[The Ringer] The Top 100 Players In The NBA

[Indeed]

Even he is not injured, his playmaking isn't creating opportunities. Certainly he is recognizing a better matchup, but that is more a compliment skill to have the player creates for himself, so I am unsure how that is better than driving right of Barrett.

As for his defensive versatility, he has none, he can't switch. It is pretty evidence that he cannot turn his hip to defend on the perimeter, and he is not a C, so he is rather limited, and we ended up having him as free roam (a gamble role) to double someone, not against them man to man.

I think the gap between Barnes and Barrett isn't even a single digit ranking gap, their scoring is about the same, mainly from transition. The difference is Barrett is better passing to Poeltl that ends up in scoring (passes from category):
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627751/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=AST

I don't believe you have watched a single Raptors game in the last 4 years if this is your argument.

You claim Scottie has no defensive versatility, in spite of the multitude of stats that show otherwise. But ignoring all that, arguing defensive capabilities, in a discussion about RJ being better is hilarious. RJ is and always has been a net negative defender, if Scottie isn't versatile, RJ isn't even an NBA level defender lol.

And his playmaking isn't creating opportunities? What am I even reading

I agree with Scase here. Barnes has his flaws, but in terms of Defense he is way higher than RJ. And when Scase & I agree on something, you can damn be sure its true.

In terms of passing Barnes is the better passer of the two, with the exception of Poeltl. RJ & Poeltl play better together than Barnes & Poeltl. But that is a specific thing not an overall skill assesment. Skillwise, as i said Barnes is the better passer.

I think it is more being the "better passer", it is more about who creates better for others, which leads to result. Maybe Barnes is the better passer (and higher turnover %). Certainly the defense would be better for Barnes, and he has size, which also resulted in better rebounding (offensive rebounding in particular), however, Barrett is shooting better from 3s, and half court offense (or I based on shot clock 18 seconds to 7 seconds), where Barrett has a slight advantage.

Overall, they seem to be pretty much the same tier, their rank isn't that big of a gap.

[Scase]

I don't believe you have watched a single Raptors game in the last 4 years if this is your argument.

You claim Scottie has no defensive versatility, in spite of the multitude of stats that show otherwise. But ignoring all that, arguing defensive capabilities, in a discussion about RJ being better is hilarious. RJ is and always has been a net negative defender, if Scottie isn't versatile, RJ isn't even an NBA level defender lol.

And his playmaking isn't creating opportunities? What am I even reading

I agree with Scase here. Barnes has his flaws, but in terms of Defense he is way higher than RJ. And when Scase & I agree on something, you can damn be sure its true.

In terms of passing Barnes is the better passer of the two, with the exception of Poeltl. RJ & Poeltl play better together than Barnes & Poeltl. But that is a specific thing not an overall skill assesment. Skillwise, as i said Barnes is the better passer.

I think it is more being the "better passer", it is more about who creates better for others, which leads to result. Maybe Barnes is the better passer (and higher turnover %). Certainly the defense would be better for Barnes, and he has size, which also resulted in better rebounding (offensive rebounding in particular), however, Barrett is shooting better from 3s, and half court offense (or I based on shot clock 18 seconds to 7 seconds), where Barrett has a slight advantage.

Overall, they seem to be pretty much the same tier, their rank isn't that big of a gap.

Barnes is a better and more versatile passer, Barnes creates offensive opportunities that didn't exist, RJ makes passes, there's a difference. It's how FVV can put up a double digit assist game and he's still not a good playmaker, but he's good at finding the "obvious" passes.

If you watch how Scottie plays, he doesn't look for the assist, he looks for whatever leads to the shot, be it directly from his pass or the result of the pass after his pass. Scottie makes plays, RJ makes passes, it's not a knock on RJ, not a lot of people in the NBA can find those opportunities like Scottie can.

And none of this discusses how poorly RJ falls off when Scottie isn't on the court. As for rebounds, RJ should arguably be doing better than Scottie since Scottie spends WAY less time near the rim than RJ does. 0-10 feet RJ takes 63.5% of all his shots there, Scottie takes 43.9%, RJ should be in position to grab more Oboards yet Scottie more than doubles him in them.

RJ is not a bad player, but he is definitely in a different tier than Scottie, all while taking into account 1 guy, has almost 2 full seasons of games less of experience than the other, and is performing better, should say everything.

[brownbobcat]

Sure, Barrett isn't a good defender, so is Barnes. He got blowby on the perimeter rather often, so he was in a free roam. This is pretty much an understanding and agreed to in previous years, his defense is a mix. Not at Barrett bad, but not as "versatile" as someone above claimed.

As for his playmaking, the reality is that Barrett has been providing better numbers in converting into score:
On the NBA stats "pass to" section, Barnes hardly making others shoot over 50%, while Barrett has Poeltl shooting 60%
Barnes: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630567/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=FG_PCT
Barrett: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629628/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=FG_PCT

So much of Barnes playmaking, yet, the result has been Barrett making others more effective in scoring.

Mind you, I watched every single Raptors games on league pass, I DID NOT MISS a single game the last 4 years. I watched them even it was so hard to watch.

I never said Barnes was some sort of OG-level stopper, but he's absolutely more versatile defensively than RJ based on his physical profile alone. Is he much better than RJ skill-wise? No, not really, but RJ is also much less gifted athletically. Scottie could be a deadly #2 on a really good team right now, RJ is a tier lower.

Scottie without any improvement is a Sabonis-tier player, someone that could make 3-4 All Star teams in his career.
RJ without any improvement is more like a broken down Jimmy Butler once he can't guard anymore.

[Pericles]

I believe American media outlets belittle the
Raptors every chance they get because it allows them to
overrepresent major markets in discussion and generate
excitement, while also having the ancillary benefit
of generating indignation amongst Canadians fans- another
form of excitement. Which has worked on me, again, clearly.

Barnes at 40? You’re telling me you put the league in an all nba draft and I could get Barnes in the 40s?

[ontnut]

Norm Powell at 61 is impressive.

Lol higher than any raptor not named Barnes.
Well played Masai.

Omg, give it a rest. Trent didn't put in the work to improve, it happens

lol some people just love holding a grudge

[canada_dry]

In the other thread I said RJ is underrated.

Now indeed he is overrated....lol

Life is about balance I guess

More like I feel people are overrating Barnes.
My concern is that we got two DeRozan and no Lowry.

It took Lowry 8 years to post assists numbers that Barnes is this year.

It took Lowry 19 years to post point totals that Barnes is this year.

And Lowry never reached the rebound numbers Barnes has this year.

It also took Lowry 5 years to become a better 3% shooter...he shot 24-28% in years 2, 3 and 4.

Barnes has already shown so much yet we all know he can get so much better. That's what we all should be excited for. It doesn't mean he will be a #1 scoring guy, but he certainly can be like Lowry where he is the most important player....on a very good team. I still think we need another star to pair with Barnes...someone his equal to better that brings different qualities. I like RJ, but he isn't on Barnes level.

We're gonna pretend stats are the same in 2024 as they were in 2014?

Lazy comparison really.



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