numerous DNPs and garbage time appearances.

I'd like to believe that the biggest reason for his productive season is the internal development though and the season he spent learning under Jokic. He as on the verge of being out the NBA and worked his way into a productive role under a much better developmental coach in Taylor Jenkins. A guy who has experience getting productivity out of centers (JV, Adams, Edey etc)

[Exp0sed]

I dont see the big man problem as critical as the Jamal Murray problem. He does not play good defense, and he is a black hole on offense. When Joker has the ball there is constant movement and he is among the fastest people to get rid of the ball. Murray in contrast will dribble back and forth for 20 seconds and take a dumb shot trying to save it somehow. His decision making is absolutely horrible. In sum, since he has the ball in hand so much, he can cause a lot more damage than a sub-par big man.

Murray has one of the worst contracts in the league, no1 is trading for him and he won't be eligible for a trade until next season anyway. obviously Murray is the problem but they're stuck with him, so anything they can do - must be worked out around that fact

I wrote this before, but you're right. They're stuck with him and unless it's a miracle trade, they are going to succeed or fail with him either way. He has to be better if a deep run into the playoffs or championship will be possible.

Hopefully that happens.

Nuggets still have a puncher's chance if he's at least serviceable, they don't have to get another 2022 run from him.
even with him sucking, they were up 20 on the Wolves in game 7 of the WCF. Jokic clearly took alot of practice 3's this summer to make sure he doesn't brick like that again. it's a big issue because to win a chip you have to get through at least a couple of teams who have the size and the defensive acumen to make him make those open 3's

they don't need superstar Murray, 75% of that will still give them a shot imo

[nomansland]

Murray has one of the worst contracts in the league, no1 is trading for him and he won't be eligible for a trade until next season anyway. obviously Murray is the problem but they're stuck with him, so anything they can do - must be worked out around that fact

I wrote this before, but you're right. They're stuck with him and unless it's a miracle trade, they are going to succeed or fail with him either way. He has to be better if a deep run into the playoffs or championship will be possible.

Hopefully that happens.

Nuggets still have a puncher's chance if he's at least serviceable, they don't have to get another 2022 run from him.
even with him sucking, they were up 20 on the Wolves in game 7 of the WCF. Jokic clearly took alot of practice 3's this summer to make sure he doesn't brick like that again. it's a big issue because to win a chip you have to get through at least a couple of teams who have the size and the defensive acumen to make him make those open 3's

they don't need superstar Murray, 75% of that will still give them a shot imo

Maybe not 75%, that's what they've had already this year so far, but 85%, 90%, sure.

[Exp0sed]

I wrote this before, but you're right. They're stuck with him and unless it's a miracle trade, they are going to succeed or fail with him either way. He has to be better if a deep run into the playoffs or championship will be possible.

Hopefully that happens.

Maybe not 75%, that's what they've had already this year so far, but 85%, 90%, sure.

imo this season Murray has been a net negative on the court. i'd say he's been like 50% of his old self so far, 75-80% would def do the trick.

[BelgradeNugget]

Different team, different line ups and needs on both sides of the court. Also how was he getting on at practice/effort there/getting on with the team-mates?

The Nuggets are not in a position to be worried about line ups and fit when it comes to our bench. We need GOOD PLAYERS, and Jay Huff is clearly better than anyone coming off our bench right now. Not playing him at all last year was inexcusable.

The Nuggets have been a disaster without Jokic on the court for 5 years now. At some point, the coach needs to be held accountable.

Hindsight is 20/20. This is Huff's 4th team in 4 years. I do agree that he wasn't given a fair shot last season to earn minutes on the floor as evidenced by his numerous DNPs and garbage time appearances.

I'd like to believe that the biggest reason for his productive season is the internal development though and the season he spent learning under Jokic. He as on the verge of being out the NBA and worked his way into a productive role under a much better developmental coach in Taylor Jenkins. A guy who has experience getting productivity out of centers (JV, Adams, Edey etc)

This is a topic I made last year when Denver signed Jay Huff

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2311533

My observations abouth him at the time:

"I thought in this offseason our 2 primary goals were to find backup PG to replace BB and backup C. I hope Jokic will play no more then 70 games similar to last season with some resting near the playoffs. Our first big off the bench is Zake Nnaji (I hope). As we all know, he is injury prone and in the best case he will play around 70 games, which means in 20+ games we will have to play somebody else as a backup C. Also, as we saw last year, there are backup C's much stronger/bigger than Zake and he had trouble guarding them. So then we will use ....DJ...or not. I mean I like his presence in the locker room and on the bench, but he is bad at basketball for the last 5 years. I hold my breath for 12 minutes he had to play in PO's with Jokic in foul trouble. We survived.

With that in mind I looked around the league for backup C's we could sign to be useful as 2/3 option because I don't think throwing away 20+ games is right strategy. Unsigned are Bismack Biyombo (good D), Willy Hernangomez (good O), maybe we could have traded for Goga Bitadze...all better options then DJ.

But we signed Jay Huff... so I looked on the interned about him and I am thrilled. He looks exactly like C we needed.

1. NBA G League Defensive Player of the Year (2023)
2. All-NBA G League First Team (2023)
3. NBA G League blocks leader (2023)
4. NCAA champion (2019)
5. Second-team All-ACC (2021)
6. ACC All-Defensive Team (2021)

G League stats

- 2021-22 - 15.7/6.1/1.2 with 2.4 blk and 64/29/83 shooting
- 2022-23 - 15.0/7.8/1.4 with 3.1 blk and 65/41/77 shooting

In some of this videos he looks like solid NBA player, I'm so high on him, but my question is, if he was unsigned, and we signed him to 2-way contract, what is wrong with him or the NBA?"

"Well to answer my own question, I have watched the whole games he played for Washington against Bucks, Hawks and Miami, and some highlights from g-league, so here are my observations.

1. Offense

Offensively he is NBA ready. Great 3pt shooter, FT and from the midrange. Can finish around the rim with ally-ups or some good moves as an pnr roller. Has pump-fake and straight line drive, sometimes uses euro-step or floater. Unselfish and willing to pass to the corners. Average 15 pts in g-league and his offense can transfer to the NBA easily. In 3 NBA games he played significant minutes he averaged

- 27 min, 14.7/5.7/2.3 with 1.3 blk, 1.3 stl and 4.6 PF. Shooting 61/45/91. A lot of fouls which is understandable for rookie, but low rebounding number for a player of his height and athleticism lead us to

2. Defense

He was defensive player of the year and blocks leader in the g-league, but has one problem to be good defender in the NBA - strength. rn can't hold his position, easy to move under the basket. Second problem is he used his length and athleticism to defend in the g-league but it didn't work so well in this 3 NBA games. He didn't use simple verticality, and he can be very good considering his length and bounce.

If he put some strength and learn how to use verticality he could be the best backup C we had in this era. If that happens, we can use Zake some as small-ball C, but a lot more as backup 4 which could be important since we lost Vlatko for the year."

A year later Jay Huff is exectly the same player and Denver has exectly the same problem.

[BigGargamel]

Dude is not a dynamic shooter. He sucks shooting on the move and has no ability to create anything on his own including a three point shot. That is not one of the best shooters in the league.

I won't contend he's one of the best shooters in the league but have you been watching him this season? He's been putting the ball on the floor a lot more, getting to the rim and shooting floaters. He's improved in those areas.

And watch him use the sidestep on his 3's. He's not just a catch and shoot player.

"Sucks" is the last adjective I'd use.

Nobody who's commented about MPJ for the past two years actually watches the guy. It's really obvious to see in their posts. They judge the injury prone version, and for some reason, the contract.

Yeah, he's 26 but has had to completely readjust the way he plays because of all the back injuries. So yeah, he's still developing his game, even at his age. It can happen.

[NZB2323]

The Nuggets can trade for Zion according to the report. Isn't Denver the healthiest city in America? Maybe Zion can get in shape there and catch some lobs from Jokic.

[BelgradeNugget]

Dude is not a dynamic shooter. He sucks shooting on the move and has no ability to create anything on his own including a three point shot. That is not one of the best shooters in the league.

I won't contend he's one of the best shooters in the league but have you been watching him this season? He's been putting the ball on the floor a lot more, getting to the rim and shooting floaters. He's improved in those areas.

And watch him use the sidestep on his 3's. He's not just a catch and shoot player.

"Sucks" is the last adjective I'd use.

Nobody who's commented about MPJ for the past two years actually watches the guy. It's really obvious to see in their posts. They judge the injury prone version, and for some reason, the contract.

Yeah, he's 26 but has had to completely readjust the way he plays because of all the back injuries. So yeah, he's still developing his game, even at his age. It can happen.

I don't think there is anything unusuall about MPJ still developing. People think of him as vet but here is something to consider - players play organized basketball at college (proffesional in Europe) and NBA. High school doesn't count.

MPJ college 0 + NBA 4 = 4
CB college 3 + NBA 2 = 5

Those 3 seasons at college are also big difference between Braun and Watson as far as understanding of the game goes.

[nomansland]

The Nuggets can trade for Zion according to the report. Isn't Denver the healthiest city in America? Maybe Zion can get in shape there and catch some lobs from Jokic.

No thanks. The Nugs need people who can play.

[zero rings]

Different team, different line ups and needs on both sides of the court. Also how was he getting on at practice/effort there/getting on with the team-mates?

The Nuggets are not in a position to be worried about line ups and fit when it comes to our bench. We need GOOD PLAYERS, and Jay Huff is clearly better than anyone coming off our bench right now. Not playing him at all last year was inexcusable.

The Nuggets have been a disaster without Jokic on the court for 5 years now. At some point, the coach needs to be held accountable.

Hindsight is 20/20. This is Huff's 4th team in 4 years. I do agree that he wasn't given a fair shot last season to earn minutes on the floor as evidenced by his numerous DNPs and garbage time appearances.

I'd like to believe that the biggest reason for his productive season is the internal development though and the season he spent learning under Jokic. He as on the verge of being out the NBA and worked his way into a productive role under a much better developmental coach in Taylor Jenkins. A guy who has experience getting productivity out of centers (JV, Adams, Edey etc)

I could forgive Malone for missing on Huff if we actually had some competent backups on the roster. But no, we had unplayable Zeke and the corpse of Deandre Jordan.

Malone literally had nothing to lose by experimenting with Huff. The bench could not have possibly been worse, and he still didn’t have the imagination to play him. It took Taylor Jenkins all of about 5 minutes to realize Huff was a real player.

[BelgradeNugget]

The Nuggets are not in a position to be worried about line ups and fit when it comes to our bench. We need GOOD PLAYERS, and Jay Huff is clearly better than anyone coming off our bench right now. Not playing him at all last year was inexcusable.

The Nuggets have been a disaster without Jokic on the court for 5 years now. At some point, the coach needs to be held accountable.

Hindsight is 20/20. This is Huff's 4th team in 4 years. I do agree that he wasn't given a fair shot last season to earn minutes on the floor as evidenced by his numerous DNPs and garbage time appearances.

I'd like to believe that the biggest reason for his productive season is the internal development though and the season he spent learning under Jokic. He as on the verge of being out the NBA and worked his way into a productive role under a much better developmental coach in Taylor Jenkins. A guy who has experience getting productivity out of centers (JV, Adams, Edey etc)

I could forgive Malone for missing on Huff if we actually had some competent backups on the roster. But no, we had unplayable Zeke and the corpse of Deandre Jordan.

Malone literally had nothing to lose by experimenting with Huff. The bench could not have possibly been worse, and he still didn’t have the imagination to play him. It took Taylor Jenkins all of about 5 minutes to realize Huff was a real player.

...in a team that has 5 good bigs - JJJ, Brandon Clarke, Zach Edey and Santi Aldama, Huff still got his chance

[DCasey91]

Same thing happened to Joe. Took Dags all of 5 games boom one of the best shooters in the league on rotation.... Joe's my fav Sixer

Doc destroyed his development. His second year he shot 37% from 3 when he got 10mins or more.... **** me who cares if a youngster has a bad game or a bad 2 mins you kill their confidence if they are on such a tight leash. That's the opposite of development

Malone is a Doc clone. PWat and Braun did years before College and PWat looked great anyway in the junior summit stuff

Strawthwer did 3 years and was money in the end at College. There's a couple of posters in the Draft threads who have a sharper eye than the average scout big shout out to them

Fire the coach next season he's doing a Doc, he's going full Jokic or bust. Stupidity

[BelgradeNugget]

Definetly no to Paul Reed. Didn't make it as a 4 and is not a 5.

Sixers fan can tell you straight up no.

Nuggets problem has always been Murray's weight/playstyle and an actual backup defensive C. The second problem is easily fixable yet the FO is stupid.

Goga is a fantastic choice but Nance Jr is really the perfect guy here. Really is underrated. Get it done quit fukn around.

2/21 is literally ideal. Nanji has 8 and change. Every year of Jokic's prime should be to have the list as best as possible which they've failed at.

I'm serious when I say this it'll change the whole dynamics overnight.

I'm not even kidding Dwight Howard is better than Deandre right now. Why do FO's suck arse and having dumb competency on backup bigs.

Nuggets are doing what the Sixers are doing.

Actually get a bloody center and keep em ffs.

I was the one who brought up Reed so I disagree with u on that one, he's miles better than what they're trotting out at backup PF and even C (even tho he isn't a C, no doubt about that)

with that said, Nance is a stroke of genius imo. just a perfect fit on the court and in the lockeroom\off the court as well and should still have a couple of good seasons in him. the prob is the Hawks are competing, they're not gonna take Zeke's long term contract so you'd need a 3rd team for the trade to happen but still, very doable and he's the kind of glue guy that championship teams could sure use.

I get it but I'd rather prioritise what they actually need, backup 5.

Agree Zeke's contract is bad but the thing is Nugs are doing exactly what the Sixers did and not actually solve the problem. It's not hard to get a quality backup big keep them and are relatively undervalued compared to the market. Simple an addition by subtraction trade, get rid of the contract attach something of worth and get what they need back

If I was the Hawks I'd say no obviously but I'm sure there's other around that fits the description better than Reed.

Ultimately I want the list to ready to go every year you have the Joker playing like this.

I agree on priority being backup C, and Nuggets should keep looking for one, but our backup PF's right now are DaRon Holmes II - lost for season, Vlatko Cancar - after ACL last year, now left knee surgery, probably lost for season, Zake Nnaji - lost for basketball.
So I would still cut Cancar and sign Reed.

[zero rings]

Same thing happened to Joe. Took Dags all of 5 games boom one of the best shooters in the league on rotation.... Joe's my fav Sixer

Doc destroyed his development. His second year he shot 37% from 3 when he got 10mins or more.... **** me who cares if a youngster has a bad game or a bad 2 mins you kill their confidence if they are on such a tight leash. That's the opposite of development

Malone is a Doc clone. PWat and Braun did years before College and PWat looked great anyway in the junior summit stuff

Strawthwer did 3 years and was money in the end at College. There's a couple of posters in the Draft threads who have a sharper eye than the average scout big shout out to them

Fire the coach next season he's doing a Doc, he's going full Jokic or bust. Stupidity

Yeah but Malone glazes Jokic after every game, and he even hands out tacky DPOG chains when we win. That’s enough for a lifetime gig here in Denver!

[nomansland]

Same thing happened to Joe. Took Dags all of 5 games boom one of the best shooters in the league on rotation.... Joe's my fav Sixer

Doc destroyed his development. His second year he shot 37% from 3 when he got 10mins or more.... **** me who cares if a youngster has a bad game or a bad 2 mins you kill their confidence if they are on such a tight leash. That's the opposite of development

Malone is a Doc clone. PWat and Braun did years before College and PWat looked great anyway in the junior summit stuff

Strawthwer did 3 years and was money in the end at College. There's a couple of posters in the Draft threads who have a sharper eye than the average scout big shout out to them

Fire the coach next season he's doing a Doc, he's going full Jokic or bust. Stupidity

Watson played 1 year at UCLA and barely got minutes there. Malone has a long history of giving rookies and 2nd year players minutes, but somehow the narrative of him refusing to do so has pervaded.

Doc also was always a poor coach when it came to X's and O's, even with the Celtics. Malone at least can strategize and has an excellent grasp of analytics. The Doc comparison is way off the mark.

[Wolfgang630]

Paul Reed signed back with the Pistons…what?