Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[doclinkin]

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Right. Or is it more likely that our front office asked if he would waive his 15% trade kicker, and Kyle said no. So the Maverick said OK we don’t want him at that price. What will you take for Gafford?

[leswizards]

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Right. Or is it more likely that our front office asked if he would waive his 15% trade kicker, and Kyle said no. So the Maverick said OK we don’t want him at that price. What will you take for Gafford?

Also, I am pretty certain that the Mavericks did not have $25 million worth of contracts that were worse than Kuzma last season at the deadline.

[Kanyewest]

Kyle Kuzma has been one of the worst players in the nba for the past two seasons. The seasons before that, he was an overrated ball hog. Why would any good team want him? On top of that, Kuzma makes in excess of $23 million a year. That means those good teams have to trade the Wizards around $23 million worth of salary that is worse than Kyle Kuzma. Most good teams don’t have that much bad salary to trade.

Mavericks wanted him last season at the trade deadline.

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Yes I believe the Athletic report although they never said there were multiple firsts were on the table.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5271857/2024/02/13/kyle-kuzma-wizards-mavericks-near-trade?source=user-shared-article

[Kanyewest]

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Right. Or is it more likely that our front office asked if he would waive his 15% trade kicker, and Kyle said no. So the Maverick said OK we don’t want him at that price. What will you take for Gafford?

It may have been before they got PJ Washington. I don't know. Point is Kuzma had some value. Although maybe not enough for 2024 draft pick, more likely a future one.

[leswizards]

Mavericks wanted him last season at the trade deadline.

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Yes I believe the Athletic report although they never said there were multiple firsts were on the table.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5271857/2024/02/13/kyle-kuzma-wizards-mavericks-near-trade?source=user-shared-article

I can’t read the article because of subscription, but I would be willing to bet that no one from the Wizards front office is on record in that article, and the source for the article comes completely from Kyle Kuzma’s camp.

[doclinkin]

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Right. Or is it more likely that our front office asked if he would waive his 15% trade kicker, and Kyle said no. So the Maverick said OK we don’t want him at that price. What will you take for Gafford?

It may have been before they got PJ Washington. I don't know. Point is Kuzma had some value. Although maybe not enough for 2024 draft pick, more likely a future one.

The difference between Kuzma +15% and Gafford + something = PJ Washington.

[doclinkin]

Anyway trading Kuz to the Mavs doesn’t net us Carrington. It gets us Keyshawn George.


Long term Bub + 3 picks + extra minutes for Bilal & Sarr + whatever we get from Brogdon is >>> Deni.

Though any equation that can subtract Kuzma is worth trying to work out.

[Kanyewest]

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

Yes I believe the Athletic report although they never said there were multiple firsts were on the table.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5271857/2024/02/13/kyle-kuzma-wizards-mavericks-near-trade?source=user-shared-article

I can’t read the article because of subscription, but I would be willing to bet that no one from the Wizards front office is on record in that article, and the source for the article comes completely from Kyle Kuzma’s camp.

Michael Winger is on record in the article. At least they have quotes from him.

“Kyle’s an important player for us and (a) significant contributor to our developing culture,” Winger told The Athletic on Monday. “His commitment is necessary for us to achieve our competitive and environmental objectives. Under the circumstances, I wanted to check in with his belief to continue leading us. He reemphasized his desire to forge ahead, and we’re honored to have him.”

[Kanyewest]

The last 10 games for Deni, 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 3.4 apg while shooting 52% from the field and 46.8% from 3. After starting the season at 17.% from 3 through the first 11 games, he's now shooting 36% from 3 for the season.

Trail Blazers fans are now saying he's the best player on the team.

[AFM]

Well yeah. They completely ruined their rebuild. Drafting Scoot who looks terrible and trading 4 picks for a role player.

Imagine if we traded 4 picks for a player like Deni. Like what is POR doing?

Borderline Grunfeldian move from their perspective.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Kyle Kuzma has been one of the worst players in the nba for the past two seasons. The seasons before that, he was an overrated ball hog. Why would any good team want him? On top of that, Kuzma makes in excess of $23 million a year. That means those good teams have to trade the Wizards around $23 million worth of salary that is worse than Kyle Kuzma. Most good teams don’t have that much bad salary to trade.

Mavericks wanted him last season at the trade deadline.

That is almost certainly a complete myth started by Kuzma’s pr team because Kuzma has a weak ego that needs to be stroked. Do you truly believe that the Wizards front office worked out a trade for 2 first round picks but decided to kill the deal because Kuzma wanted to stay with the Wizards?

The deal wasn't killed, it amended it. Gafford netted a first round pick, Kuzma would have been the second. Mavericks then pivoted to PJ Washington would netted a first rounder for Charlotte. The Kyle Kuzma vetoing the trade report was never refuted by the front office, which they very much could have done, so the assumption is that is true.

Most likely the front office both (1) thought that they could get more for Kuzma even if they had to until the offseason and (2) they wanted to be seen as being a player friendly front office. There's been a number of head scratching things from this front office even outside of the Deni trade that makes it completely plausible.

When did Winger and Dawkins suddenly become immune to criticism? They are well paid executives for NBA franchises and should be held to a high standards. Hell Winger was part of the front office that jettisoned SGA for George in a cheap attempt to get an easy chip that completely backfired on them. We give a nepo hire to Weaver as soon as he got fired. We traded an expiring Chris Paul who we could have just let walk to a GS front office that was more than happy to let Poole go for nothing.

But yes I forgot, the new line of reasoning is that Kuzma and Poole were always meant to ride out their contracts here for the perfect masterclass in tanking. Oh boy....

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

The last 10 games for Deni, 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 3.4 apg while shooting 52% from the field and 46.8% from 3. After starting the season at 17.% from 3 through the first 11 games, he's now shooting 36% from 3 for the season.

Trail Blazers fans are now saying he's the best player on the team.

They been saying that, even after his rocky start here on RealGM, SB Nation, etc.. Most agree him, Clingan, and Camara are the keepers on the roster.

Problem is they have Simons, Grant, and Ayton that they need to find ways to move.

Deni is a great two-way player. A player that is a versatile, 6'9'' defender and puts up say 16-18 points, 7-9 rebounds, 4-6 assists and 1.5-2 stocks a game on above average efficiency is not a role player, it's a part of the rebuild puzzle. The only piece, no because that's silly thinking, but definitely a piece at 23 years old that is still years away from entering his prime. He put up those number basically for what the last 60% or so of last season and after the slow start to a new team and once again doing that. But if you don't average 20 points or willing to chuck up a ton of bad shots, youre a role player amongst the dunce cappers.

Deni isn't starting only to shop Grant at this point. Go read through POR game threads, vast majority of posters say the same. But I know, a few so desperately want to cling to "he's coming off the bench" to somehow use it against him as a player.

[AFM]

Yeah I'm a dunce capper. A 12 and 5 player is a role player, not a star or an all star or a main piece. A role player. Deni is probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

[The Consiglieri]

You know, I'm still really not sure where either of you guys stand on this. Let's debate it for another 37 pages, I think if we can get close to 40 more pages, I may be able to figure out the nuances of your individual takes on this. "May," being the operative word. Please, go on.

[AFM]

You know, I'm still really not sure where either of you guys stand on this. Let's debate it for another 37 pages, I think if we can get close to 40 more pages, I may be able to figure out the nuances of your individual takes on this. "May," being the operative word. Please, go on.

Is there something else we should be discussing? We’re treading water until the draft.

[doclinkin]

The deal wasn't killed, it amended it. Gafford netted a first round pick, Kuzma would have been the second.

Incorrect.

Kuzma would have cost 29.4 million by himself last year (after the trade kicker).

Gafford + PJ Washington = 29.2 million.

The deal was for either Kuzma or Gafford. When Kuz fell through they pivoted to Gafford and set up a 2nd deal for PJ.

For the Mavericks, the trade talks with the Wizards about Kuzma were not a total dead end. After Winger informed Dallas general manager Nico Harrison there would be no deal for Kuzma, the teams agreed on a different trade. Washington traded center Daniel Gafford to Dallas for a 2024 first-round pick (the more favorable of the LA Clippers’ and Oklahoma City Thunder’s first-round picks) and center Richaun Holmes.

There was no deal where the Mavs would have taken in $41.8 million in Wizards contracts and sent us 2 picks.

[payitforward]

Sheesh!!
What is the point of arguing about whether Deni is a good player or not? Of course he's a good player; he just got off to a slow start this year.

OTOH, it's because he's a good player that we got a lot for him in a trade. We got Bub Carrington, a lottery pick w/ a ton of upside. We got Malcolm Brogdon, a terrific veteran who should have value at the deadline. We got a R1 pick in 2029. How high? We don't know -- but it could be somewhere in the middle of R1. We also got a R2 pick in 2028 -- lot of really good players get picked in R2. & we got another R2 pick in 2030.

Does that mean the trade will turn out to be a one-sided victory for the Wizards? Of course not! Not for Portland either. That said, I would have made that trade, no question about it, just as Will Dawkins did. It was the right decision, IMO.

[The Consiglieri]

You know, I'm still really not sure where either of you guys stand on this. Let's debate it for another 37 pages, I think if we can get close to 40 more pages, I may be able to figure out the nuances of your individual takes on this. "May," being the operative word. Please, go on.

Is there something else we should be discussing? We’re treading water until the draft.

Prospect development, that dude we signed to a 10 day that suddenly looked vaguely competent, how long are we ----ed if we get hosed in this lottery?

Reffing your disagreements with the other guy over a guy we traded 6 months ago, when the opinions are burnished 50,000x over, and no nuances are being misunderstood? Not a big priority. We get it, you think Deni is below Mid. We get it, the other guy really likes Deni.

There's no new ground to be discovered here. It's like digging for gold in Placerville in 2024 instead of 1849. Utterly pointless.

I get that it's the Deni thread, but we totally all know where you guys stand. The "I Told You So's" should be reserved for 2026 or 2027, that's the only detritus still to be scrubbed off from your back and forth from that dude, we get the particulars at this point.

FTR, I'm not saying this as someone with well thought out opinions on anything in particular to Basketball. Both of you could run rings around me times 10,000, that is fully understood on my part. The issue is that this horse isn't even a skeleton anymore, it's fossilized at this point.

[AFM]

Sorry I don't agree. PIF has made the same post about trading back in the lottery over a thousand times. We're all repeating ourselves at this point.

[Benjammin]

Trading back in the draft always sounds great, until you have to find a team that wants to move up and actually give you something worth doing it. Plus, in the NBA it's much harder to get value for trading back than in the NFL.