NBA viewership down

[K N U C K L E S]

I mean... The product hasn't been entertaining recently...

It's better than the last couple of years imo

Maybe people are getting fed up with the 3 point insanity.

[Quentin]

Pop didn't exactly do the NBA any favors with his political rant against Trump. Pretty dumb thing to do.

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

[TheGeneral99]

I've got to be honest.

I look at that list and only consider five of them legit superstars.
In terms of highest level star power, it's not the most exciting moment in NBA history.

First, guys like Jokic, Luka and Giannis will all end up being top 25 players of all-time in all likelihood. Jokic and Giannis already have a case for top 25 of all-time. These are historically great players.

Second, some of these guys are extremely young and will become superstars by their mid to late 20s.

Wemby - 20
Edwards - 23
Banchero - 22
Wagner - 23
Holmgron - 22
Hali - 24
Maxey - 24
Mobley - 23
Barnes - 23
Sengun - 22
Lamelo - 23
Cade - 23

Third, remember that players like Harden didn't become superstar level players until year 6, Curry didn't become a superstar until year 5, Kawhi didn't become a superstar until year 5, Giannis didn't become a superstar until year 5...even Jokic didn't become a full fledged superstar level player until about year 4/5.

Also remember there are players that will turn into superstars that we don't event expect. Nobody expected guys like Nash or Curry to become MVP level players during their first 5 years in the league. They weren't on anyone's radar. Very few predicted late 1st and 2nd round players like Butler, Lowry, Manu, Arenas, Rondo, Parker etc. would be perennial all-star players.

I disagree entirely...the talent right now is just unbelievable and the star power is much deeper than ever.

I can't agree with that.

Generally, by year 3 you get an idea of a player's ceiling, and none of those players are particularly exceptional in terms of skill ceiling.

I would love for them to be, but I don't see any of the Americans touching the well-rounded post games or team play of the international players; Jokic, Luka, Giannis, etc. That hits different. They're limited in that regard.

You're naming guys like Hali, Maxey... there's just no way. LaMelo? Possible, but he has a PER of 21. He has a ways to go.

I literally just provided you with examples of multiple superstar players over the past decade that we did not know their ceiling by year 3.

At year 3 Kawhi was considered a really nice 3+D player who didn't have an exceptional offensive arsenal. It was year 5 and year 6 were he really solidified himself as a real offensive weapon.

Curry his first 4 years was seen as a really nice shooter but nobody expected him to completely dominate the league and become a top 10-15 of all time.

Jokic by 2017 in his 3rd year was considered an all-star big man but nobody was anticipating he would be an MVP caliber player posting prime Lebron numbers.

[bledredwine]

First, guys like Jokic, Luka and Giannis will all end up being top 25 players of all-time in all likelihood. Jokic and Giannis already have a case for top 25 of all-time. These are historically great players.

Second, some of these guys are extremely young and will become superstars by their mid to late 20s.

Wemby - 20
Edwards - 23
Banchero - 22
Wagner - 23
Holmgron - 22
Hali - 24
Maxey - 24
Mobley - 23
Barnes - 23
Sengun - 22
Lamelo - 23
Cade - 23

Third, remember that players like Harden didn't become superstar level players until year 6, Curry didn't become a superstar until year 5, Kawhi didn't become a superstar until year 5, Giannis didn't become a superstar until year 5...even Jokic didn't become a full fledged superstar level player until about year 4/5.

Also remember there are players that will turn into superstars that we don't event expect. Nobody expected guys like Nash or Curry to become MVP level players during their first 5 years in the league. They weren't on anyone's radar. Very few predicted late 1st and 2nd round players like Butler, Lowry, Manu, Arenas, Rondo, Parker etc. would be perennial all-star players.

I disagree entirely...the talent right now is just unbelievable and the star power is much deeper than ever.

I can't agree with that.

Generally, by year 3 you get an idea of a player's ceiling, and none of those players are particularly exceptional in terms of skill ceiling.

I would love for them to be, but I don't see any of the Americans touching the well-rounded post games or team play of the international players; Jokic, Luka, Giannis, etc. That hits different. They're limited in that regard.

You're naming guys like Hali, Maxey... there's just no way. LaMelo? Possible, but he has a PER of 21. He has a ways to go.

I literally just provided you with examples of multiple superstar players over the past decade that we did not know their ceiling by year 3.

At year 3 Kawhi was considered a really nice 3+D player who didn't have an exceptional offensive arsenal. It was year 5 and year 6 were he really solidified himself as a real offensive weapon.

Curry his first 4 years was seen as a really nice shooter but nobody expected him to completely dominate the league and become a top 10-15 of all time.

Jokic by 2017 in his 3rd year was considered an all-star big man but nobody was anticipating he would be an MVP caliber player posting prime Lebron numbers.

You’re right and those are great examples, but they’re the exception, not the rule. I’d also disagree with Jokic because though he wasn’t what he is now, he still had a 24 PER and obvious high skill ceiling unlike those guys. Who do you really believe out of your list can reach that level? It’s rare to find someone who can attain that level, and even for Kawhi, how much of his career has he actually been playing?

With Steph and Kawhi both, you could also see the tools and potential to achieve that ceiling as well. In the list you mentioned, I may see that with a couple of guys…. obviously Wemby and Ant, two of my favorite players, but I’ve found Ant’s improvement this year to be disappointing and it’s his fifth year. It’s a lot of lower level star talent.

[celtics543]

Talent depth isn't the issue. Personality depth is the issue. Guys like Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Magic, all had charisma. AI, Kobe, Shaq, etc had charisma. Lebron and Curry had charisma.

Guys today are so worried about their brand that they display no personality at all. No one is going to care about your talent if you have no charisma. Anthony Edwards is the one guy who shows a personality but he's stuck in Minnesota.

It's why Pro Wrestling has had a huge following but Olympic wrestling is boring and no one cares. People want entertainment, skill optional.

[Marvin Martian]

Pop didn't exactly do the NBA any favors with his political rant against Trump. Pretty dumb thing to do.

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

By letting his wife endorse Trump for him?

[Mephariel]

Pop didn't exactly do the NBA any favors with his political rant against Trump. Pretty dumb thing to do.

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

Why? Taylor Swift endorses candidates. Actors do it. Why can't athletes? How is that dumb? Doesn't that make them more authentic? The problem with the NHL and why they can't market their stars for **** is because they are groomed to say nothing. Basketball has always been a personality driven league.

Also, Silver is right. The interest in the league isn't fading. Attendance is at an all time high. Social media following is at an all time high. People are just not consuming the product on TV like they used to.

[sikma42]

Pop didn't exactly do the NBA any favors with his political rant against Trump. Pretty dumb thing to do.

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

Seems like you might have the issue. If someone decides to share who they are voting for…and that triggers you..then chances the issue is with you


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[SkyHook]

Talent depth isn't the issue. Personality depth is the issue. Guys like Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Magic, all had charisma. AI, Kobe, Shaq, etc had charisma. Lebron and Curry had charisma.

Guys today are so worried about their brand that they display no personality at all. No one is going to care about your talent if you have no charisma. Anthony Edwards is the one guy who shows a personality but he's stuck in Minnesota.

It's why Pro Wrestling has had a huge following but Olympic wrestling is boring and no one cares. People want entertainment, skill optional.

No, the problem isn't that Edwards is "stuck" in Minnesota. The problem is the way the league promotes teams, force feeding the Lakers (among others) even when they're having garbage seasons. The NFL doesn't have contempt for their smaller markets the way the NBA does.

[mg]

Talent depth isn't the issue. Personality depth is the issue. Guys like Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Magic, all had charisma. AI, Kobe, Shaq, etc had charisma. Lebron and Curry had charisma.

Guys today are so worried about their brand that they display no personality at all. No one is going to care about your talent if you have no charisma. Anthony Edwards is the one guy who shows a personality but he's stuck in Minnesota.

It's why Pro Wrestling has had a huge following but Olympic wrestling is boring and no one cares. People want entertainment, skill optional.

Agreed. This is a huge issue for a sport that has always elevated their players over teams.

Not to mention individual games hardly matter anymore. Sub .500 records get you into the play in. There's really not much reason for casuals to tune until the games actually matter in April thru June.

[Dan33185]

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

By letting his wife endorse Trump for him?

Implying he controls what his wife thinks and does.

[Rainwater]

I just don’t understand why this thread has not died yet. Every indication is the league is doing great yet people want to see the league fail.

[Charlie Sollers]

I just don’t understand why this thread has not died yet. Every indication is the league is doing great yet people want to see the league fail.

It's the most bizarre thing. No other sports league has its fans as invested in the ratings as NBA "fans".

[G35]

What? You think that this is a significant reason for the decrease in viewership?

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

By letting his wife endorse Trump for him?

What do you mean by "letting" his wife endorse Trump? Do you think Mahomes should tell his wife what to do? Should Mahomes control his wife's voting habits? How would that play out if somehow his wife let it slip that Patrick had told his wife what to do?

Do you think all the progressives and media would not have a field day with that revelation?....

[Rainwater]

I just don’t understand why this thread has not died yet. Every indication is the league is doing great yet people want to see the league fail.

It's the most bizarre thing. No other sports league has its fans as invested in the ratings as NBA "fans".

Yeah, this is crazy. The only other sports league I can think of is baseball a few years back but the fear was based on reality. Their ratings were falling in the key demographic of 18 to 35. But that is not the case with the NBA, they are truly doing well.

[Gant]

When asked why, he said, "I don't like watching the games."

Read on Twitter

[azcatz11]

I just don’t understand why this thread has not died yet. Every indication is the league is doing great yet people want to see the league fail.

It's the most bizarre thing. No other sports league has its fans as invested in the ratings as NBA "fans".

Yeah, this is crazy. The only other sports league I can think of is baseball a few years back but the fear was based on reality. Their ratings were falling in the key demographic of 18 to 35. But that is not the case with the NBA, they are truly doing well.

No one wants to see the league fail. People are frustrated because the NBA won't fix it's officiating problem and puts band-aids on everything. The 3 point thing is what it is...there is no solution for that.

Everyone was happy last year after the AS game when they let them play...and that went away. Why did it go away?

[Rainwater]

When asked why, he said, "I don't like watching the games."

Read on Twitter

What are we supposed to gauge from this? He doesn’t provide a reason why he doesn’t watch.

[Rainwater]

It's the most bizarre thing. No other sports league has its fans as invested in the ratings as NBA "fans".

Yeah, this is crazy. The only other sports league I can think of is baseball a few years back but the fear was based on reality. Their ratings were falling in the key demographic of 18 to 35. But that is not the case with the NBA, they are truly doing well.

No one wants to see the league fail. People are frustrated because the NBA won't fix it's officiating problem and puts band-aids on everything. The 3 point thing is what it is...there is no solution for that.

Everyone was happy last year after the AS game when they let them play...and that went away. Why did it go away?

Who is everyone that is my issue? Most indicators say the sport is doing well, people are watching. It just seems like the die hards, old heads, and purest are the ones with the issue. I feel like even though the sport is doing very well many of these old heads are not happy with what the game has become.

[Marvin Martian]

Not entirely.

I'll add in Kerr, LeBron, and Doc. Mahomes did it the right way. Athletes (and other celebrities) need to stay out of endorsing candidates. I know I was disappointed. I have an "F them" attitude now.

By letting his wife endorse Trump for him?

What do you mean by "letting" his wife endorse Trump? Do you think Mahomes should tell his wife what to do? Should Mahomes control his wife's voting habits? How would that play out if somehow his wife let it slip that Patrick had told his wife what to do?

Do you think all the progressives and media would not have a field day with that revelation?....

Of course they would. Because this is the same crowd that got upset when NFL players were kneeling during the anthem. It would make perfect sense for him to get his wife to make the endorsement. That way he can announce his support while avoiding any calls of hypocrisy.