Official RJ Barrett Thread Part 2

[Indeed]

I really like RJ as a 2nd or 3rd option.

Not a fan of his game/ mentality when he is expected to be "the guy". His game isn't built for that.

Having said that, he is the only player that can create something right now, so it's not entirely his fault. I do wish he would kick it out more rather than force up a shot down low when he is out-sized.....especially in crunch time.

He really has to work on a floater & a mid range shot if he wants to be that guy.

Having our primary faciliators (Scottie & IQ) injured all season hasn't been good for his game.

He showed a floater near the end of 2nd quarter.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm skeptical. He doesn't have good touch inside and is a poor shooter - that's not a good combination for an on-ball wing.

Just finished the game, and he had another push shot (Poeltl type, but obviously can be blocked with the release being so low) in the 3rd quarter.

As for your comment on not having good touch inside, are you sure? Most of his shots are finish that requires good touches due to scoring in traffic. You sure you are watching the games?

[MEDIC]

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

Personally, I think the mid range/ floater's value would.mostly be for end of clock/ end of game situations. Right now the defense knows exactly what he is going to do. He needs to have more options.

Would I want him to take those all game if he could do it efficiently? Of course.

I think RJ needs to have someone analyze his game before this offseason, then set some some.goals for offseason growth & just go to work on those skills.

He seems to have developed a more reliable 3 point shot the last 2 seasons, so that is encouraging.

[djsunyc]

FT shooting
last 10 games: 79.2% (4.8 fta)
last 8 games: 84.6% (4.9 fta)

[ItsDanger]

He showed a floater near the end of 2nd quarter.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm skeptical. He doesn't have good touch inside and is a poor shooter - that's not a good combination for an on-ball wing.

Just finished the game, and he had another push shot (Poeltl type, but obviously can be blocked with the release being so low) in the 3rd quarter.

As for your comment on not having good touch inside, are you sure? Most of his shots are finish that requires good touches due to scoring in traffic. You sure you are watching the games?

His touch with the floater overall is poor. Sometimes he gets it going but I don't think he has the touch for it. It's something that has to improve but why hasn't it already?

[ConSarnit]

He showed a floater near the end of 2nd quarter.

I don't have a lot of confidence his floater game is ever going to come around. In his best season RJ has shot 38% on driving floaters (for comparison, someone with a good floater game, Jalen Brunson, consistently shoots mid-50% from floater range). His game outside of 5ft is pretty much relegated to open 3's. Everything else has been extremely inefficient.

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

He needs a counter and he doesn't have one. He can't make midrange shot and he can't make floaters. If RJ could make floaters at mid-50% that would be a huge boon to his game. If he could make mid-50% on floaters he should take those all day. That's efficient half-court offense.

[Indeed]

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

Personally, I think the mid range/ floater's value would.mostly be for end of clock/ end of game situations. Right now the defense knows exactly what he is going to do. He needs to have more options.

Would I want him to take those all game if he could do it efficiently? Of course.

I think RJ needs to have someone analyze his game before this offseason, then set some some.goals for offseason growth & just go to work on those skills.

He seems to have developed a more reliable 3 point shot the last 2 seasons, so that is encouraging.

I think instead of Barrett needs more option, our team needs more options and have a 1st option to close games.
He looked gas out on the last 2 possessions he tried to score as well.

At the salary point of Barrett, if he can improve his defense to average, he can be a very good starter, and we still have enough for a max contract for the 1st option (probably someone with PnR with high efficiency to close games).

Currently we don't have someone with better scoring, and him taking fouls to improve his defense is pretty much impossible, imo hard to blame on him. We did put him against the top opposing scorers, from guards to forwards, and perhaps we tried to see who he can defend the best and make him an average defender by scheme (at least), I guess.

[Indeed]

I don't have a lot of confidence his floater game is ever going to come around. In his best season RJ has shot 38% on driving floaters (for comparison, someone with a good floater game, Jalen Brunson, consistently shoots mid-50% from floater range). His game outside of 5ft is pretty much relegated to open 3's. Everything else has been extremely inefficient.

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

He needs a counter and he doesn't have one. He can't make midrange shot and he can't make floaters. If RJ could make floaters at mid-50% that would be a huge boon to his game. If he could make mid-50% on floaters he should take those all day. That's efficient half-court offense.

At his salary, I prefer him to improve his defense. He is a good scorer, but on a championship, I don't see a pure scorer starter.

And our problem (as I posted above), is lack of scoring options. Our next option is Dick, and his made are mainly spot up. Shead did create some from broken play for Dick, but the ball just goes to Barrett on pretty much most of the possessions. And the bench without Barrett just un-watchable, seeing Olynky chuck being the only offense is just ... difficult to watch.

[brownbobcat]

He showed a floater near the end of 2nd quarter.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm skeptical. He doesn't have good touch inside and is a poor shooter - that's not a good combination for an on-ball wing.

Just finished the game, and he had another push shot (Poeltl type, but obviously can be blocked with the release being so low) in the 3rd quarter.

As for your comment on not having good touch inside, are you sure? Most of his shots are finish that requires good touches due to scoring in traffic. You sure you are watching the games?

I'm not doubting that he tried it, I mean that I'm hopeful that he develops an effect floater.

I take back saying that RJ doesn't have good touch - that might be too harsh. He has decent touch at the rim, just not exceptional. That combined with questionable shooting and average size/athleticism make him a non-elite finisher right despite his high motor and aggressiveness.

I guess it depends on expectations. As-is, he's an above-average NBA starter, but his skillset doesn't mesh well on very good teams where someone else will be taking those kinds of shots.

[ConSarnit]

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

Personally, I think the mid range/ floater's value would.mostly be for end of clock/ end of game situations. Right now the defense knows exactly what he is going to do. He needs to have more options.

Would I want him to take those all game if he could do it efficiently? Of course.

I think RJ needs to have someone analyze his game before this offseason, then set some some.goals for offseason growth & just go to work on those skills.

He seems to have developed a more reliable 3 point shot the last 2 seasons, so that is encouraging.

He must know. I just don't think he can do it. RJ has a rep as a gym rat but he's not making progress outside of his passing game.

Here are his midrange fg% for the past 5 seasons (starting with this season):

32, 31, 31, 31, 36

Here are his wide-open 3pt%:

42, 40, 33, 43, 42

Here are his "open" 3pt%:

27, 28, 31, 30, 39

He has made no shooting progress. He has gotten smarter about the types of attempts but he's not showing any progress when broken down by zone. RJ is more efficient here because we cut out all of his bad shots. He's shooting unsustainably hot from corner 3 right now (47%) but it's on low volume (34 attempts on the season).

If a guy is a gym rat and he's making little to no progress in one area (shooting) you have to start asking yourself if he's actually capable of improving. Maybe the hope would be our staff can help him more than the Knicks?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Do you want him to take mid range even he can do it?
Most teams are looking to score either at rim or from 3 for better efficiency. If someone (regardless of Barrett) can make those mid-50% from floater, do you still prefer to make that? Or make a pass to someone for a higher efficient shot?

Personally, I think the mid range/ floater's value would.mostly be for end of clock/ end of game situations. Right now the defense knows exactly what he is going to do. He needs to have more options.

Would I want him to take those all game if he could do it efficiently? Of course.

I think RJ needs to have someone analyze his game before this offseason, then set some some.goals for offseason growth & just go to work on those skills.

He seems to have developed a more reliable 3 point shot the last 2 seasons, so that is encouraging.

He must know. I just don't think he can do it. RJ has a rep as a gym rat but he's not making progress outside of his passing game.

Here are his midrange fg% for the past 5 seasons (starting with this season):

32, 31, 31, 31, 36

Here are his wide-open 3pt%:

42, 40, 33, 43, 42

Here are his "open" 3pt%:

27, 28, 31, 30, 39

He has made no shooting progress. He has gotten smarter about the types of attempts but he's not showing any progress when broken down by zone. RJ is more efficient here because we cut out all of his bad shots. He's shooting unsustainably hot from corner 3 right now (47%) but it's on low volume (34 attempts on the season).

If a guy is a gym rat and he's making little to no progress in one area (shooting) you have to start asking yourself if he's actually capable of improving. Maybe the hope would be our staff can help him more than the Knicks?

I found something that looks like progress!

[LoveMyRaps]

Here are his midrange fg% for the past 5 seasons (starting with this season):

32, 31, 31, 31, 36

Here are his wide-open 3pt%:

42, 40, 33, 43, 42

Here are his "open" 3pt%:

27, 28, 31, 30, 39

He has made no shooting progress.

Looks like progress to me.

[Scase]

He showed a floater near the end of 2nd quarter.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm skeptical. He doesn't have good touch inside and is a poor shooter - that's not a good combination for an on-ball wing.

Yeah. Hitting one floater doesn't really mean anything..

I am not suggesting that he can't get better, but he has a long ways to go.

If he comes back next season with a new tool in the toolbox, it will be very encouraging. If he comes back and hasn't really added anything, I think we'll all know what his full potential is. It will just be a matter of refining his existing skills & utilizing them efficiently within the offense.

This is pretty much the knock on him since day 1, his game has not changed from year 1 in the league. He's not added any new moves, I think the best we can expect here, is that we continue to put him in better positions to score with his current skill set.

Personally, I think the mid range/ floater's value would.mostly be for end of clock/ end of game situations. Right now the defense knows exactly what he is going to do. He needs to have more options.

Would I want him to take those all game if he could do it efficiently? Of course.

I think RJ needs to have someone analyze his game before this offseason, then set some some.goals for offseason growth & just go to work on those skills.

He seems to have developed a more reliable 3 point shot the last 2 seasons, so that is encouraging.

He must know. I just don't think he can do it. RJ has a rep as a gym rat but he's not making progress outside of his passing game.

Here are his midrange fg% for the past 5 seasons (starting with this season):

32, 31, 31, 31, 36

Here are his wide-open 3pt%:

42, 40, 33, 43, 42

Here are his "open" 3pt%:

27, 28, 31, 30, 39

He has made no shooting progress. He has gotten smarter about the types of attempts but he's not showing any progress when broken down by zone. RJ is more efficient here because we cut out all of his bad shots. He's shooting unsustainably hot from corner 3 right now (47%) but it's on low volume (34 attempts on the season).

If a guy is a gym rat and he's making little to no progress in one area (shooting) you have to start asking yourself if he's actually capable of improving. Maybe the hope would be our staff can help him more than the Knicks?

I found something that looks like progress!

Here are his midrange fg% for the past 5 seasons (starting with this season):

32, 31, 31, 31, 36

Here are his wide-open 3pt%:

42, 40, 33, 43, 42

Here are his "open" 3pt%:

27, 28, 31, 30, 39

He has made no shooting progress.

Looks like progress to me.

You're both reading the stats backwards, TBF Consarnit listed them a little weirdly.

He's starting with this years numbers, as in the leftmost number is this year and the rightmost number is the 20-21 season. He's either stagnated or outright regressing.

[ThatClockWork]

FT shooting
last 10 games: 79.2% (4.8 fta)
last 8 games: 84.6% (4.9 fta)

HE is addressing one of his largest weaknesses. This is what we want to see regardless of the win/loss.
This team will win more games if they are healthy. Another year of synergy behind the scenes is key.

[Scase]

FT shooting
last 10 games: 79.2% (4.8 fta)
last 8 games: 84.6% (4.9 fta)

HE is addressing one of his largest weaknesses. This is what we want to see regardless of the win/loss.
This team will win more games if they are healthy. Another year of synergy behind the scenes is key.

Or it's a random hot streak over the course of 10 games and he didn't magically improve 13% over his career averages out of nowhere. This is a grand total of 48 FTAs, 71% to 84% is a total of 6 more made FTs over 10 games, it is a meaningless sample size. This is not to say that he can't improve, but rather this doesn't show he's addressing his weakness, just that he's having a bit of a hot streak.

For instance, the first 10 games of the 22-23 season, he shot 81.4% on 4.3fta/g. He finished that season at 74%.
Games 68-77 in 21-22 he shot 78% on 8.2fta/g, he finished the season at 71.4% which is basically his career average. You can find outliers like this in any players historical performance, it's too small to mean anything.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If you read Michael Grange's piece on RJ, you'd know some of what he worked on this summer with Hanlan and you'd know it is being seen on the court this year.

Right now he's seeing more attention than IQ or Scottie have ever gotten from opposing teams. The rest of the league views him as a viable threat with the ball in a way they don't with our other core scorers. This is good for the Raptors and good for RJ. We'd all love it if he had range outside of 5 feet, too.

[Scase]

If you read Michael Grange's piece on RJ, you'd know some of what he worked on this summer with Hanlan and you'd know it is being seen on the court this year.

Right now he's seeing more attention than IQ or Scottie have ever gotten from opposing teams. The rest of the league views him as a viable threat with the ball in a way they don't with our other core scorers. This is good for the Raptors and good for RJ. We'd all love it if he had range outside of 5 feet, too.

Got a link? I don't read much from SN/TSN etc.

[Ell Curry]

RJ would be a perfect guy off the bench and just punish opposing team's benches

I would hope that that is RJ's role, as soon as whoever we draft this summer is ready to start along with Quickley, Barnes, Poeltl and a 3pt shooting wing.

Then we get to see if RJ can be a 6th man of the year type. Let's say it's Agbaji starting since the draft wings mostly do not look like plus defenders on the whole, really. That's a bench of Walter-Gradey-RJ-Mogbo and then a big (Olynyk or the MLE), which looks pretty good. Mogbo guards the best scorer from 2-4 on the court, RJ and Gradey are the offensive threats, Walter hits 3s and guards, Olynyk or an MLE center completes the 10 man rotation.

*Agbaji or NAW on the MLE if we need defence more, Dick if we need shooting more, Walter if he turns out to be the best shooter of him, Agbaji and Dick and the best defender, and the guy we draft is Demin/Flagg/Bailey i.e a SF sized dude

But long-term, if we go 2/3 in hitting on at least rotation guys on our 1st rounders the next 2 years, which seems reasonable, that's 8 rotation guys at least (being bearish on Shead due to his stats and Chomche due to being a raw but fun flier type who is probably low percentage to actually come good) in those 2 picks, Barnes, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, Walter, Quickley. And that's not counting the MLE we can probably use and assuming one of the 3 first rounders is a proper bust you don't want playing 20 minutes a night. So it's hard to see how he won't make more sense as salary in a trade with a first or 2 for a better player. We're gonna have enough guys soon, the Siakam + OG trades and Masai recovering from his post-Championship/Covid stupor and being smart again has probably brought us back like 7 new rotation guys (Dick, Quickley, Barrett, Agbaji, Walter, Mogbo, 2026 Pacers), so reversing course with some sort of consolidation trade now makes sense.

[XTC]

Player A
23.8/6.0/4.6
PER - 18.0
TS - 55.0%

Player B
23.5/6.8/6.1
PER - 17.1
TS - 54.6%

Player A is 3x allstar Jaylen Brown, while Player B is RJ Barrett.

RJ gets way too much hate. Kid is having an allstar caliber season IMO.

Edit - Browns stats where not much different last season either.

[RoteSchroder]

Player A
23.8/6.0/4.6
PER - 18.0
TS - 55.0%

Player B
23.5/6.8/6.1
PER - 17.1
TS - 54.6%

Player A is 3x allstar Jaylen Brown, while Player B is RJ Barrett.

RJ gets way too much hate. Kid is having an allstar caliber season IMO.

Edit - Browns stats where not much different last season either.

I'm guessing Brown's better on defense, but yeah, RJ is ideally you're number 3 guy. He can hit wide open shots, apply rim pressure and score an efficient 18-20 PPG in a smaller role. Scottie's you're #2, a connective piece. Then you need a #1 30 PPG scorer. Gradey's an ideal 6th man.

[HKBOY]

Player A
23.8/6.0/4.6
PER - 18.0
TS - 55.0%

Player B
23.5/6.8/6.1
PER - 17.1
TS - 54.6%

Player A is 3x allstar Jaylen Brown, while Player B is RJ Barrett.

RJ gets way too much hate. Kid is having an allstar caliber season IMO.

Edit - Browns stats where not much different last season either.

I'm guessing Brown's better on defense, but yeah, RJ is ideally you're number 3 guy. He can hit wide open shots, apply rim pressure and score an efficient 18-20 PPG in a smaller role. Scottie's you're #2, a connective piece. Then you need a #1 30 PPG scorer. Gradey's an ideal 6th man.

Future Killer Bs

#1 Bailey
#2 Barnes
#3 Barrett