Kings/Nets

[LightTheBeam]

Whatever like I said in the beginning we aren’t agreeing.

You have some vision that Carter can start his jump after the shooter jumps and due to his magical superior acceleration close the gap from his hand to the shooters face.

I actually use 3 factors not 1 but believe the delta in acceleration is at best going to close an inch before the shooter release's the ball. Neither of us have actual hard data on that point so we are both arguing belief at this point.

And my belief is you have to have at least average standing reach for the position as opposed to below average standing reach for a point guard.
Carter. 8’2”
NBA Point guards 8’ 2.5”
NBA 2 guard 8’ 6”
Keon Ellis 8’ 6”

It’s not a magical superior acceleration. It’s just physics. If you jump higher than player X. That means you’re exerting more force off the ground than player X hence your accelerating off the floor.

I get your point but what you are missing is the distance gained is the delta in acceleration over the time between when the defensive player starts his jump and the offensive player releases his shot.

To gain the 3 or 4 inches needed to account for the lack of standing reach over a short window of time would take, I believe, a much larger acceleration delta than is reasonable.

I was under the impression that Carter had really good measurables for a smaller guard. More in line with the Derrick Whites/Jrue Holidays of the world.

Carter: 6' 2.25'' / 6' 8.75'' / 193.0 / 22.26

Holiday: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7'' / 199.0 / 19.01

White: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7.5'' / 189.8 / 22.96

He's an inch shorter, but similar weight and a longer wingspan than either had. White/Holiday are particularly interesting because they guard up multiple positions. I mean we all remember Holiday being tasked with Durant?

Long term I think It's Fox, Monk, Carter, Keon sharing the backcourt, and I think you are fine with that. Carter takes the toughest matchup of the 1/2 when he's on the floor. Biggest need is shipping Huerter out for some forward size. Isaac Jones developing into a true backup would be awesome as well.

[JKiddy]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

[bpcox05]

Whatever like I said in the beginning we aren’t agreeing.

You have some vision that Carter can start his jump after the shooter jumps and due to his magical superior acceleration close the gap from his hand to the shooters face.

I actually use 3 factors not 1 but believe the delta in acceleration is at best going to close an inch before the shooter release's the ball. Neither of us have actual hard data on that point so we are both arguing belief at this point.

And my belief is you have to have at least average standing reach for the position as opposed to below average standing reach for a point guard.
Carter. 8’2”
NBA Point guards 8’ 2.5”
NBA 2 guard 8’ 6”
Keon Ellis 8’ 6”

It’s not a magical superior acceleration. It’s just physics. If you jump higher than player X. That means you’re exerting more force off the ground than player X hence your accelerating off the floor.

I get your point but what you are missing is the distance gained is the delta in acceleration over the time between when the defensive player starts his jump and the offensive player releases his shot.

To gain the 3 or 4 inches needed to account for the lack of standing reach over a short window of time would take, I believe, a much larger acceleration delta than is reasonable.

Actually, I’m not missing that.

You just think that delta is significant enough to prevent Carter from contesting opposing SGs jump shots. I don’t.

And this is where it comes back to the film evidence…if what you’re saying is accurate, why do we have plenty of examples where Carter is not only contesting jump shots but blocking jump shots of players with SG size or bigger?

[bpcox05]

It’s not a magical superior acceleration. It’s just physics. If you jump higher than player X. That means you’re exerting more force off the ground than player X hence your accelerating off the floor.

I get your point but what you are missing is the distance gained is the delta in acceleration over the time between when the defensive player starts his jump and the offensive player releases his shot.

To gain the 3 or 4 inches needed to account for the lack of standing reach over a short window of time would take, I believe, a much larger acceleration delta than is reasonable.

I was under the impression that Carter had really good measurables for a smaller guard. More in line with the Derrick Whites/Jrue Holidays of the world.

Carter: 6' 2.25'' / 6' 8.75'' / 193.0 / 22.26

Holiday: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7'' / 199.0 / 19.01

White: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7.5'' / 189.8 / 22.96

He's an inch shorter, but similar weight and a longer wingspan than either had. White/Holiday are particularly interesting because they guard up multiple positions. I mean we all remember Holiday being tasked with Durant?

Long term I think It's Fox, Monk, Carter, Keon sharing the backcourt, and I think you are fine with that. Carter takes the toughest matchup of the 1/2 when he's on the floor. Biggest need is shipping Huerter out for some forward size. Isaac Jones developing into a true backup would be awesome as well.

I think he will claim that the reason why someone like Holiday can defend SGs is because his standing reach is 8’4.5” while Carter’s is 2.5 inches shorter at 8’2”. That point ignores the fact that Holiday has a 34” max vert while Carter has a 42” max vert meaning that Holiday’s max height for contesting shots is 11’2.5” while Carter’s max height for contesting shots is 11’8”.

[LightTheBeam]

I get your point but what you are missing is the distance gained is the delta in acceleration over the time between when the defensive player starts his jump and the offensive player releases his shot.

To gain the 3 or 4 inches needed to account for the lack of standing reach over a short window of time would take, I believe, a much larger acceleration delta than is reasonable.

I was under the impression that Carter had really good measurables for a smaller guard. More in line with the Derrick Whites/Jrue Holidays of the world.

Carter: 6' 2.25'' / 6' 8.75'' / 193.0 / 22.26

Holiday: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7'' / 199.0 / 19.01

White: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7.5'' / 189.8 / 22.96

He's an inch shorter, but similar weight and a longer wingspan than either had. White/Holiday are particularly interesting because they guard up multiple positions. I mean we all remember Holiday being tasked with Durant?

Long term I think It's Fox, Monk, Carter, Keon sharing the backcourt, and I think you are fine with that. Carter takes the toughest matchup of the 1/2 when he's on the floor. Biggest need is shipping Huerter out for some forward size. Isaac Jones developing into a true backup would be awesome as well.

I think he will claim that the reason why someone like Holiday can defend SGs is because his standing reach is 8’4.5” while Carter’s is 2.5 inches shorter at 8’2”. That point ignores the fact that Holiday has a 34” max vert while Carter has a 42” max vert meaning that Holiday’s max height for contesting shots is 11’2.5” while Carter’s max height for contesting shots is 11’8”.

Seems like that's not the end all be all for defense either way. Much more to it. Physical, athletic, and stays in front of his man.

Also davion was like 5'10 on a good day. I dont care what any numbers say. Dude is tiny. He got blocked every time he went to the rim and his 3 was super inconsistent. Cant see that comparison or Carter struggling the same way. Offensively that athleticism is gonna do wonders

[bpcox05]

I was under the impression that Carter had really good measurables for a smaller guard. More in line with the Derrick Whites/Jrue Holidays of the world.

Carter: 6' 2.25'' / 6' 8.75'' / 193.0 / 22.26

Holiday: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7'' / 199.0 / 19.01

White: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7.5'' / 189.8 / 22.96

He's an inch shorter, but similar weight and a longer wingspan than either had. White/Holiday are particularly interesting because they guard up multiple positions. I mean we all remember Holiday being tasked with Durant?

Long term I think It's Fox, Monk, Carter, Keon sharing the backcourt, and I think you are fine with that. Carter takes the toughest matchup of the 1/2 when he's on the floor. Biggest need is shipping Huerter out for some forward size. Isaac Jones developing into a true backup would be awesome as well.

I think he will claim that the reason why someone like Holiday can defend SGs is because his standing reach is 8’4.5” while Carter’s is 2.5 inches shorter at 8’2”. That point ignores the fact that Holiday has a 34” max vert while Carter has a 42” max vert meaning that Holiday’s max height for contesting shots is 11’2.5” while Carter’s max height for contesting shots is 11’8”.

Seems like that's not the end all be all for defense either way. Much more to it. Physical, athletic, and stays in front of his man.

Also davion was like 5'10 on a good day. I dont care what any numbers say. Dude is tiny. He got blocked every time he went to the rim and his 3 was super inconsistent. Cant see that comparison or Carter struggling the same way. Offensively that athleticism is gonna do wonders

You’re right. Standing reach is not the end all be all for contesting shots. There’s many factors and variables the play into it. Sactowndog, however, is fixated on just that one variable which is why disagree.

As for the Davion Mitchell comparison, Carter has 1.5” more standing reach and 4.5” more wingspan. And although Davion didn’t do athletic testing at the combine, I think it’s safe to assume (after watching him play for a few years) that Davion doesn’t have the vertical Carter does (35” standing vert and 42” max vert). Carter is a much more vertical defender than Davion. Davion’s defense is more predicated on his gifts to move laterally (which Carter is also very good at).

[sackings916]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

[mademan]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

[Godaddycurse]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

they owe their 2025 1st to atlanta

[Jkam31]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

Nobody is trading a first for DFS if there gonna talk themselves into a first it would be for Kuzma atleast he has years left on his contract and is on the right side o 30

[LightTheBeam]

What is the trade between SAC and BK?

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

Can't see it. We already owe a pick to ATL for Huerter which was a massive mistake, this would top that.

Schroder who is having a very good season just went for a few 2nds from the Warriors. This has been DFS price all along. Expiring and 2 2nds. Seems like Brooklyn is starting to accept this reality.

[sackings916]

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

Can't see it. We already owe a pick to ATL for Huerter which was a massive mistake, this would top that.

Schroder who is having a very good season just went for a few 2nds from the Warriors. This has been DFS price all along. Expiring and 2 2nds. Seems like Brooklyn is starting to accept this reality.

This is what I was thinking. Or maybe a future protected 1st with the Kings getting a 2nd back?

[DarkXaero]

I think Trey Lyles expiring plus pick(s) for DFS makes sense for both sides.

I could see the Kings being one of the teams who could convince themselves to trade a 1st for DFS if he propels them to the playoffs.

Maybe a lotto protected 1st this year that becomes 2 2nd round picks?

Nobody is trading a first for DFS if there gonna talk themselves into a first it would be for Kuzma atleast he has years left on his contract and is on the right side o 30

DFS is much better than that loser Kuzma. If you don't believe me, you can look up metrics. DFS is top 50 in EPM in the league, Kuzma is 364th...

You don't have to settle for DFS but at least aim higher than Kuzma if you're gonna offer up a first. Contract be damned, the guy is a losing basketball player and he's only 2 years younger than DFS lol.

[Sactowndog]

I get your point but what you are missing is the distance gained is the delta in acceleration over the time between when the defensive player starts his jump and the offensive player releases his shot.

To gain the 3 or 4 inches needed to account for the lack of standing reach over a short window of time would take, I believe, a much larger acceleration delta than is reasonable.

I was under the impression that Carter had really good measurables for a smaller guard. More in line with the Derrick Whites/Jrue Holidays of the world.

Carter: 6' 2.25'' / 6' 8.75'' / 193.0 / 22.26

Holiday: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7'' / 199.0 / 19.01

White: 6' 3.25'' / 6' 7.5'' / 189.8 / 22.96

He's an inch shorter, but similar weight and a longer wingspan than either had. White/Holiday are particularly interesting because they guard up multiple positions. I mean we all remember Holiday being tasked with Durant?

Long term I think It's Fox, Monk, Carter, Keon sharing the backcourt, and I think you are fine with that. Carter takes the toughest matchup of the 1/2 when he's on the floor. Biggest need is shipping Huerter out for some forward size. Isaac Jones developing into a true backup would be awesome as well.

I think he will claim that the reason why someone like Holiday can defend SGs is because his standing reach is 8’4.5” while Carter’s is 2.5 inches shorter at 8’2”. That point ignores the fact that Holiday has a 34” max vert while Carter has a 42” max vert meaning that Holiday’s max height for contesting shots is 11’2.5” while Carter’s max height for contesting shots is 11’8”.

Correct and White at 8’ 5.5” is 3.5 inches longer. I’m ignoring max vert because in your defined close out scenario it is irrelevant. What matters is in the fraction of a second between when the defender starts his jump after the offensive player to when the ball is released how much incremental distance can be made up comparatively. I think it’s less than an inch.