Eye of the Tiger: The Tidjane Salaun Thread

[EmpireFalls]

He’s clearly super engaged when you watch him. Interacts with Lee a lot, pays attention in the huddle, the post above, it’s very different form an attentive/ body language perspective than what I’ve observed from Bouknight and Kai in particular, LaMelo at times, Miles at times… it’s one of the things that gives me hope and makes him easy to cheer and be happy for.

From the moment the pick was made the spin has been he’s raw, but he’s taken huge leaps (Ex, where he was at the start of last season to where he was for his club’s playoff run) because he’s a really hard worker who wants to get better. Maybe he won’t get better, many (most?) picks don’t achieve their ceiling, but some of the takes are so asinine at this point that they hover the line of trolling.

If you root against Salaun succeeding, I question your motivation at this point. Can’t stomach more losing? fine, take a walk this season. Insulted he was selected instead of the player of your choice/from your favorite collegiate program? Go watch that team and find your next crush, but consider along the way that you might not really care about the Charlotte pro basketball franchise outside of the fact one of your former darlings had a spell in the Queen City.

The few of you that I think just troll the board for kicks, I hope one day you grow up and spend your time attempting to make a place better instead of worse.

You wrote an entire 4 paragraphs admonishing the “haters” without mentioning a single thing Salaun does well on the basketball court, and I think that really sums it all up far better than I could myself.

[Walt Cronkite]

You wrote an entire 4 paragraphs admonishing the “haters” without mentioning a single thing Salaun does well on the basketball court, and I think that really sums it all up far better than I could myself.

I was making an on topic observation about Liver Pooty's post. The things he does well have been mentioned, I didn't realize I needed to bring them up in every post, but since yours are typically the same regurgitation, I suppose that is the way you like to do things.

Besides being clearly motivated and attentive, he has a nice looking stroke and is fearless about taking shots (confidence), especially from deep which is helpful in the modern nba. He rebounds. Dribble drives have improved tremendously since the season began, has made some very good passing looks. He plays active defense and often gets steals and blocks.

You were feeling sorry for him when he was put in a position to start games because he was going to be "absolutely embarassed" and you were notably absent (it was nice) when he was having pretty good outings instead, including a double double. Of course, you are back at it now that he has had a 0fer in his second game back from injury to pretend he is responsible for the plight on the franchise's season...

Sorry for using paragraphs on an internet message board?

[amcoolio]

I am absolutely rooting for Salaun to succeed. He has an incredible work ethic, NBA body and hes a good kid from all accounts. I was just pointing out why posters are frustrated. To go through a horrid season and only have Salaun to show for it definitely is a punch in the balls.

Also, I'm tired of hearing about "hindsight". Collectively as a board, we would have made better draft picks than the GM has the past 10 years. Go back and look at the "big board" threads. We would have picked SGA (even though I didn't care for him). We would have picked Eason. We would have picked LaMelo. We would have picked Clingan. The only major miss we had was Monk, but we couldnt predict he was that immature

[EmpireFalls]

Besides being clearly motivated and attentive, he has a nice looking stroke and is fearless about taking shots (confidence), especially from deep which is helpful in the modern nba.

This is his best trait, I agree - and yet he’s shooting 29%, on 21-71 this year from deep. Sub-33% FG.

When was the last time you saw a 6’11” guy shooting 32% from the field?

He rebounds.

He rebounds at an acceptable level for being the tallest player on the floor but he doesn’t box out well.

Dribble drives have improved tremendously since the season began, has made some very good passing looks.

If by tremendously you mean that he physically could not dribble a basketball before 2024 then sure. This is actually the crux of what I’m getting at. Our fanbase’s standards are so low it is getting to the point where Salaun is being talked about like he has special needs or something. He cannot execute even simple dribble moves like a between the legs.

He has a couple fun takes in transition every week but he is absolutely hopeless driving for the most part. As for his passing and on-ball decision making, last night he directed Micic to set a screen for him and shot a 3. He threw the ball at Diabate’s feet in a crucial crunch time possession. He doesn’t advance the ball in possessions well and is oddly ball-hoggy due to his inability to process at NBA speed.

He is constantly mis-spaced and late to rotate.

He plays active defense and often gets steals and blocks.

He hasn’t had a block in 9 games. His active defense involves biting on the easiest pump fakes, trying wild blitzes, and challenging nothing at the rim. Again, what you see as active defense I see as hopelessly lost headless chicken stuff. And he fouls at a very high rate for his minute load. If he was a rim protector the entire conversation would be different - he is not, he’s an oversized wing with clunky feet.

You were feeling sorry for him when he was put in a position to start games because he was going to be "absolutely embarassed" and you were notably absent (it was nice) when he was having pretty good outings instead, including a double double. Of course, you are back at it now that he has had a 0fer in his second game back from injury to pretend he is responsible for the plight on the franchise's season...

I like you and your posts and I think maybe I have come across too strong here, because I actually agree with this paragraph the most. Tidjane isn’t even in the top 10 biggest issues with this franchise. He shouldn’t even be in a position to be playing, really, and even if he’s playing, he shouldn’t be counted on to do anything substantial.

However, most of my consternation falls with Jeff. If this franchise is to succeed we need to nail our picks and maximize our assets. Our roster is currently 27th or 28th in terms of talent, I think. We need as many NBA players as possible. So for me, for his first pick to be #6 on a player who looks as lost as Salaun, it really affects me deeply. Again, I don’t dislike Salaun personally. I would love nothing more for him to succeed. But he so clearly is lost and a very bad player right now.

[yosemiteben]

Thor played in 33 total games his rookie year, and only averaged 7.9 MPG in games where he played. His per 36 stats are meaningless.

This is why I added career numbers, to expand the sample size available.

The skills look sufficiently similar at baseline so that pulling data from Thor as a 20 year old in his sophomore season, doesn't really absolve Tidjane from those similarities.

They have similar height.

Same position.

Same role assignment.

Same inefficient shooting overall.

Same inefficient 3's.

Same low assists.

Same low FTAR.

One year difference doesn't dismiss those similarities for their early careers.

So if Salaun doesn't improve after his first 30 games of his rookie season season then I'll think you may have a point.

Why pick Thor as the comparison, then use stats beyond his rookie season to justify it?

[MasterIchiro]

Thor played in 33 total games his rookie year, and only averaged 7.9 MPG in games where he played. His per 36 stats are meaningless.

This is why I added career numbers, to expand the sample size available.

The skills look sufficiently similar at baseline so that pulling data from Thor as a 20 year old in his sophomore season, doesn't really absolve Tidjane from those similarities.

They have similar height.

Same position.

Same role assignment.

Same inefficient shooting overall.

Same inefficient 3's.

Same low assists.

Same low FTAR.

One year difference doesn't dismiss those similarities for their early careers.

So if Salaun doesn't improve after his first 30 games of his rookie season season then I'll think you may have a point.

Why pick Thor as the comparison, then use stats beyond his rookie season to justify it?

I think I've been clear in prior posts as to the data points shared between the players.

I concede the comparison is imperfect. But all comparisons fall into that category of imperfection.

These are not robots they're human beings. So, the data points anyone selects in a comparison come with a human element.

I do not feel comfortable with Salaün with the ball in his hands. And I've highlighted the statistical categories that explain this feeling.

I am not willing to discard those shared data points on account of a 1 year discrepancy. There is no prediction here. There is just hypothesis based on predictors.

Fair play.

[yosemiteben]

This is why I added career numbers, to expand the sample size available.

The skills look sufficiently similar at baseline so that pulling data from Thor as a 20 year old in his sophomore season, doesn't really absolve Tidjane from those similarities.

They have similar height.

Same position.

Same role assignment.

Same inefficient shooting overall.

Same inefficient 3's.

Same low assists.

Same low FTAR.

One year difference doesn't dismiss those similarities for their early careers.

So if Salaun doesn't improve after his first 30 games of his rookie season season then I'll think you may have a point.

Why pick Thor as the comparison, then use stats beyond his rookie season to justify it?

I think I've been clear in prior posts as to the data points shared between the players.

I concede the comparison is imperfect. But all comparisons fall into that category of imperfection.

These are not robots they're human beings. So, the data points anyone selects in a comparison come with a human element.

I do not feel comfortable with Salaün with the ball in his hands. And I've highlighted the statistical categories that explain this feeling.

I am not willing to discard those shared data points on account of a 1 year discrepancy. There is no prediction here. There is just hypothesis based on predictors.

Fair play.

I'm just confused, because isn't the whole point of picking Thor to do an apples to apples comparison of 19 year old PFs? If not, why even make the comparison? Surely there's a wide universe of 20 year old rookies you could have picked from to get comp data sets.

All I've learned from comparing Salaun as a rookie to Thor as a rookie is that Salaun is massively outperforming Thor's rookie season.

[GoBobs]

I hope he comes out and goes 20/21 from 3 in his next 10 minutes of game time. I love his emotion, unlimited ambition, nba body ect ect....

Objectively... so far he sucks... his stats are the stats of a bust.... if he wants to stick in the league he needs to show something...

only 19, excuse.. ect.. ect... that only plays for so long and it isn't that long...

He has all the tools that Gant Williams and Josh Green has.. I hope he can put it all together...

[KembaWalker]

So if Salaun doesn't improve after his first 30 games of his rookie season season then I'll think you may have a point.

Why pick Thor as the comparison, then use stats beyond his rookie season to justify it?

I think I've been clear in prior posts as to the data points shared between the players.

I concede the comparison is imperfect. But all comparisons fall into that category of imperfection.

These are not robots they're human beings. So, the data points anyone selects in a comparison come with a human element.

I do not feel comfortable with Salaün with the ball in his hands. And I've highlighted the statistical categories that explain this feeling.

I am not willing to discard those shared data points on account of a 1 year discrepancy. There is no prediction here. There is just hypothesis based on predictors.

Fair play.

I'm just confused, because isn't the whole point of picking Thor to do an apples to apples comparison of 19 year old PFs? If not, why even make the comparison? Surely there's a wide universe of 20 year old rookies you could have picked from to get comp data sets.

All I've learned from comparing Salaun as a rookie to Thor as a rookie is that Salaun is massively outperforming Thor's rookie season.

Massively outperforming Thor in what lol

[Walt Cronkite]

However, most of my consternation falls with Jeff. If this franchise is to succeed we need to nail our picks and maximize our assets. Our roster is currently 27th or 28th in terms of talent, I think. We need as many NBA players as possible. So for me, for his first pick to be #6 on a player who looks as lost as Salaun, it really affects me deeply. Again, I don’t dislike Salaun personally. I would love nothing more for him to succeed. But he so clearly is lost and a very bad player right now.

Well, Peterson has made two draft picks, acquired a bunch of 2nds, resolved the Bridges contract situation that handcuffed Hornets offseason for 3 years(?) and signed some guys, what else? Green… did he hire Lee? Is that bad? Maybe Peterson sucks, idk, we are approaching regular season game 27? We were a cellar dweller before he arrived, we remain there. I see things to be cautiously optimistic about (the way the team generally fights despite the uphill nature of the battle, what seems to be an improved medical situation, some talented pieces), but there are more questions than answers.

Despite the many Charlotte draft misses and developmental failures, this is a new regime that hasn’t had the opportunity to fail yet. If you’ve decided they already have and are using Salaun as proof of this, okay, I guess. I think that’s soo silly, but fine. He’s shown stretches of good play, despite primarily having only his weaknesses highlighted by your posts in this thread (and others). I thought we’d be losing AND begging to see if the pick can develop and improve, which is what would be happened with the old guys, but losing is losing. It sucks. We know losing, we are Hornets supporters.

You and Ichiro and others are very much against the selection… it’s not endearing to read about over and over. Less so to argue with “He will never improve. I know it!” I hope that’s wrong, but what’s the argument? Who cares? Throw in some jokes or something. It’s boring. We are supposed to be united as suffering Hornets fans that care enough to check and post to a phpbb board in almost 2025 but when we have devolved to doom and glooming the excited 19 year old home run swing pick... what’s the point?

I don’t think anyone cares, so whatever, but man… this sucks.

[KembaWalker]

You think this is bad, wait till we go through this whole season and all we have to show for it next year is Liam McNeely and some cash from selling 2nd rounders

[yosemiteben]

I think I've been clear in prior posts as to the data points shared between the players.

I concede the comparison is imperfect. But all comparisons fall into that category of imperfection.

These are not robots they're human beings. So, the data points anyone selects in a comparison come with a human element.

I do not feel comfortable with Salaün with the ball in his hands. And I've highlighted the statistical categories that explain this feeling.

I am not willing to discard those shared data points on account of a 1 year discrepancy. There is no prediction here. There is just hypothesis based on predictors.

Fair play.

I'm just confused, because isn't the whole point of picking Thor to do an apples to apples comparison of 19 year old PFs? If not, why even make the comparison? Surely there's a wide universe of 20 year old rookies you could have picked from to get comp data sets.

All I've learned from comparing Salaun as a rookie to Thor as a rookie is that Salaun is massively outperforming Thor's rookie season.

Massively outperforming Thor in what lol

Tell me you haven't looked up Thor's stats without telling me you haven't looked up Thor's stats.

[Walt Cronkite]

You think this is bad, wait till we go through this whole season and all we have to show for it next year is Liam McNeely and some cash from selling 2nd rounders

Where does Liam McNeely play (so I can go ahead and decide his career trajectory already)?

[KembaWalker]

I'm just confused, because isn't the whole point of picking Thor to do an apples to apples comparison of 19 year old PFs? If not, why even make the comparison? Surely there's a wide universe of 20 year old rookies you could have picked from to get comp data sets.

All I've learned from comparing Salaun as a rookie to Thor as a rookie is that Salaun is massively outperforming Thor's rookie season.

Massively outperforming Thor in what lol

Tell me you haven't looked up Thor's stats without telling me you haven't looked up Thor's stats.

Thors stats were better than Salauns, you just said they don’t count because they were fewer minutes. Salaun playing worse to in more gifted time because this roster was not built to operate as a real basketball team doesn’t do much for me.

[KembaWalker]

You think this is bad, wait till we go through this whole season and all we have to show for it next year is Liam McNeely and some cash from selling 2nd rounders

Where does Liam McNeely play (so I can go ahead and decide his career trajectory already)?

Actually he plays at UConn so his agent would probably ask us politely to not draft him. I doubt this org is off Dan Hurleys **** list yet

[Walt Cronkite]

Actually he plays at UConn so his agent would probably ask us politely to not draft him. I doubt this org is off Dan Hurleys **** list yet

I thought for sure the joke was that was a made up name. Why would the front office and ownership of the Hornets be on Dan Hurley’s **** list? Bouknight?

[luciano-davidwesley]

Actually he plays at UConn so his agent would probably ask us politely to not draft him. I doubt this org is off Dan Hurleys **** list yet

I thought for sure the joke was that was a made up name. Why would the front office and ownership of the Hornets be on Dan Hurley’s **** list? Bouknight?

Oh no! We better ask Sir Hurley for permission and forgiveness before we dare draft any more of his proteges!

[KembaWalker]

Actually he plays at UConn so his agent would probably ask us politely to not draft him. I doubt this org is off Dan Hurleys **** list yet

I thought for sure the joke was that was a made up name. Why would the front office and ownership of the Hornets be on Dan Hurley’s **** list? Bouknight?

He said Bouknight should go to an organization with actual structure and accountability

[luciano-davidwesley]

Actually he plays at UConn so his agent would probably ask us politely to not draft him. I doubt this org is off Dan Hurleys **** list yet

I thought for sure the joke was that was a made up name. Why would the front office and ownership of the Hornets be on Dan Hurley’s **** list? Bouknight?

He said Bouknight should go to an organization with actual structure and accountability

Completely absolving Bouknought and himself of any responsibility for Bouknought's own poor outcomes - definitely not said in a self-serving way to try to help him recruit future college prospects and blame the Hornets - not him or Bouknought for his failures.

"I did Bouk good it was those dang Hornets that ruined him!"

Even though there were many red flags at UConn regarding Bouknought's immature and unprofessional ways.

News flash: Teams in the NBA are going draft whoever they want, regardless of if it might hurt Hurley's feelings.

[Walt Cronkite]

Is James Bouknight employed?