Game 25: Jazz (5-19) @ Clippers (14-12)

[Crunch 99]

[Crunch 99]

Crunch-favorite Kris Dunn is still starting for the Clippers. He only averages 22.5 mpg, but he brings some defensive tone to start the games. I think of his role as somewhat similar to the Hawks' Dyson, bringing defense to the backcourt to allow Harden and Young to focus on running the offense. Dunn is ranked #10 in Est Defensive EPM. The only guard ranked higher is Caruso, who does it against subs and has help from an OKC team with multiple good defensive players.

[Inigo Montoya]

With the way the Jazz turn the ball over and how the guards turn the ball over under a bit of 1-1 pressure defense, I wouldn't be surprised if Dunn ends up with like 7 steals or something.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Probably one of the worst seasons in NBA history unless we get Flagg or Harper.

Lauri and Cody have been huge disappointments and Taylor broke his leg and those were the three most important players on the roster. Kessler has gotten a little better, but still anchors one of the worst defenses in NBA history. I would expect zero players on the team to ever contribute to a Jazz playoff win.

[FJS]

Are you tankers enjoying this season?

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.
Our last drafted all star were 13th and 27th.

We are destroying our culture, and I don't think there's anything positive in tanking. With a lot of luck next year we will be a terrible team again with a future star...

[Inigo Montoya]

We had a 'culture' up until now and yet we've been stuck in no-man's land for a very long time. Yes, a different front office had some bad draft picks in the top 5, but I really don't see an alternative because the Jazz won't land a star in free agency and trading for one is also very hard. Ainge had some good picks in the top 5, let's see what he can do. And yes, I'm enjoying this season, more than I did when we had a team that we all knew was going no where year after year.

[Crunch 99]

I wasn't able to check in on the game until halftime, and found the score a horrific 81-47. Since the game was already decided, I didn't watch the second half. From boxscore, looks like Kris was Well Dunn. Harden had his second highest point total of the season on 88.5 TS%.

The tank is hard to take. Hopefully we get a winner from the draft.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Are you tankers enjoying this season?

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.
Our last drafted all star were 13th and 27th.

We are destroying our culture, and I don't think there's anything positive in tanking. With a lot of luck next year we will be a terrible team again with a future star...

There is no culture to worry about because none of our players are going to be part of the team in five years.

If we had good players we were ruining, then this would be a concern, but all of our young players are bad to irrelevant.

[FJS]

Are you tankers enjoying this season?

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.
Our last drafted all star were 13th and 27th.

We are destroying our culture, and I don't think there's anything positive in tanking. With a lot of luck next year we will be a terrible team again with a future star...

There is no culture to worry about because none of our players are going to be part of the team in five years.

If we had good players we were ruining, then this would be a concern, but all of our young players are bad to irrelevant.

But you can corrupt young players if they are playing with other inept players. Just saying.

And we have gifted several players to get Keyonte, Brice, Hendricks, Cody, Filipowski or Collier. To think any of them will be there in 5 years is a little bit depressing.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Are you tankers enjoying this season?

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.
Our last drafted all star were 13th and 27th.

We are destroying our culture, and I don't think there's anything positive in tanking. With a lot of luck next year we will be a terrible team again with a future star...

There is no culture to worry about because none of our players are going to be part of the team in five years.

If we had good players we were ruining, then this would be a concern, but all of our young players are bad to irrelevant.

But you can corrupt young players if they are playing with other inept players. Just saying.

And we have gifted several players to get Keyonte, Brice, Hendricks, Cody, Filipowski or Collier. To think any of them will be there in 5 years is a little bit depressing.

To be clear, if we get a top level prospect, then I will have major concerns about tanking and the affect it may have on them.

But our young guys are irrelevant so harming their careers doesn't matter to the Jazz.

[Inigo Montoya]

Are you tankers enjoying this season?

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.
Our last drafted all star were 13th and 27th.

We are destroying our culture, and I don't think there's anything positive in tanking. With a lot of luck next year we will be a terrible team again with a future star...

There is no culture to worry about because none of our players are going to be part of the team in five years.

If we had good players we were ruining, then this would be a concern, but all of our young players are bad to irrelevant.

But you can corrupt young players if they are playing with other inept players. Just saying.

And we have gifted several players to get Keyonte, Brice, Hendricks, Cody, Filipowski or Collier. To think any of them will be there in 5 years is a little bit depressing.

But the young players are playing with Markkanen, Sexton, Mills, Clarkson, Collins, etc. All are solid vets and none are inept. I think they set a pretty good example when it comes to professionalism.

Also, look at the Rockets. When John Wall was there he told the young guys that the way they conduct themselves would not be tolerated on any other team and that they'd be out of the league if they were on any other team. They had a very bad culture and yet they kept the young players, brought in vets like VanVleetand Brooks and hired Udoka as a coach and now they are winning and we're not hearing about bad culture anymore.

And if that’s not a good enough example then look at the Spurs who have been sucking for several seasons and also shamelessly tanked and yet no one is talking about bad culture or corrupting young players. If you have a good system around the players and set the right example the players should be fine. Most championship teams sucked for a while until they got their franchise player and then they built around them and gone through losing and yet they were able to not corrupt them and eventually win a ring.

Also, I'm still not seeing a valid alternative other than tanking for the Jazz but that's just my opinion.

[bkohler]

Quick thought on tanking. We're currently 14th in the west; if we decided we were going for it this season (without making any superstar trades, which apparently we attempted to do), which of the teams would we have been better than?

[BigJimFinn]

Quick thought on tanking. We're currently 14th in the west; if we decided we were going for it this season (without making any superstar trades, which apparently we attempted to do), which of the teams would we have been better than?

I don't know what going for it would exactly mean, but if the Jazz had signed and played a competent PG, or even just kept Kris Dunn, and signed one decent 3&D wing, I think they would be above Hornets, Raptors, Pistons and Blazers at least, and headed for another pick in the 7 - 9 range, with little hope of finding a franchise guy. So this approach is infinitely better, even if it's too painful to watch most of the time. I don't think you had much chance to make the playoffs in the west no matter what you tried.

[Inigo Montoya]

If the Jazz decided to 'go for it' without making any superstar trades, they would have had to sign good players\vets in free agency. There wasn't a big selection in the offseason so they would have had to settle for lesser players than usual, commit salary to them for several seasons, and play them over the young players. That would still not be enough to make the playoffs imho. I think they'd win around 32-37 games at most while getting stuck with a lot of mediocre and older players that have no future with the team and whose contracts eliminate much of the Jazz's flexibility to execute trades.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Last time we drafted 3rd we took Kanter. When we drafted 5th Exum.

Good point. That means we are due to hit one big.

Anyway, with the flattened odds, I am not big on tanking, but let's not pretend like the alternative was to be a good team. The alternative was to be slightly less bad and get stuck in no-mans land where we are battling for the play-in, and even if we get in our reward would be to get throttled in the 1st round by an actual good team.

Either way, we are going to be stuck for a while until we get some luck in the draft. We are going to have lots of picks that are mid quality or worse, so we might as well try for a high pick to increase our odds.

It's a bad situation to be in either way, but we are better off than most teams who rebuild without a boatload of picks from other teams.

Winning ten extra games this season might make you feel better, but in all likely hood it just prolongs the bad situation.

Also, the whole "it ruins the culture" is a crock. Almost all of these players will be long gone by the time the team turns around. Jazz fans made the same claim the last time around, and then Gobert earned the starting spot and single-handedly turned the culture around. This is just something people say that are mad about losing.