NBA viewership down

[sikma42]

Let's be honest Jokic is the best player in the league right now. As great as he is he's not really entertaining off the court. Doesn't have a big personality. Not really controversial.


LeBron and Curry are still the headline names, but they are aging and their teams are no longer the best in the league.

For the average fan what's the reason to follow the NBA?

All the younger stars just hoop. Ant is probably the only young guy with personality, but he plays in Minnesota.

There’s nothing wrong with playing in Minnesota. Caitlin Clark got ratings while playing for Iowa and Indiana. The best WR in the NFL plays for Minnesota. The last running back to win MVP played in Minnesota. Kevin Garnett got ratings playing in Minnesota. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were stars playing in Green Bay. Reggie Miller got ratings playing in Indiana. The Kansas City Chiefs are the most popular NFL team and they play in Missouri.

Part of the reason the league is in this mess is because it seems like ESPN only cares about the Lakers and LeBron and they fire Zach Lowe. There’s nothing stopping the league from doing more Ant/Minnesota coverage.

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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[JustBuzzin]

There’s nothing wrong with playing in Minnesota. Caitlin Clark got ratings while playing for Iowa and Indiana. The best WR in the NFL plays for Minnesota. The last running back to win MVP played in Minnesota. Kevin Garnett got ratings playing in Minnesota. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were stars playing in Green Bay. Reggie Miller got ratings playing in Indiana. The Kansas City Chiefs are the most popular NFL team and they play in Missouri.

Part of the reason the league is in this mess is because it seems like ESPN only cares about the Lakers and LeBron and they fire Zach Lowe. There’s nothing stopping the league from doing more Ant/Minnesota coverage.

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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Huh?

He literally beat Jokic's team last season head to head in the playoffs.

Also he's still young. Way too early to be writing him off as a tier 1 guy.

[NZB2323]

Let's be honest Jokic is the best player in the league right now. As great as he is he's not really entertaining off the court. Doesn't have a big personality. Not really controversial.


LeBron and Curry are still the headline names, but they are aging and their teams are no longer the best in the league.

For the average fan what's the reason to follow the NBA?

All the younger stars just hoop. Ant is probably the only young guy with personality, but he plays in Minnesota.

There’s nothing wrong with playing in Minnesota. Caitlin Clark got ratings while playing for Iowa and Indiana. The best WR in the NFL plays for Minnesota. The last running back to win MVP played in Minnesota. Kevin Garnett got ratings playing in Minnesota. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were stars playing in Green Bay. Reggie Miller got ratings playing in Indiana. The Kansas City Chiefs are the most popular NFL team and they play in Missouri.

Part of the reason the league is in this mess is because it seems like ESPN only cares about the Lakers and LeBron and they fire Zach Lowe. There’s nothing stopping the league from doing more Ant/Minnesota coverage.

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

[Hornet Mania]

If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

I think it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The NBA and their media partners never promote small markets, even when they're awesome like your Jokic example, and therefore casuals see no reason to pay those teams any mind. Obviously they're lame, they never get coverage, right?

If the NBA made an effort to push stars/teams in markets outside where ESPN's staff would like to party...err I mean work, the league could surely create interest. We already have dozens of other American pro teams and college programs that reside in small markets yet maintain massive followings. A big part of it is that the NFL doesn't tell its fans Mahomes should get out of KC because it's a cow town, and the NCAA doesn't tell fans UCONN and Alabama are unworthy of top prospects because they're too boring. The NBA **** in its own bed with this style of coverage and now they're laying in it.

It will take focused effort to change the status quo at this point. Like demanding that ESPN/ABC either start covering/hyping Cleveland and OKC equally to their pet teams or else they're not going to be offered a future TV contract. And any personalities who don't like that can take a hike too, they aren't helping sell the product so they're just dead weight. Unfortunately for the NBA they're as far out from new contract talks as they could possibly be, so their leverage is nil for the next few years at least. They needed to do this three years ago, but Silver was huffing copium because tiktoks were blowing up or whatever.

A league where any team can be hyped is far more resilient to change. The NBA was a glass cannon, as soon as the Lakers/Lebron and GSW/Curry became irrelevant as contenders they had no fallback option.

[JustBuzzin]

There’s nothing wrong with playing in Minnesota. Caitlin Clark got ratings while playing for Iowa and Indiana. The best WR in the NFL plays for Minnesota. The last running back to win MVP played in Minnesota. Kevin Garnett got ratings playing in Minnesota. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were stars playing in Green Bay. Reggie Miller got ratings playing in Indiana. The Kansas City Chiefs are the most popular NFL team and they play in Missouri.

Part of the reason the league is in this mess is because it seems like ESPN only cares about the Lakers and LeBron and they fire Zach Lowe. There’s nothing stopping the league from doing more Ant/Minnesota coverage.

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

[sikma42]

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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Huh?

He literally beat Jokic's team last season head to head in the playoffs.

Also he's still young. Way too early to be writing him off as a tier 1 guy.

The Wolves beat the Nuggets. But i don't see him progressing into a top 5 player anymore. Teams started to figure him out and he has some pretty big glaring holes in his game. Just don't see him getting to that top tier level that Lebron, Curry, Harden, KD, Kobe, Wade etc. got to...

Regardless of how old he is, I don't really see people improve in the areas he lacks in (he takes really poor angles on his drives + unable to read defenses and meh passer). Once you set up a capable defense, he can be rendered invisible besides a occasional barrage of 3s.

[NZB2323]

There’s nothing wrong with playing in Minnesota. Caitlin Clark got ratings while playing for Iowa and Indiana. The best WR in the NFL plays for Minnesota. The last running back to win MVP played in Minnesota. Kevin Garnett got ratings playing in Minnesota. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were stars playing in Green Bay. Reggie Miller got ratings playing in Indiana. The Kansas City Chiefs are the most popular NFL team and they play in Missouri.

Part of the reason the league is in this mess is because it seems like ESPN only cares about the Lakers and LeBron and they fire Zach Lowe. There’s nothing stopping the league from doing more Ant/Minnesota coverage.

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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If Ant is tier 1, what tier is a 40 year old LeBron in? What tier is Bronny in?

You can market a tier 2 guy. It wasn’t that long ago that Isiah Thomas was “The King of the 4th” in Boston. Iverson, Tmac, and Vince Carter weren’t as good as Duncan, Shaq, and KG, but they were marketed and popular. No one was complaining saying Tmac plays in Orlando so you can’t market him because no one cares about that team.

Maybe if the league marketed Ant, Ja, and SGA and made it seem like you had to watch these guys every night that would help.

[JustBuzzin]

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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Huh?

He literally beat Jokic's team last season head to head in the playoffs.

Also he's still young. Way too early to be writing him off as a tier 1 guy.

The Wolves beat the Nuggets. But i don't see him progressing into a top 5 player anymore. Teams started to figure him out and he has some pretty big glaring holes in his game. Just don't see him getting to that top tier level that Lebron, Curry, Harden, KD, Kobe, Wade etc. got to...

Regardless of how old he is, I don't really see people improve in the areas he lacks in (he takes really poor angles on his drives + unable to read defenses and meh passer). Once you set up a capable defense, he can be rendered invisible besides a occasional barrage of 3s.

Those guys played with other HOF players lol.

Who's the HOF player playing with Ant?

Towns nah, Randle nah, Gobert hell nah!


Ant will likely get to a big market team and attract other HOF caliber talent to play with him. It's way too early to write him off.

[sikma42]

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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If Ant is tier 1, what tier is a 40 year old LeBron in? What tier is Bronny in?

You can market a tier 2 guy. It wasn’t that long ago that Isiah Thomas was “The King of the 4th” in Boston. Iverson, Tmac, and Vince Carter weren’t as good as Duncan, Shaq, and KG, but they were marketed and popular. No one was complaining saying Tmac plays in Orlando so you can’t market him because no one cares about that team.

Maybe if the league marketed Ant, Ja, and SGA and made it seem like you had to watch these guys every night that would help.

You can definitely market a tier 2 guy. I just don’t know if Ant can be the face of the league or be the reason for some drastic increase in viewership. Just don’t think he is good enough or plays a game that is very interesting (based on the games I’ve seen this year). Sure he is a positive but compared to the past he lacks..he’s no AI

Idk if people like SGA’s game or personality. Maybe if ESPN just starts with some weird sports science propaganda that would help. And the league was marketing Ja hard..he is the one that missed that time and hurt his image.

And on top of all that..the narratives just aren’t there. Can you list the narratives for this year surrounding the top players? What’s the reason to watch?


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[bubonicphoniks]

It's got nothing to do with the stars. In fact I think viewership is down because of the star emphasis. People want to see a team game.

Also the officiating.

[sikma42]

It's got nothing to do with the stars. In fact I think viewership is down because of the star emphasis. People want to see a team game.

Also the officiating.

what is this based on?

[Seabass11]

Change it so that the 3 only counts during the last 2 minutes of each quarter. It will lead to some entertaining comebacks but will de-emphasize the importance of the 3 for the majority of the game. Teams might actually get their identities back

[Jabroni Lames]

It's got nothing to do with the stars. In fact I think viewership is down because of the star emphasis. People want to see a team game.

Also the officiating.

lol. It's literally the exact opposite... on both counts.

1) With Lebron, Steph and KD fading away.... the NBA has no new, exciting young stars that fans can connect with, i.e., the Hollywood star model. David Stern understood and exploited this perfectly.

2) And the new CBA eliminated Super Teams, which fans complain about, but deep down find a lot more compelling than parity. It's a deeper love/hate relationship, which is way better for engagement than indifference, or lukewarm respect/admiration.

[DavidSterned]

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The only thing about Ant is he isn’t good enough on the court. He is a Tier 2 guy.


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Huh?

He literally beat Jokic's team last season head to head in the playoffs.

Also he's still young. Way too early to be writing him off as a tier 1 guy.

Ant is Paul George, dude. Not Tier 1.

[TheGeneral99]

Plenty of great young stars moving forward:

Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Wemby, Tatum, Brown, Ja, Edwards, Barnes, Sengun, Shai, Maxey, Lamelo, Haliburton, Wagner, Banchero etc...

League is in great hands.

[Profound23]

Maybe we need to add a quarter-season tournament, that'll fix things.

[bballfan1three3]

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

Uhhh, ZION????

DUDE WAS HUGE

Everyone forgetting how big zion was supposed to be. He was a HUGE star in high school, Huge star in college, big big star rookie year, then he gained 175 pounds and fell off.

ZION IS THE KEY

[NZB2323]

Being the face of the league is different then being one of the many faces of the NBA.


If Ant were in LA or NY he would be a superstar on and off the court. It's kind of hard to market someone Nationally when the team he plays for nobody really cares to watch every night.

Look at Jokic in Denver. He's the best player in the league by far and he can't even get a Nat'l topic on these debate shows. Everything is still focused on LeBron and Curry.

Market matters when it comes to the NBA sadly.

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

ESPN/NBA marketed Tmac when he played in Orlando.

ESPN/NBA marketed Vince when he played in Toronto.

ESPN/NBA marketed KG when he played in Minnesota.

ESPN/NBA marketed Westbrook when he played in OKC.

ESPN/NBA marketed Reggie Miller when he played in Indiana.

ESPN/NBA marketed the 2002 Kings when they played in Sacramento.

My point is that someone playing in a small market isn’t an excuse to not market them.

[Clemenza]

the 90s wasn't the stone ages. The other leagues (NHL, MLB, Nascar) were much bigger. We had blockbuster, keggers at the power lines, movies, TV, concerts, beach, etc. People have to stop making excuses for the NBA's failing product.

True but the younger kids don't watch sports like how we used to while growing up. Most of us watched NBA, NFL, and MLB religiously, then we tried to emulate them on the playground and on the court. These kids are watching streamers play video games and Youtube, Tik Tok, and want to be influencers. No NBA excuses, but its a much different era now. It was simpler back in the late 80's and 90's.

but they would if the product was better. How do you explain NFL ratings then? Kids will watch what is fun and happening. When I was a kid growing up the NBA was fun because there were titans from the 70s still around (Kareem, Dr. J, Moses, etc) and new faces (Bird, Magic, Isiah, MJ) and the product was at its zenith. Kids would watch if the product was better. The NBA should be garnering attention especially with how much more popular it is overseas but the product stinks and kids aren't interested. Combined with old heads turned off for a variety of valid reasons and that's why ratings are down.

The NFL is America's darling and has the country in a chokehold. But yet the Chiefs win every year and the NFL's games are spread all over multiple platforms: ABC, ESPN, CBS, FOX, NFL Network, Amazon, Peacock, and two Christmas Day games on Netflix this season. The NBA would get blasted for that, but the good ol NFL always gets a pass no matter what. And I don't even believe kids are watching the NFL that much either. It's just that America, especially white America, can't get enough of it. Yeah, the World Series had the Dodgers vs Yankees, but nobody is watching baseball like how we used to watch it as kids. When will the NHL break out?

And I agree that the NBA stars were better back in the day, but that was also the thing that nearly doomed them as Stern, CBS, and later NBC became all things Magic, Bird, and Jordan and then focused/promoted stars instead of teams. Me and a couple of friends had the debate that the NFL blew up and skyrocketed into the behemoth that is it today is when Jordan retired.

Imo, every sport had better stars back in the day. He'll, MLB's stars were right up there with the NBA & NFL stars in the 80's & 90's. The complaints should be all across the board and not just directed at the NBA. The NFL will always get a pass because it's only 16 games, they market teams better(players faces are also hidden with helmets and tons of padding helps it ten fold), and it seems like like Goodell and the league doesn't allow its broadcast partners to rip the league and it's players like the NBA does. Half of TNT's Inside The NBA and ESPN is ripping the league to shreds. For the NFL Green Bay, Wisconsin is the grand and wonderful "Frozen Tundra" and "The house that Lombardi built". Meanwhile SAS is live on air saying he doesn't want to go to Milwaukee to cover a playoff game. He wants to go to Miami, LA, or NYC. As if he doesn't make enough money to go to those cities on his own dime. That the sh*t that's also hurting the league imo. I think the criticism should go all across the board.

[levon]

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

ESPN/NBA marketed Tmac when he played in Orlando.

ESPN/NBA marketed Vince when he played in Toronto.

ESPN/NBA marketed KG when he played in Minnesota.

ESPN/NBA marketed Westbrook when he played in OKC.

ESPN/NBA marketed Reggie Miller when he played in Indiana.

ESPN/NBA marketed the 2002 Kings when they played in Sacramento.

My point is that someone playing in a small market isn’t an excuse to not market them.

The NBA markets Zion and Ant. Eventually they'll market Ja when the gun stuff blows over. It might just be that these guys don't have the historic star potential we think they have, as well as the vast majority of people being distracted by the rest of the world instead of everyone tuning into the same game in the 90s.

People in this thread have to come to terms with the fact that what's generally good for league viewership may not be the same as what you consider good. We're posting on an early 2000s internet forum. To say we're a niche part of NBA fandom would be an understatement.