Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE — Michael Jordan

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Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE — Michael Jordan 

Post#1 » by AEnigma » Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:40 am

General Project Discussion Thread

Discussion and Results from the 2010 Project

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 players and the top 3 offensive and defensive players of 1997-98.

Player of the Year (POY)(5) — most accomplished overall player of that season
Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY)(3) — most accomplished offensive player of that season
Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY)(3) — most accomplished defensive player of that season

Voting will close sometime after 17:30PM PST on Thursday, December 19th. I have no issue keeping it open so long as discussion is strong, but please try to vote within the first three days.

Valid ballots must provide an explanation for your choices that gives us a window into how you thought and why you came to the decisions you did. You can vote for any of the three awards — although they must be complete votes — but I will only tally votes for an award when there are at least five valid ballots submitted for it.

Remember, your votes must be based on THIS season. This is intended to give wide wiggle room for personal philosophies while still providing a boundary to make sure the award can be said to mean something. You can factor things like degree of difficulty as defined by you, but what you can't do is ignore how the player actually played on the floor this season in favor of what he might have done if only...

You may change your vote, but if you do, edit your original post rather than writing, "hey, ignore my last post, this is my real post until I change my mind again.” I similarly ask that ballots be kept in one post rather than making one post for Player of the Year, one post for Offensive Player of the Year, and/or one post for Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to provide your reasoning that way for the sake of discussion, fine, but please keep the official votes themselves in one aggregated post. Finally, for ease of tallying, I prefer for you to place your votes at the beginning of your balloting post, with some formatting that makes them stand out. I will not discount votes which fail to follow these requests, but I am certainly more likely to overlook them.

Contrarian votes can be and have been sincere, but they look a lot more sincere when you take the time to fully present your reasoning rather than transparently pretend nothing is amiss.
Doctor MJ wrote:Vote sincerely. Do not move a player down in your voting to give another player an advantage. I would encourage every voter to give some explanations while they do their voting - but particularly if you have a top 5 that deviates strongly with the norm and you haven't expressed your thoughts on it earlier in the thread. If I'm not satisfied, I may ask you for more of an explanation - and it may come to actually booting people out of the project.

The rules here are that you've got to use the same type of thinking for all 5 votes. I understand putting more thought into #1 than #5, but I don't want PJ Brown votes. Voters do Brown type votes to give a guy an honorable mention. Makes sense if people only care about who finishes 1st, but I've been clear that I want to measure more than that. I've been trying to encourage literal "honorable mentions" to serve that purpose, and I'd ask that people use that as the way they honor guys who did something special but who aren't actually a top 5 guy that year.

There is a significant difference between a properly justified and internally consistent contrarian vote, and a vote whose purpose is to undermine the project itself. Ballots which threaten to do the latter and derail project discussion via blatant vote manipulation are liable to be tossed. If it happens twice, the offending poster will be removed from the project.

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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#2 » by One_and_Done » Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:45 am

I'm wondering why I shouldn't put Duncan #1 tbh. He was still a rookie, and he was better in year 2, but the competition this year is so weak it feels like he still has a case. He's my no brainer pick as #1 next year for sure.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#3 » by trelos6 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:06 am

OPOY

1.Shaquille O’Neal. 30.1 pp75, +6.3 rTS%. Team offense was +6.8 rOrtg. Playoffs saw Shaq up his scoring volume to 32 pp75 and efficiency to +8 rTS%. Shaq took a lot of free throws. And he hit them at 50%. Still, his rTS% was pretty good.

2.Michael Jordan. 30 pp75 on +0.9 rTS%. Team offense was +2.6 rOrtg. Playoffs he was 33.37 pp75 on +2.1 rTS%.

3.Karl Malone. 29.2 pp75 on +7.3 rTS%. Team offense was +7.6 rOrtg. Playoffs he was 27.8 pp75 on +1 rTS%. The third of the big scoring 3. I can’t get behind Stockton, Payton or any other playmaker this year, as they just don’t have the scoring volume of the big 3.

DPOY

1.David Robinson. Mutombo won DPOY, he has the best advanced stats. He blocked 3.4 shots a game. But Hawks were mid-pack on D. Mookie and Dikembe should’ve carried to a top 5 defense. Yeah, D Rob was playing with Duncan. Must be nice to have 2 ELITE defenders on the same team. Anyways, D Rob is back and still great on D.

2.Dikembe Mutombo. Still very good, and I can’t give 2 Spurs 1/2.

3.Tim Duncan. Gets the nod over Hakeem. Spurs were a great defense in 1998.

POY

1.Michael Jordan. Lots of solid candidates, but none stand out. +4.61 OPIPM. +0.65 DPIPM. +5.26 PIPM. 20.40 Wins Added.

2.David Robinson. Still a good scorer. 26.1 pp75 on +5.7 rTS%. Team offense wasn’t great, but they were built on defense. +2.66 OPIPM, +3.03 DPIPM. +5.69 PIPM. 15.17 Wins Added. I’ve already called him my DPOY. Still more valuable than Duncan, but that will change pretty quickly.

3.Karl Malone. Malone over Shaq for games played. Both were offensive powerhouses, and both provided a little value defensively. +5.3 OPIPM, +0.41 DPIPM. +5.71 PIPM. 19.73 Wins Added.

4.Shaquille O’Neal. +3.94 OPIPM, +0.77 DPIPM. +4.71 PIPM. 12.32 Wins Added. Kept up his efficiency in the playoffs, but I can’t justify him over Malone.

5.Tim Duncan. 22 pp75 on +5.3 rTS%. Already elite defensively. +1.54 OPIPM. +2.22 DPIPM. +3.77 PIPM. 14.89 Wins Added
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#4 » by B-Mitch 30 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:43 am

Before I get into my picks here’s a list of this season’s leaders in “last opportunity shots”:

Spoiler:
Tim Hardaway 101 Attempts 34.7%
Michael Jordan 78 Attempts 37.2%
Gary Payton 73 Attempts 38.4%
Stephon Marbury 69 Attempts 34.8%
Ray Allen 63 Attempts 28.6%
Michael Finley 60 Attempts 35%
Kobe Bryant 60 Attempts 23.3%
Travis Best 58 Attempts 31%
Tony Delk 57 Attempts 33.3%
Steve Smith 56 Attempts 39.3%
Allen Iverson 55 Attempts 40%
Damon Stoudamire 54 Attempts 29.6%
Darrick Martin 52 Attempts 25%
Mookie Blaylock 52 Attempts 19.2%
Howard Eisley 51 Attempts 31.4%
Terrell Brandon 48 Attempts 22.9%
Grant Hill 46 Attempts 39.1%
Doug Christie 45 Attempts 37.8%
John Starks 45 Attempts 28.9%
Shareef Abdur-Rahim 44 Attempts 50%


Offensive Player of the Year

1. Karl Malone

As good as Jordan still was this season, MJ kind of tanked his eFG by shooting poorly from three. Unlike last year, we also can’t ascribe too much of Malone’s success to Stockton, due to the latter getting microfracture surgery and missing 18 games. Despite my dislike of Malone, I don’t see that many arguments against him this time.

2. Michael Jordan

Though he had his shooting woes, Jordan’s true shooting was still nice, and he had a better plus-minus than Malone, despite Scottie missing half the season. His playoff run was also good, as he greatly increased his volume while keeping his efficiency the same, and of course hit his last game winner as a Bull in the Finals to win it. As MJ’s place in this project comes to an end, I think it’s nice to remember that, regardless of his foibles, he certainly earned his place as one of the greatest basketball players ever. I think it’s beautiful that the most enduring image of his career is hitting arguably the most legacy defining shot ever, virtually everyone in the opposing crowd watching in awe, as the man made his last great mark on the game.



Michael Jordan wrote:"I've missed over 9,000 shots in my career.
I've lost almost 300 games.
26 times I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed.
I've failed over and over and over again in my life.
And that is why I succeed.”


3. Reggie Miller

With the three-point line now back at its old spot, Reggie reassumes his throne as the best shooter in the league, after a down year last season. In addition to his great shooting, Miller had one of the NBA’s best plus-minuses, and came closer to beating the Bulls than even the Jazz did.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Jason Kidd

Kidd has a great defensive reputation, but I imagine a lot of posters are surprised to see him here. My reasons for this pick are simple; many of the other top defensive teams from this season either have big holes, or can’t ascribe too much of their success to any one player. The Suns on the other hand, can. They were the only team in the top 11 of eFG, turnover percentage, defensive rebounding, and fouls per field goal attempt. Of Phoenix’s only three players who appeared in more than 68 games and averaged over 29.5 minutes per game, Kidd was tied with Antonio McDyess for most defensive rebounds, and 6th in the NBA in steals. He also played 8 more minutes per game than McDyess, while having a plus-minus higher by 123, despite not being a very efficient scorer.

2. Tim Duncan

The Spurs defense was also great this year, other than being dead last in turnover percentage. While David Robinson returning from injury obviously played a big part, I don’t think it’s a coincidence this improvement occurred after they drafted the best college player in the nation, who would go on to lead plenty of elite defenses after Robinson retired and become one of the greatest players of all time.

3. Dennis Rodman

After the Suns, the Bulls were probably the most well rounded defensive team in the league. Considering all the time Scottie missed, I think the credit can mostly go to Rodman, who played in 80 games for the first time since 1994 and led the NBA in defensive rebounding percentage.

Player of the Year

1. Karl Malone

Malone was the best regular season player in my opinion, and certainly played well enough to give the Jazz a chance to win the Finals, though the Bulls defense and MJ’s game six performance were just too much.

2. Michael Jordan

MJ was no longer as unstoppable as he used to be, but he managed to rise to the occasion and go out on a high note (ignoring the Wizards). He was also in the top 4 of plus-minus, and arguably the best “last opportunity shot” maker in the league.

3. Reggie Miller

Reggie was the best shooter in basketball, and had a great playoff run that nearly beat the eventual champion. Larry Bird, who was his coach this year also said he was a good defender, if that means anything.

4. Tim Duncan

In addition to being one of the NBA’s best defenders, Timmy averaged an excellent 21 points per game and had a nice playoff run before losing to the Jazz. Definitely one of the best rookie seasons ever.

5. Jason Kidd

Besides being one of the best defensive guards ever, Kidd was 2nd in assists while playing on a 56 win team that had a winning percentage of 34.7% before he joined them in the February of last year.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#5 » by One_and_Done » Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:51 am

If you built a team around 98 Duncan or Reggie, it's fairly clear which one would win more; the former and it's not close.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#6 » by capfan33 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:07 am

One_and_Done wrote:If you built a team around 98 Duncan or Reggie, it's fairly clear which one would win more; the former and it's not close.


For like the 8th time that's explicitly not what this project is about.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#7 » by One_and_Done » Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:19 am

capfan33 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:If you built a team around 98 Duncan or Reggie, it's fairly clear which one would win more; the former and it's not close.


For like the 8th time that's explicitly not what this project is about.

For like the 8th time I wish people would read what I was saying properly. I am not saying you pick Duncan over Reggie in 98 because Duncan will give you 19 years of success. That's irrelevant to 1998. I am saying you take Duncan because if you put them both on a similarly good team in 1998 then Duncan gets you more wins. In 1998. Because he is more impactful. In 1998.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#8 » by Djoker » Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:50 am

Even though it's more debatable this year, I still have MJ at #1. When it comes down to it, the Bulls played with a +6.4 SRS (59-win pace) without Pippen for 38 games with MJ doing the heavy lifting. Malone was much better in the PS than in 1997 but I still can't see him as actually better considering what happened in the Finals. And Shaq would have a case but he just missed too many games and then got really exposed by the Utah P&R in the WCF. This season, MJ is not clearly the best player in the world (though still has a good case) but other candidates to me just have more weaknesses than he does.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#9 » by capfan33 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:06 am

One_and_Done wrote:
capfan33 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:If you built a team around 98 Duncan or Reggie, it's fairly clear which one would win more; the former and it's not close.


For like the 8th time that's explicitly not what this project is about.

For like the 8th time I wish people would read what I was saying properly. I am not saying you pick Duncan over Reggie in 98 because Duncan will give you 19 years of success. That's irrelevant to 1998. I am saying you take Duncan because if you put them both on a similarly good team in 1998 then Duncan gets you more wins. In 1998. Because he is more impactful. In 1998.


I’m saying Duncan being better in a vacuum in 1998 doesn’t necessitate him being voted over Reggie, as the project is not about who the best player in a vacuum was in a given year. It definitely is a point in favor, but it’s just that, a point.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#10 » by One_and_Done » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:19 am

capfan33 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
capfan33 wrote:
For like the 8th time that's explicitly not what this project is about.

For like the 8th time I wish people would read what I was saying properly. I am not saying you pick Duncan over Reggie in 98 because Duncan will give you 19 years of success. That's irrelevant to 1998. I am saying you take Duncan because if you put them both on a similarly good team in 1998 then Duncan gets you more wins. In 1998. Because he is more impactful. In 1998.


I’m saying Duncan being better in a vacuum in 1998 doesn’t necessitate him being voted over Reggie, as the project is not about who the best player in a vacuum was in a given year. It definitely is a point in favor, but it’s just that, a point.

If you were better in 98, and there was no injury impeding you, what else is there to consider? I don't care about rings or narratives, so for me who was better in that year is basically the only criteria.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#11 » by DirtyDez » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:58 am

Malone until the steal & shot. Thing is the Bulls had to win game 6 with Pippen injured and Rodman “out to pasture”. MJ scored 8 points in the final 2:07 to win by one including stripping Malone down 1pt. We all laugh at the notion of “willing” a team to a title but he literally did it.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#12 » by Narigo » Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:36 am

For right now... I'm going with
1.. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. David Robinson
4. Tim Duncan
5. Shaquille O'Neal

I have Jordan slightly ahead of Malone. The Jazz performing really well with Stockton playing less was impressive but Jordans play with Pippen missing half the season and things going on in the locker room such as Pippen contract and Krause intending to breaking up the team after the season was much more impressive. Also Pippen was having back issues in the finals which pretty much ended his prime.

Robinson over Duncan for right now as well. Duncan probably was better offensively but Robinson was the better defender. Can see both arguments on who was the best player on the Spurs

Shaq probably would have been top 3 based on regular season and playoffs but he missed a lot of games. Shaq was abused in the pick and roll which attributed to the Lakers losing against the Jazz
Narigo's Fantasy Team

PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF:
PF: James Worthy
C: Tim Duncan

BE: Robert Horry
BE:
BE:
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#13 » by One_and_Done » Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:56 am

The Spurs knew Duncan was better than D Rob in training camp of his rookie year.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#14 » by OhayoKD » Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:09 am

Narigo wrote:For right now... I'm going with
1.. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. David Robinson
4. Tim Duncan
5. Shaquille O'Neal

Robinson over Duncan for right now as well. Duncan probably was better offensively but Robinson was the better defender. Can see both arguments on who was the best player on the Spurs

Shaq probably would have been top 3 based on regular season and playoffs but he missed a lot of games

Weird how Duncan averaged way more minutes if Drob was arguably better
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#15 » by OhayoKD » Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:17 am

DirtyDez wrote:Malone until the steal & shot. Thing is the Bulls had to win game 6 with Pippen injured and Rodman “out to pasture”. MJ scored 8 points in the final 2:07 to win by one including stripping Malone down 1pt. We all laugh at the notion of “willing” a team to a title but he literally did it.

Yes because touching the ball last means you were the only one who contributed to the basket.
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#16 » by OhayoKD » Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:45 am

Kola's Ballot:

Spoiler:
1998

Arc Highlight - Conference Crossover - Battle 6

Mailman neared becoming Ringman. Utah School led Chicago School away. Battle 7 would be hosted in Utah without Scottie’s hoop sorcery. The Mailman was about to deliver. But then the King of Buckets stole the ball and chucked once more: “Let’s end this cycle of misses”. SWISH!

Shaquille O’Neal - (Grain Version) Yorozu
Grade: Special 1
Hoop Expansion - Post-Bound Sphere

Ball Techniques
+ Humpty Bumpty; Reverse Ball Technique - Gravitational Collapse
+ Foul Furnace
+ Bucket-Getter - Special Grade
+ Rim-Protector - Grade 1 2
+ Stoppah - Grade 3 4
+ Board-Bringer - Special Grade 1

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for everyone acting like he deserved the 2001 MVP, everyone will also act like Hakeem was the Shaq-stopper

Key Chapters:
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Portland School
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Seattle School
- Hooper Burnout vs Utah School - Rim-Protector - Grade 3
- Sealed for 22 battles

Tim Duncan - (Grain Version) Hakari
Grade: Special 2
Hoop Expansion - Fundamental Fun

Ball Techniques:
+ Two-Way Tower
+ Banker Bludgeon
+ Minute Monopoly
+ Post Pendulum; Reverse Ball Technique ; Triple-team tempter
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 4
+ Rim-Protection - Special Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Grade Special Grade 2

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for people pretending he averaged a quadruple double, Malone and Iverson will steal 2 of his MVPs

Key Chapters:
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Utah School - Bucket-Getter - Grade 3; Stoppah - Grade 1; Missing Mail

Karl Malone - (Grain Version) Mei Mei
Grade: [b]2
Hoop Expansion - Mailing Children

+ Barely Dunk-man
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Rim-Protector - Grade 2
+ Stoppah - Grade 3
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 2

Baller Vow:
In exchange for not going to jail, Karl Malone will have to spend his prime with John Stockton and Jerry Sloan

Key Chapters:
+ Made Conference Cross-over
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Los Angeles School - Rim-Protector - Grade 1
- Hooper Burnout vs San Antonio School - Bucket-Getter -Grade 3; Stoppah - Grade 4

Micheal Jordan - (Grain Version) Kashimo
Grade: Special 2[/b]
Hoop Expansion - Collinearity Merchant

Ball Techniques:
+ Cursed Chucker
+ Mid-Range Kitchen
+ Gifted Gambler; Reverse Ball-Technique; Fastbreak Frenzy
+ Bucket-Getter - Special Grade Grade 2
+ Stoppah - Grade 2 3

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for a fake DPOY, Jordan can only win playoff games with Pippen

Key Chapters:
+ Chicago School wins Conference Cross-over
- Hoop Flash Flurry vs Utah School - Stoppah - Grade 2
- Hoop Flash Flurry vs Indiana School - Bucket-Getter - Grade 1
- Hooper Burnout vs New Jersey School - Bucket Getter - Grade 4
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Washington School - Bucket-Getter - Special Grade


Hakeem Olajuwon - (Grain Version) Maki
Grade: Special 2
Hoop Expansion - Center Cemetery

Ball Techniques
+ Russellian Remix
+ Post-up Nightmare; Reverse Ball-Technique - Dream Shot; Maximum Output - A Three-Man’s Dream
+ A Dreamer’s Postseason - 2 arc use
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 3
+ Rim-Protection - Special Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Special Grade; Reverse Ball-Technique - Running Robinsons - 1 arc use 1
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Baller Vow
+ In exchange for dominating Micheal Jordan in Baller-Battles, Hakeem may never face MJ in a battle that matters
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#17 » by penbeast0 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:59 pm

Four top teams this year, Chicago, Utah, LA, and Seattle with Indiana, Phoenix, and San Antonio also contending. Chicago won it with close wins over Utah in the finals and Indiana in the ECF. Lakers, Seattle, Phoenix, and San Antonio all beaten convincingly in the playoffs by one of the other top contenders. LA is clearly Shaq's team, Seattle replaced Kemp with Vin Baker without losing a beat led by Gary Payton, in Phoenix Kidd as usual seems to have more defensive impact than offensive, Reggie gets the nod for his spacing and efficiency in Indiana, San Antonio had Robinson and rookie Tim Duncan with similar numbers though Duncan played more minutes, Robinson had more defensive impact I believe.

Jordan selected as MVP, Mutombo as DPOY. Jordan was the scoring leader, Rodman rebounding, and Strickland assists. Of the box score compilations, Karl Malone led Win Shares and VORP, David Robinson in Box Score +/-, and Shaq in PER. Both Jordan and Karl Malone have legitimate arguments here. Malone has the better box score thanks to greater efficiency, Jordan won the title. Stockton actually missed a fifth of the season this year, but Pippen missed almost half.

PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. David Robinson
5. Reggie Miller
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#18 » by DirtyDez » Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:50 pm

OhayoKD wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Malone until the steal & shot. Thing is the Bulls had to win game 6 with Pippen injured and Rodman “out to pasture”. MJ scored 8 points in the final 2:07 to win by one including stripping Malone down 1pt. We all laugh at the notion of “willing” a team to a title but he literally did it.

Yes because touching the ball last means you were the only one who contributed to the basket.


Layup, steal, shot is pretty straightforward.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#19 » by LA Bird » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:21 pm

Quick thoughts:
- Not in GOAT tier but the 98 Bulls were one of the best teams ever by point differentials over RS+PO. Pippen being out half the season makes it hard to make teammate arguments against Jordan being #1.
- Shaq the new +/- king but missed 22 games and got swept by the Jazz. Top 3 but will have to look at the H2H series against Malone more closely to see if he goes #2.
- I have Duncan behind Robinson. Better post scorer from day 1 but the Spurs won on defense and Robinson was the anchor on that end. Playoffs net rating in Duncan minutes without Robinson were pretty ugly first couple playoffs but get overlooked by most.
- Payton has top 5 case IMO. Seattle stays 6 SRS despite trading Kemp for literally the worst player in the league by +/- (Vin Baker) and Payton had maybe his best playoffs.
- Excellent +/- numbers from Mourning and Mutombo but not sure either make the list.
- This version of Reggie isn't a serious candidate for me. Pacers were one of the best RS teams and reached G7 ECF but they were also a top 5 defense and Reggie's one argument (playoffs scoring) was absent.
OhayoKD
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 1997-98 UPDATE 

Post#20 » by OhayoKD » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:37 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Malone until the steal & shot. Thing is the Bulls had to win game 6 with Pippen injured and Rodman “out to pasture”. MJ scored 8 points in the final 2:07 to win by one including stripping Malone down 1pt. We all laugh at the notion of “willing” a team to a title but he literally did it.

Yes because touching the ball last means you were the only one who contributed to the basket.


Layup, steal, shot is pretty straightforward.


https://youtu.be/xSexPrywGqg
Jordan is not getting that steal in the first place if his teammate isn't holding Malone in place
He isn't shooting in single coverage if Utah aren't wary of what his teammates can do
And that still leaves 6 points (and 3 defensive possessions) unaccounted for.

La Bird wrote:I have Duncan behind Robinson. Better post scorer from day 1 but the Spurs won on defense and Robinson was the anchor on that end. Playoffs net rating in Duncan minutes without Robinson were pretty ugly first couple playoffs but get overlooked by most.

So basically when Duncan is playing with Robinson's backups?
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL

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