NBA viewership down

[mg]

Plenty of great young stars moving forward:

Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Wemby, Tatum, Brown, Ja, Edwards, Barnes, Sengun, Shai, Maxey, Lamelo, Haliburton, Wagner, Banchero etc...

League is in great hands.

Too bad American audiences aren't tuning in for any of those guys. Tatum is the closest to being a young American born star and even he couldn't get minutes on the Olympic team.

[bledredwine]

Plenty of great young stars moving forward:

Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Wemby, Tatum, Brown, Ja, Edwards, Barnes, Sengun, Shai, Maxey, Lamelo, Haliburton, Wagner, Banchero etc...

League is in great hands.

Too bad American audiences aren't tuning in for any of those guys. Tatum is the closest to being a young American born star and even he couldn't get minutes on the Olympic team.

I've got to be honest.

I look at that list and only consider five of them legit superstars.
In terms of highest level star power, it's not the most exciting moment in NBA history.

[djsunyc]

Read on Twitter

[Dan33185]

Huh?

He literally beat Jokic's team last season head to head in the playoffs.

Also he's still young. Way too early to be writing him off as a tier 1 guy.

The Wolves beat the Nuggets. But i don't see him progressing into a top 5 player anymore. Teams started to figure him out and he has some pretty big glaring holes in his game. Just don't see him getting to that top tier level that Lebron, Curry, Harden, KD, Kobe, Wade etc. got to...

Regardless of how old he is, I don't really see people improve in the areas he lacks in (he takes really poor angles on his drives + unable to read defenses and meh passer). Once you set up a capable defense, he can be rendered invisible besides a occasional barrage of 3s.

Those guys played with other HOF players lol.

Who's the HOF player playing with Ant?

Towns nah, Randle nah, Gobert hell nah!


Ant will likely get to a big market team and attract other HOF caliber talent to play with him. It's way too early to write him off.

Gobert will definitely be in the HOF someday. Towns, if his career trajectory continues will be as well.

[NZB2323]

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

ESPN/NBA marketed Tmac when he played in Orlando.

ESPN/NBA marketed Vince when he played in Toronto.

ESPN/NBA marketed KG when he played in Minnesota.

ESPN/NBA marketed Westbrook when he played in OKC.

ESPN/NBA marketed Reggie Miller when he played in Indiana.

ESPN/NBA marketed the 2002 Kings when they played in Sacramento.

My point is that someone playing in a small market isn’t an excuse to not market them.

The NBA markets Zion and Ant. Eventually they'll market Ja when the gun stuff blows over. It might just be that these guys don't have the historic star potential we think they have, as well as the vast majority of people being distracted by the rest of the world instead of everyone tuning into the same game in the 90s.

People in this thread have to come to terms with the fact that what's generally good for league viewership may not be the same as what you consider good. We're posting on an early 2000s internet forum. To say we're a niche part of NBA fandom would be an understatement.

It feels like I've seen more marketing about Bronny this year than Zion, Ant, or Ja, and it seems like Lebron, Curry, and Durant are the stars of the league who get the most marketing.

[TheGeneral99]

Plenty of great young stars moving forward:

Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Wemby, Tatum, Brown, Ja, Edwards, Barnes, Sengun, Shai, Maxey, Lamelo, Haliburton, Wagner, Banchero etc...

League is in great hands.

Too bad American audiences aren't tuning in for any of those guys. Tatum is the closest to being a young American born star and even he couldn't get minutes on the Olympic team.

I've got to be honest.

I look at that list and only consider five of them legit superstars.
In terms of highest level star power, it's not the most exciting moment in NBA history.

First, guys like Jokic, Luka and Giannis will all end up being top 25 players of all-time in all likelihood. Jokic and Giannis already have a case for top 25 of all-time. These are historically great players.

Second, some of these guys are extremely young and will become superstars by their mid to late 20s.

Wemby - 20
Edwards - 23
Banchero - 22
Wagner - 23
Holmgron - 22
Hali - 24
Maxey - 24
Mobley - 23
Barnes - 23
Sengun - 22
Lamelo - 23
Cade - 23

Third, remember that players like Harden didn't become superstar level players until year 6, Curry didn't become a superstar until year 5, Kawhi didn't become a superstar until year 5, Giannis didn't become a superstar until year 5...even Jokic didn't become a full fledged superstar level player until about year 4/5.

Also remember there are players that will turn into superstars that we don't event expect. Nobody expected guys like Nash or Curry to become MVP level players during their first 5 years in the league. They weren't on anyone's radar. Very few predicted late 1st and 2nd round players like Butler, Lowry, Manu, Arenas, Rondo, Parker etc. would be perennial all-star players.

I disagree entirely...the talent right now is just unbelievable and the star power is much deeper than ever.

[JustBuzzin]

The league marketed LeBron while he was in Cleveland. They marketed

Jokic is foreign and a big.

Maybe if the league acted like you have to watch Ant/The Timberwolves every night that would help instead of acting like it’s a problem that Ant plays in Minnesota.

You cant use LeBron as an example because there is no current LeBron in the league.

Also we knew about LeBron as a freshman in highschool. He was already projected to be the next MJ. He could have played anywhere because his name alone was already bigger than the NBA. LeBron is rare and something we may never see again.

ESPN/NBA marketed Tmac when he played in Orlando.

ESPN/NBA marketed Vince when he played in Toronto.

ESPN/NBA marketed KG when he played in Minnesota.

ESPN/NBA marketed Westbrook when he played in OKC.

ESPN/NBA marketed Reggie Miller when he played in Indiana.

ESPN/NBA marketed the 2002 Kings when they played in Sacramento.

My point is that someone playing in a small market isn’t an excuse to not market them.

I guess you and I are talking about something totally different.

I'm saying the league viewership is down because the faces LeBron/Curry teams are no longer contending teams. This goes to my point that Jokic/Ant both being in small markets and not having that Nat'l appeal like LeBron/Curry is why they are losing viewers.

The good teams have no It Factor. Tatum is great, but his personality is kind of boring. Jokic the same. I'm saying who is the guy currently who can take the throne from LeBron/Curry both on and off the court?

There isn't one right now.

[NZB2323]

Too bad American audiences aren't tuning in for any of those guys. Tatum is the closest to being a young American born star and even he couldn't get minutes on the Olympic team.

I've got to be honest.

I look at that list and only consider five of them legit superstars.
In terms of highest level star power, it's not the most exciting moment in NBA history.

First, guys like Jokic, Luka and Giannis will all end up being top 25 players of all-time in all likelihood. Jokic and Giannis already have a case for top 25 of all-time. These are historically great players.

Second, some of these guys are extremely young and will become superstars by their mid to late 20s.

Wemby - 20
Edwards - 23
Banchero - 22
Wagner - 23
Holmgron - 22
Hali - 24
Maxey - 24
Mobley - 23
Barnes - 23
Sengun - 22
Lamelo - 23
Cade - 23

Third, remember that players like Harden didn't become superstar level players until year 6, Curry didn't become a superstar until year 5, Kawhi didn't become a superstar until year 5, Giannis didn't become a superstar until year 5...even Jokic didn't become a full fledged superstar level player until about year 4/5.

Also remember there are players that will turn into superstars that we don't event expect. Nobody expected guys like Nash or Curry to become MVP level players during their first 5 years in the league. They weren't on anyone's radar. Very few predicted late 1st and 2nd round players like Butler, Lowry, Manu, Arenas, Rondo, Parker etc. would be perennial all-star players.

I disagree entirely...the talent right now is just unbelievable and the star power is much deeper than ever.

It’s a bigger problem if the league has a bunch of talent and ratings are down. That shows it’s not a talent issue and a talent influx wouldn’t fix the issue.

The issue is larger. 82 games, load management, flopping, replay reviews, moving screens, jacking up 3s, ect.

If there’s more star power than ever then ratings should be going up.

[Marvin Martian]

Of course. The only players playing at a high level are foreign.

Zion and Ja have been complete disappointments

[cornchip]

True but the younger kids don't watch sports like how we used to while growing up. Most of us watched NBA, NFL, and MLB religiously, then we tried to emulate them on the playground and on the court. These kids are watching streamers play video games and Youtube, Tik Tok, and want to be influencers. No NBA excuses, but its a much different era now. It was simpler back in the late 80's and 90's.

but they would if the product was better. How do you explain NFL ratings then? Kids will watch what is fun and happening. When I was a kid growing up the NBA was fun because there were titans from the 70s still around (Kareem, Dr. J, Moses, etc) and new faces (Bird, Magic, Isiah, MJ) and the product was at its zenith. Kids would watch if the product was better. The NBA should be garnering attention especially with how much more popular it is overseas but the product stinks and kids aren't interested. Combined with old heads turned off for a variety of valid reasons and that's why ratings are down.

The NFL is America's darling and has the country in a chokehold. But yet the Chiefs win every year and the NFL's games are spread all over multiple platforms: ABC, ESPN, CBS, FOX, NFL Network, Amazon, Peacock, and two Christmas Day games on Netflix this season. The NBA would get blasted for that, but the good ol NFL always gets a pass no matter what. And I don't even believe kids are watching the NFL that much either. It's just that America, especially white America, can't get enough of it. Yeah, the World Series had the Dodgers vs Yankees, but nobody is watching baseball like how we used to watch it as kids. When will the NHL break out?

And I agree that the NBA stars were better back in the day, but that was also the thing that nearly doomed them as Stern, CBS, and later NBC became all things Magic, Bird, and Jordan and then focused/promoted stars instead of teams. Me and a couple of friends had the debate that the NFL blew up and skyrocketed into the behemoth that is it today is when Jordan retired.

Imo, every sport had better stars back in the day. He'll, MLB's stars were right up there with the NBA & NFL stars in the 80's & 90's. The complaints should be all across the board and not just directed at the NBA. The NFL will always get a pass because it's only 16 games, they market teams better(players faces are also hidden with helmets and tons of padding helps it ten fold), and it seems like like Goodell and the league doesn't allow its broadcast partners to rip the league and it's players like the NBA does. Half of TNT's Inside The NBA and ESPN is ripping the league to shreds. For the NFL Green Bay, Wisconsin is the grand and wonderful "Frozen Tundra" and "The house that Lombardi built". Meanwhile SAS is live on air saying he doesn't want to go to Milwaukee to cover a playoff game. He wants to go to Miami, LA, or NYC. As if he doesn't make enough money to go to those cities on his own dime. That the sh*t that's also hurting the league imo. I think the criticism should go all across the board.

I don't know, the NFL is pretty big among all demographics from what I see...young, old, white, black, latino, male, female. College football seems more popular than ever with kids too.

I think the MLB of 15, 20 years ago is almost a perfect comparison of what's happening now:

- Analytics visibly affecting the way the game is played. MLB essentially told us the statistics we grew up with...batting avg, RBI's, pitching wins didn't matter and they lost folks. Same thing with NBA's obsession over "efficiency". Nobody really wants to see a relief pitcher strike out a bunch of batters chasing HR's just like nobody wants to see 50 threes a game in a NBA game.

- Highly marketable but aging stars being replaced by international stars. Griffey, Bonds, Chipper, Jeter, ARod, even Manny, Pedro, Ichiro being replaced by Pujols, Miggy, Beltre, etc. Great players and personalities but not that marketable.

- Aftermath of some pretty damaging blows to fans. Nothing in the NBA was like the MLB's steroid scandal but load management and superteams really hurt the NBA's brand imo.

The MLB was aggressive with rule changes which really helped imo. The NBA needs to follow suit. Eliminate the corner 3, bring back more ways to defend (handchecking) and the NBA is halfway there.

[Milenkovic]

When all the major sports networks solely talk about certain teams and markets, and wonder why there's lesser interest in other teams, it speaks for itself

[djsunyc]

Read on Twitter

[djsunyc]

what we have learned about the united states is that media can shape many things and that facts dont necessarily play a part in things.

the narrative that 3 point shooting is bad for the league and makes it unwatchable is influenced alot by media. instead of saying how skill level has improved so much, it's often portrayed as the opposite.

this has been the message that mostly former players have repeated, in part, bc they are jealous of the development of the game and the money they are getting and old man screaming at clouds.

if the constant message was positive about the game, the 3 point stuff wouldnt be an issue. it really is amazing how this is the only sport who gets negative coverage like this.

[The High Cyde]

I also got rid of cable. For the most part Sling doesn't give many Laker or Clipper games so I have to illegally Stream. It's really stupid how they black out local teams

I subbed to YouTube TV and league pass the other day and came across just this, and it was infuriating, I’m still in the free trial period right now and might not pick it up

[ItsDanger]

what we have learned about the united states is that media can shape many things and that facts dont necessarily play a part in things.

the narrative that 3 point shooting is bad for the league and makes it unwatchable is influenced alot by media. instead of saying how skill level has improved so much, it's often portrayed as the opposite.

this has been the message that mostly former players have repeated, in part, bc they are jealous of the development of the game and the money they are getting and old man screaming at clouds.

if the constant message was positive about the game, the 3 point stuff wouldnt be an issue. it really is amazing how this is the only sport who gets negative coverage like this.

That's your opinion but don't project it onto others. Media hasn't influenced me in any significant way. The 3 pt style is repetitive which makes it boring. That's not the only issue but it's a big one.

[LockoutSeason]

Read on Twitter

The NBA’s declines are discussed largely in isolation, creating the popular perception that it is the only league whose viewership is down, the only league whose viewership is down considerably from a decade-plus ago, and that the decline is disastrous. The first two of those claims are demonstrably untrue

[bledredwine]

Too bad American audiences aren't tuning in for any of those guys. Tatum is the closest to being a young American born star and even he couldn't get minutes on the Olympic team.

I've got to be honest.

I look at that list and only consider five of them legit superstars.
In terms of highest level star power, it's not the most exciting moment in NBA history.

First, guys like Jokic, Luka and Giannis will all end up being top 25 players of all-time in all likelihood. Jokic and Giannis already have a case for top 25 of all-time. These are historically great players.

Second, some of these guys are extremely young and will become superstars by their mid to late 20s.

Wemby - 20
Edwards - 23
Banchero - 22
Wagner - 23
Holmgron - 22
Hali - 24
Maxey - 24
Mobley - 23
Barnes - 23
Sengun - 22
Lamelo - 23
Cade - 23

Third, remember that players like Harden didn't become superstar level players until year 6, Curry didn't become a superstar until year 5, Kawhi didn't become a superstar until year 5, Giannis didn't become a superstar until year 5...even Jokic didn't become a full fledged superstar level player until about year 4/5.

Also remember there are players that will turn into superstars that we don't event expect. Nobody expected guys like Nash or Curry to become MVP level players during their first 5 years in the league. They weren't on anyone's radar. Very few predicted late 1st and 2nd round players like Butler, Lowry, Manu, Arenas, Rondo, Parker etc. would be perennial all-star players.

I disagree entirely...the talent right now is just unbelievable and the star power is much deeper than ever.

I can't agree with that.

Generally, by year 3 you get an idea of a player's ceiling, and none of those players are particularly exceptional in terms of skill ceiling.

I would love for them to be, but I don't see any of the Americans touching the well-rounded post games or team play of the international players; Jokic, Luka, Giannis, etc. That hits different. They're limited in that regard.

You're naming guys like Hali, Maxey... there's just no way. LaMelo? Possible, but he has a PER of 21. He has a ways to go.

[Scoundreldays]

I also got rid of cable. For the most part Sling doesn't give many Laker or Clipper games so I have to illegally Stream. It's really stupid how they black out local teams

I subbed to YouTube TV and league pass the other day and came across just this, and it was infuriating, I’m still in the free trial period right now and might not pick it up

Exactly I'm not paying $100+ or whatever it was for Cox cable to just watch local games. Until the league figures it out people will continue to do this.

[zeebneeb]

Love watching the league burn. Hopefully there is a contraction, salaries drop by 80%, and maybe bankrupt completely.

**** the NBA.

[Lala870]

ESPN/NBA marketed Tmac when he played in Orlando.

ESPN/NBA marketed Vince when he played in Toronto.

ESPN/NBA marketed KG when he played in Minnesota.

ESPN/NBA marketed Westbrook when he played in OKC.

ESPN/NBA marketed Reggie Miller when he played in Indiana.

ESPN/NBA marketed the 2002 Kings when they played in Sacramento.

My point is that someone playing in a small market isn’t an excuse to not market them.

The NBA markets Zion and Ant. Eventually they'll market Ja when the gun stuff blows over. It might just be that these guys don't have the historic star potential we think they have, as well as the vast majority of people being distracted by the rest of the world instead of everyone tuning into the same game in the 90s.

People in this thread have to come to terms with the fact that what's generally good for league viewership may not be the same as what you consider good. We're posting on an early 2000s internet forum. To say we're a niche part of NBA fandom would be an understatement.

It feels like I've seen more marketing about Bronny this year than Zion, Ant, or Ja, and it seems like Lebron, Curry, and Durant are the stars of the league who get the most marketing.

Luka by far gets the most marketing from what ive seen. I dont watch ESPN but Luka, Wemby, Jokic etc get all the marketing.

They are making the NBA an American-European league