Vuc Trade Thread

[Dez]

Schroder was also playing fantastic this year, 18 ppg 7 apg, 39% 3P shooting, leading BRK to a much higher seeding than expected. Very similar situation to Vuc. They got net two 2nd rounders for him.

Schroder is over 30, a known quantity so everyone expects him to normalize. No defense. Vuc also has all those checkmarks. And while no defense is normal for a PG, it's actually team crippling for your center.

It's not remotely close to what Schroder is worth by his current play, but BRK probably knows he's helping them win too many games and he's going to normalize after this season, if not later this season. We're also in the same situation.

What I worry about is that this is just Niko Mirotic 2.0. In desperation to extract some value from Niko who was playing light out in his last season with us, we got a 1st rounder that ended up being nothing and won far too many games in a draft where we were 3 L's away from having DAL's or ATL's pick and the opportunity to draft Luka. The value we got from winning those extra games ended up being Pick #22: Chandler Hutchison. Even if we picked really well in the 20s range like Shamet, Robert Williams, or Mo Wagner they are all still roleplayers at the end of the day.

Exactly. BKN will now out tank us.

We must move Zach, Coby or Vuc immediately. The other two at the deadline if we are keeping our pick.

If we don’t then we will have too many wins when all the other teams are trying tank. BKN has won too much early so they are getting ahead of the tank now to even things out.

You want to tank, I'm good with that, but AK is about maximizing the value of his assets and isn't going to take trades without a meaningful asset (i.e. not 2nds) unless and until he's convinced that's all he's gonna get...so 11th pick will go to SAS.

When has he maximised the value of his assets?

[2weekswithpay]

Exactly. BKN will now out tank us.

We must move Zach, Coby or Vuc immediately. The other two at the deadline if we are keeping our pick.

If we don’t then we will have too many wins when all the other teams are trying tank. BKN has won too much early so they are getting ahead of the tank now to even things out.

You want to tank, I'm good with that, but AK is about maximizing the value of his assets and isn't going to take trades without a meaningful asset (i.e. not 2nds) unless and until he's convinced that's all he's gonna get...so 11th pick will go to SAS.

When has he maximised the value of his assets?

The last in-season trade was the Vuc trade right? So never. Didn't even pull the trigger on trading an expiring Drummond for some seconds.

[Chi town]

You want to tank, I'm good with that, but AK is about maximizing the value of his assets and isn't going to take trades without a meaningful asset (i.e. not 2nds) unless and until he's convinced that's all he's gonna get...so 11th pick will go to SAS.

When has he maximised the value of his assets?

The last in-season trade was the Vuc trade right? So never. Didn't even pull the trigger on trading an expiring Drummond for some seconds.

He only holds onto his assets until they depreciate into their bottom out value.

Selling Vuc for a couple 2nds would actually be progress.

[Infinity2152]

Calling healthy starting Lonzo Ball a role player is a reach. He was arguably the most important player on the team, and we see the evidence. We could have lost Zach or Debo for the same amount of time, and been a better team with Ball playing 34 minutes. Be like the Warriors losing Draymond Green for 3 years, but worse because no Zach ain't Steph. Can't minimize Ball's value to the team, we lost the most or at least second most important player for years. Most contenders are play in teams if that happens. I know AK was supposed to magically replace him for cheap while still paying his contract, but realistically we've been treading water till this $20 mill hole gets filled. All the shuffling around in the world wasn't going to fix that. We had no picks or cap at that point. He took a shot and missed, it takes years to recover from that. Pretty much every single one of our players trade value was lower last year than it is this year, except maybe Pat. Zach was injured, Vuc was shooting poorly, Pat was iffy, not much room to trade without losing.

They have a chance to change opinion's right now, but this offseason will be when things really shake up. Coincidentally, Ball's $20 mill is gone.

[Dez]

Calling healthy starting Lonzo Ball a role player is a reach. He was arguably the most important player on the team, and we see the evidence. We could have lost Zach or Debo for the same amount of time, and been a better team with Ball playing 34 minutes. Be like the Warriors losing Draymond Green for 3 years, but worse because no Zach ain't Steph. Can't minimize Ball's value to the team, we lost the most or at least second most important player for years. Most contenders are play in teams if that happens. I know AK was supposed to magically replace him for cheap while still paying his contract, but realistically we've been treading water till this $20 mill hole gets filled. All the shuffling around in the world wasn't going to fix that. We had no picks or cap at that point. He took a shot and missed, it takes years to recover from that. Pretty much every single one of our players trade value was lower last year than it is this year, except maybe Pat. Zach was injured, Vuc was shooting poorly, Pat was iffy, not much room to trade without losing.

They have a chance to change opinion's right now, but this offseason will be when things really shake up. Coincidentally, Ball's $20 mill is gone.

Ball is a role-player, an elite one but a role-player nonetheless. The Bulls were never a contender, that was clear.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say we would've been better without Zach or DeRozan playing instead of Ball. Who is scoring for the Bulls? We'd average about 30 points a game.

[sco]

Calling healthy starting Lonzo Ball a role player is a reach. He was arguably the most important player on the team, and we see the evidence. We could have lost Zach or Debo for the same amount of time, and been a better team with Ball playing 34 minutes. Be like the Warriors losing Draymond Green for 3 years, but worse because no Zach ain't Steph. Can't minimize Ball's value to the team, we lost the most or at least second most important player for years. Most contenders are play in teams if that happens. I know AK was supposed to magically replace him for cheap while still paying his contract, but realistically we've been treading water till this $20 mill hole gets filled. All the shuffling around in the world wasn't going to fix that. We had no picks or cap at that point. He took a shot and missed, it takes years to recover from that. Pretty much every single one of our players trade value was lower last year than it is this year, except maybe Pat. Zach was injured, Vuc was shooting poorly, Pat was iffy, not much room to trade without losing.

They have a chance to change opinion's right now, but this offseason will be when things really shake up. Coincidentally, Ball's $20 mill is gone.

Ball is a role-player, an elite one but a role-player nonetheless. The Bulls were never a contender, that was clear.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say we would've been better without Zach or DeRozan playing instead of Ball. Who is scoring for the Bulls? We'd average about 30 points a game.

I agree that we needed both Zach and Demar, but Ball added the defense and ball sharing that was key. On that concept though (and back to Vuc), I'm not at all sure that us just dumping Vuc will result in any more losses with Smith stepping in. He provides a much needed balance to the starting line-up. We'd need to upgrade our backup situation, although Sanogo would probably be better than he's shown with a regular role.

Back off topic, I am finding myself really wanting to keep Ball if his legs stay structurally sound this season. His defense, passing and 3 ball are so good that, again if he can make it through the long season intact, I'd be willing to try to resign him for what could be a pretty reasonable deal.

[Guru]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

[sco]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Or it means that they couldn't get there with GS, who went another direction, but I like your call better!

[Guru]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Or it means that they couldn't get there with GS, who went another direction, but I like your call better!

Very possibly.

[drosestruts]

I think the biggest issue with trading Vuc is that I don't think any team will be singularly focused on Vuc. If a team needs a center they're going to want to compare/contrast the asking price for Vuc, Valancunias, Olynyk, and Robert Williams

What we need is a team that wants that center support now, who isn't comfortable waiting till the deadline.

I'm not sure such a team exists - though I would have thought that the Warriors or Lakers might qualify.

[Red8911]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

[sco]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

I think there was good logic around expecting a trade yesterday/today with the 12/15 deadline passing that brings a bunch of guys into the available assets bucket...if you wanted to keep your guy who you were close to trading out, saying he's sick is a safe way to do it because it doesn't call injury questions into play. If he plays tonight, we can safely assume that no deal is close.

[Guru]

I think the biggest issue with trading Vuc is that I don't think any team will be singularly focused on Vuc. If a team needs a center they're going to want to compare/contrast the asking price for Vuc, Valancunias, Olynyk, and Robert Williams

What we need is a team that wants that center support now, who isn't comfortable waiting till the deadline.

I'm not sure such a team exists - though I would have thought that the Warriors or Lakers might qualify.

Griz?

[jnrjr79]

I think the biggest issue with trading Vuc is that I don't think any team will be singularly focused on Vuc. If a team needs a center they're going to want to compare/contrast the asking price for Vuc, Valancunias, Olynyk, and Robert Williams

What we need is a team that wants that center support now, who isn't comfortable waiting till the deadline.

I'm not sure such a team exists - though I would have thought that the Warriors or Lakers might qualify.

There is a good trade deep dive article by Zach Kram at The Ringer that makes this sort of a point. Basically, there are a good handful of veteran 5s that project to be available and only a handful of teams that will need a center, so that may keep the demand/price down for Vooch and other Cs.

IMO, he gets traded, but perhaps the Bulls don't get the draft capital they are shooting for.

[Red8911]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

I think there was good logic around expecting a trade yesterday/today with the 12/15 deadline passing that brings a bunch of guys into the available assets bucket...if you wanted to keep your guy who you were close to trading out, saying he's sick is a safe way to do it because it doesn't call injury questions into play. If he plays tonight, we can safely assume that no deal is close.

Highly doubt they lied about him being sick.

[Muzbar]

Vuc is probable for tonight, I am assuming that this is them calling other teams bluff on the 1st. Lets see if things heat up by gametime.

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

I think there was good logic around expecting a trade yesterday/today with the 12/15 deadline passing that brings a bunch of guys into the available assets bucket...if you wanted to keep your guy who you were close to trading out, saying he's sick is a safe way to do it because it doesn't call injury questions into play. If he plays tonight, we can safely assume that no deal is close.

There's equal logic to think he also won't be traded anytime soon. Because AKME.

I think it was all coincidental, Vuc was actually unwell but it just happened to be on the day most trade restrictions were lifted.

Vuc will likely play today, help the Bulls to another easy win (the Raptors are rubbish without Barnes) and the Bulls get another step closer to looking like a play-in team (again).

I honestly would not be surprised if the Bulls did absolutely nothing once again this year.

[sco]

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

I think there was good logic around expecting a trade yesterday/today with the 12/15 deadline passing that brings a bunch of guys into the available assets bucket...if you wanted to keep your guy who you were close to trading out, saying he's sick is a safe way to do it because it doesn't call injury questions into play. If he plays tonight, we can safely assume that no deal is close.

There's equal logic to think he also won't be traded anytime soon. Because AKME.

I think it was all coincidental, Vuc was actually unwell but it just happened to be on the day most trade restrictions were lifted.

Vuc will likely play today, help the Bulls to another easy win (the Raptors are rubbish without Barnes) and the Bulls get another step closer to looking like a play-in team (again).

I honestly would not be surprised if the Bulls did absolutely nothing once again this year.

True enough.

[Infinity2152]

Calling healthy starting Lonzo Ball a role player is a reach. He was arguably the most important player on the team, and we see the evidence. We could have lost Zach or Debo for the same amount of time, and been a better team with Ball playing 34 minutes. Be like the Warriors losing Draymond Green for 3 years, but worse because no Zach ain't Steph. Can't minimize Ball's value to the team, we lost the most or at least second most important player for years. Most contenders are play in teams if that happens. I know AK was supposed to magically replace him for cheap while still paying his contract, but realistically we've been treading water till this $20 mill hole gets filled. All the shuffling around in the world wasn't going to fix that. We had no picks or cap at that point. He took a shot and missed, it takes years to recover from that. Pretty much every single one of our players trade value was lower last year than it is this year, except maybe Pat. Zach was injured, Vuc was shooting poorly, Pat was iffy, not much room to trade without losing.

They have a chance to change opinion's right now, but this offseason will be when things really shake up. Coincidentally, Ball's $20 mill is gone.

Ball is a role-player, an elite one but a role-player nonetheless. The Bulls were never a contender, that was clear.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say we would've been better without Zach or DeRozan playing instead of Ball. Who is scoring for the Bulls? We'd average about 30 points a game.

So all the time Zach has missed, have we gone down to 30 pts a game? He played 25 games last season, AND we didn't have Ball's points. Mind you Ball was averaging 13/gm so replace Zach or Debo's 24 with Ball's 13, add in the fact Zach, Debo and Vuc (2 of the 3) would have more shot opportunities and definitely would have taken them. Then add in the fact that the offense would have been much more efficient. If we lost Zach or Debo, we still have 2 other guys easily able to average 20pts or more. Imagine Ball's scoring would have gone up too. This isn't even considering the fact that Ball is a much stronger rebounder, so more offensive opportunities, much better passer so more assisted shots, and much better defender. So what was Ball's role then, best passer, playmaker, defender and three point shooter and one of the best rebounders (he was shooting 42% from 3 on 7 attempts per game when he got hurt: Debo 35% 2 attempts, Vuc 31% 4.5 attempts, Lavine 39% 7 attempts)? Sounds like a lot of roles. Who else on the team is contributing more all around? If he's replacing Debo, offensive pace is much faster and we're shooting far more threes.

We had three scoring All-stars with crap defense, losing one of them in place of our best defender, playmaker, passer, AND one of the best shooters seems a no brainer. He made the whole defense work. That's half the game. Losing Zach or Debo, our defense probably gets better even if Ball was average defensively, and Coby would have played more minutes at SG and picked up some of that scoring. Maybe I should ask this, was Draymond Green a role player on those Warriors teams before KD? Or one of the 3 most important players on the team? This is like saying Wiggins or Jordan Poole are more important than Draymond, because they score more.

It's wild defense, playmaking and basketball IQ are so minimized, when that's the major complaint about ALL our "All-Stars".

[Guru]

Why you expected Vuc to be traded today ? I haven’t read about any real talks so far. Vuc was sick the other day and now he’s back.

I think there was good logic around expecting a trade yesterday/today with the 12/15 deadline passing that brings a bunch of guys into the available assets bucket...if you wanted to keep your guy who you were close to trading out, saying he's sick is a safe way to do it because it doesn't call injury questions into play. If he plays tonight, we can safely assume that no deal is close.

There's equal logic to think he also won't be traded anytime soon. Because AKME.

I think it was all coincidental, Vuc was actually unwell but it just happened to be on the day most trade restrictions were lifted.

Vuc will likely play today, help the Bulls to another easy win (the Raptors are rubbish without Barnes) and the Bulls get another step closer to looking like a play-in team (again).

I honestly would not be surprised if the Bulls did absolutely nothing once again this year.

Because AKME? They are trying trade him.

It's just coincidental is a possibility sure. But logically it makes sense he was being held out.

The Bulls will trade Vuc and Craig by the trading deadline without any doubt.

[Dez]

Calling healthy starting Lonzo Ball a role player is a reach. He was arguably the most important player on the team, and we see the evidence. We could have lost Zach or Debo for the same amount of time, and been a better team with Ball playing 34 minutes. Be like the Warriors losing Draymond Green for 3 years, but worse because no Zach ain't Steph. Can't minimize Ball's value to the team, we lost the most or at least second most important player for years. Most contenders are play in teams if that happens. I know AK was supposed to magically replace him for cheap while still paying his contract, but realistically we've been treading water till this $20 mill hole gets filled. All the shuffling around in the world wasn't going to fix that. We had no picks or cap at that point. He took a shot and missed, it takes years to recover from that. Pretty much every single one of our players trade value was lower last year than it is this year, except maybe Pat. Zach was injured, Vuc was shooting poorly, Pat was iffy, not much room to trade without losing.

They have a chance to change opinion's right now, but this offseason will be when things really shake up. Coincidentally, Ball's $20 mill is gone.

Ball is a role-player, an elite one but a role-player nonetheless. The Bulls were never a contender, that was clear.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say we would've been better without Zach or DeRozan playing instead of Ball. Who is scoring for the Bulls? We'd average about 30 points a game.

So all the time Zach has missed, have we gone down to 30 pts a game? He played 25 games last season, AND we didn't have Ball's points. Mind you Ball was averaging 13/gm so replace Zach or Debo's 24 with Ball's 13, add in the fact Zach, Debo and Vuc (2 of the 3) would have more shot opportunities and definitely would have taken them. Then add in the fact that the offense would have been much more efficient. If we lost Zach or Debo, we still have 2 other guys easily able to average 20pts or more. Imagine Ball's scoring would have gone up too. This isn't even considering the fact that Ball is a much stronger rebounder, so more offensive opportunities, much better passer so more assisted shots, and much better defender. So what was Ball's role then, best passer, playmaker, defender and three point shooter and one of the best rebounders (he was shooting 42% from 3 on 7 attempts per game when he got hurt: Debo 35% 2 attempts, Vuc 31% 4.5 attempts, Lavine 39% 7 attempts)? Sounds like a lot of roles. Who else on the team is contributing more all around? If he's replacing Debo, offensive pace is much faster and we're shooting far more threes.

We had three scoring All-stars with crap defense, losing one of them in place of our best defender, playmaker, passer, AND one of the best shooters seems a no brainer. He made the whole defense work. That's half the game. Losing Zach or Debo, our defense probably gets better even if Ball was average defensively, and Coby would have played more minutes at SG and picked up some of that scoring. Maybe I should ask this, was Draymond Green a role player on those Warriors teams before KD? Or one of the 3 most important players on the team? This is like saying Wiggins or Jordan Poole are more important than Draymond, because they score more.

It's wild defense, playmaking and basketball IQ are so minimized, when that's the major complaint about ALL our "All-Stars".

You're literally making up skills that Ball doesn't possess to make an argument.

Ball is a good passer in the open court but he really isn't that good in the half court and that's been a knock on him his whole NBA career.

He's also not a good finisher at the rim, outside of his 3 Ball he doesn't really have much else.