Where can Lavine thrive ?

[BigGargamel]

After checking out the Real GM front page and reading that LaVine for MPJ rumor, I got depressed. Please, for the love of God, don't do that.

[Alatan]

Orlando would be good but they would have to give up so much of their good depth to get him. But then again if they can keep Franz and Paolo I still would roll the dice on that big 3.

Another team is Denver imo. I know others would say this is too much but I would’ve traded Murray/MPJ for Lavine. I think Lavine’s ceiling is still untapped a little it’s just he’s been on mediocre/bad team for most of his career the motivation might not be there. Put him on a team with a legitimate shot and I think he’ll shine.

Having Lavine next to MPJ/Murray and Jokic is suicide defensively. Denver can barely aford to play MPJ, Murray and Jokic as is.

[Dez]

It works from a salary perspective. I just don't really like the fit.

It's literally a perfect fit.

LaVine has become underrated, dude is an elite scoring talent and is not the horrible defender people make him out to be.

I don't think its perfect. It's better than most options that work, but it's definitely not "perfect". The Magic don't want to take touches out of Wagner or Bancheros hands, so Lavine would be a 3rd Option there and that would bump Suggs down to 4th option. Right now Suggs is taking 14 shots per game, that number is already gonna go down when Banchero gets back. Is it worth paying Lavine to be taking 12-13 shots per game while taking those shots from Suggs and bumping him down to 8 or 9 shots? Additionally, its also adding 30+ minutes of having a "not horrible" defensive player on the court. Right now their entire rotation is filled with + defensive players. I think it would just mess with the makeup. They are a tough, get in your shorts defensive team that is gonna outwork teams and grind out every possession. I don't watch a ton of Bulls games, so go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesnt sound like Lavine.

LaVine is a better offensive player than Wagner, he is scoring an efficient 20+ points with a 25.2% usage rate.

They aren't winning **** without more offense.

[RookieStar]

It works from a salary perspective. I just don't really like the fit.

It's literally a perfect fit.

LaVine has become underrated, dude is an elite scoring talent and is not the horrible defender people make him out to be.

I don't think its perfect. It's better than most options that work, but it's definitely not "perfect". The Magic don't want to take touches out of Wagner or Bancheros hands, so Lavine would be a 3rd Option there and that would bump Suggs down to 4th option. Right now Suggs is taking 14 shots per game, that number is already gonna go down when Banchero gets back. Is it worth paying Lavine to be taking 12-13 shots per game while taking those shots from Suggs and bumping him down to 8 or 9 shots? Additionally, its also adding 30+ minutes of having a "not horrible" defensive player on the court. Right now their entire rotation is filled with + defensive players. I think it would just mess with the makeup. They are a tough, get in your shorts defensive team that is gonna outwork teams and grind out every possession. I don't watch a ton of Bulls games, so go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesnt sound like Lavine.

As a Magic fan, YES, we prefer it if Suggs take less shots and concentrate more on the defensive side which he gets gassed more quickly now without Paolo/Franz and he tries to carry the team.

As long as Laving does not share time a lot with MoeWagner, our lineup can cover for Lavine.

[Scalabrine]

Yeah...no. You need another 20-30m to balance the salaries I think. Lavine is too expensive

It works from a salary perspective. I just don't really like the fit.

Lavine on paper is a perfect fit for me. Just that when the salary extensiona kicks in... we are dead.

Wow, im interested to hear why you think it's perfect. I don't see it personally but I'd love to here why an actual fan of the team does.

[Scalabrine]

It's literally a perfect fit.

LaVine has become underrated, dude is an elite scoring talent and is not the horrible defender people make him out to be.

I don't personally hate the fit for the Magic if you ignore financials. They have some solid bigs, Banchero and Wagner have shown potential as playmaking forwards, and Suggs/KCP/Lavine give you a lot of options to work, being a decent fit defensively and offensively.

However, it comes down to the fact that the Magic would have to break that team up as early as next year. I don't agree with how Minnesota cut costs, but their moves this offseason is a great example of how important it is for teams to stay below the second tax apron.

With a potential Lavine trade, the Magic's payroll next year would be:


Lavine: 46mm
F.Wagner: 38.6m
Suggs: 35m
KCP: 21.6m
Banchero: 15.3m
Carter: 10.85m
Bitadze: 8.3m
Black: 8m

Thats over 183m for 8 players.

That makes it virtually impossible to avoid the second apron.

That's assuming you don't pick up any of your other team options, including that of Mo Wagner's.

That means you basically only have vet minimums to fill out the rest of your roster unless you manage to dump some salary, not to mention the other restrictions that come with being over the second apron....and that's excluding the Extension you have to give to Banchero which will kick in for 26-27.

Basically, a Lavine trade would only make sense if it makes the Magic a legitimate contender, as early as this year or next. Even if ends up being a great fit basketball wise, it's a terrible fit financial wise and timeline wise.

Before the new CBA, sure, I would tell the Magic to go for it, assuming they ownership was willing to spend more on the luxury tax. But in the current CBA, it's not just about how much the ownership spends....it's a whole other level of restrictions that makes this incredibly unlikely from the Orlando side.

This should be stickied and cemented in stone.

Beautifully written and executed perfect.

There is no other acceptable answer.

The ONLY pathway for Lavine to Orlando is him being bought out this summer (highly unlikely) and Orlando signing him to a 1 yr. prove it deal.

What about moving KCP in the deal. You send out a little more money and cut some existing payroll as well. I still don't like the fit and for the reasons you listed I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I considered it a challenge when you started speaking in absolutes

[RookieStar]

It works from a salary perspective. I just don't really like the fit.

Lavine on paper is a perfect fit for me. Just that when the salary extensiona kicks in... we are dead.

Wow, im interested to hear why you think it's perfect. I don't see it personally but I'd love to here why an actual fan of the team does.

Alright.

As you know or should know, we are probably deadlast in 3pt percentage. Its like we have this Magic curse where good shooters loses their ability. ( see evidence A = KCP , a near 40% career 3pt shooter now down to 28%). I mean this ish is so bad I bet if we had signed prime Curry in our team right now, all Magic fans wouldn't raise an eyebrow if you tell us that he dropped to 30% 3pt.

So you know that we need Lavines 3pt threat AND he can be the beneficiary for Paolo's passes. Franz does not really need the ball and create on his own that much cuz his strength ever since his rookie year was the recipient of passes and in the position to score. I mean he could do it as evidenced this season with Paolo out, but he doesnt need to. So when Lavine has the ball, that means the opponents best defender wouldnt be on him, it would be on Paolo and Franz.

And yeah, Suggs is our POA and the best defender on the opponents best guard. So we can surround LAvine with the defense in the SL or in the bench wherein guys like AB and JI would also clean up his mistakes.

[NZB2323]

He can sure thrive on the Nuggets with Jokic setting him up.

I’m not sure how good Denver’s defense can be though with Murray, Lavine, and Jokic.

[Scalabrine]

Lavine on paper is a perfect fit for me. Just that when the salary extensiona kicks in... we are dead.

Wow, im interested to hear why you think it's perfect. I don't see it personally but I'd love to here why an actual fan of the team does.

Alright.

As you know or should know, we are probably deadlast in 3pt percentage. Its like we have this Magic curse where good shooters loses their ability. ( see evidence A = KCP , a near 40% career 3pt shooter now down to 28%). I mean this ish is so bad I bet if we had signed prime Curry in our team right now, all Magic fans wouldn't raise an eyebrow if you tell us that he dropped to 30% 3pt.

So you know that we need Lavines 3pt threat AND he can be the beneficiary for Paolo's passes. Franz does not really need the ball and create on his own that much cuz his strength ever since his rookie year was the recipient of passes and in the position to score. I mean he could do it as evidenced this season with Paolo out, but he doesnt need to. So when Lavine has the ball, that means the opponents best defender wouldnt be on him, it would be on Paolo and Franz.

And yeah, Suggs is our POA and the best defender on the opponents best guard. So we can surround LAvine with the defense in the SL or in the bench wherein guys like AB and JI would also clean up his mistakes.

Sold. Thanks.

I've never really considered Lavine a volume shooter from three but he's been getting them up this year. Still, less than 50% of his shots come from 3 and assuming he'd be taking KCP's spot in the starting lineup, youre pretty much asking Lavine to be THE floor spacer on that starting unit, which is a role I don't think he's really played before. I'm sure he's be able to do it because he's a good shooter, but he's always been more of a creator and likes to get his shots up, in Orlando he'd be more of a role player and 3rd or 4th option.

[Scalabrine]

It's literally a perfect fit.

LaVine has become underrated, dude is an elite scoring talent and is not the horrible defender people make him out to be.

I don't think its perfect. It's better than most options that work, but it's definitely not "perfect". The Magic don't want to take touches out of Wagner or Bancheros hands, so Lavine would be a 3rd Option there and that would bump Suggs down to 4th option. Right now Suggs is taking 14 shots per game, that number is already gonna go down when Banchero gets back. Is it worth paying Lavine to be taking 12-13 shots per game while taking those shots from Suggs and bumping him down to 8 or 9 shots? Additionally, its also adding 30+ minutes of having a "not horrible" defensive player on the court. Right now their entire rotation is filled with + defensive players. I think it would just mess with the makeup. They are a tough, get in your shorts defensive team that is gonna outwork teams and grind out every possession. I don't watch a ton of Bulls games, so go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesnt sound like Lavine.

LaVine is a better offensive player than Wagner, he is scoring an efficient 20+ points with a 25.2% usage rate.

They aren't winning **** without more offense.

On a team thats always been a loser with him as the primary option. He's definitely an efficient player, but does he do the other stuff? Does the ball stick when it gets to him? Can he adapt his role to being more of a floor spacer instead of a creator? You'd know better than me.

[RookieStar]

Wow, im interested to hear why you think it's perfect. I don't see it personally but I'd love to here why an actual fan of the team does.

Alright.

As you know or should know, we are probably deadlast in 3pt percentage. Its like we have this Magic curse where good shooters loses their ability. ( see evidence A = KCP , a near 40% career 3pt shooter now down to 28%). I mean this ish is so bad I bet if we had signed prime Curry in our team right now, all Magic fans wouldn't raise an eyebrow if you tell us that he dropped to 30% 3pt.

So you know that we need Lavines 3pt threat AND he can be the beneficiary for Paolo's passes. Franz does not really need the ball and create on his own that much cuz his strength ever since his rookie year was the recipient of passes and in the position to score. I mean he could do it as evidenced this season with Paolo out, but he doesnt need to. So when Lavine has the ball, that means the opponents best defender wouldnt be on him, it would be on Paolo and Franz.

And yeah, Suggs is our POA and the best defender on the opponents best guard. So we can surround LAvine with the defense in the SL or in the bench wherein guys like AB and JI would also clean up his mistakes.

Sold. Thanks.

I've never really considered Lavine a volume shooter from three but he's been getting them up this year. Still, less than 50% of his shots come from 3 and assuming he'd be taking KCP's spot in the starting lineup, youre pretty much asking Lavine to be THE floor spacer on that starting unit, which is a role I don't think he's really played before. I'm sure he's be able to do it because he's a good shooter, but he's always been more of a creator and likes to get his shots up, in Orlando he'd be more of a role player and 3rd or 4th option.

We kinda play 4 out with Goga the only one in the dunker spot. Suggs is a 3 and D guard while Franz is also respectable in the perimeter. We really just need the lane to open up for Paolo who you know can and will bully 99% of the league to the hole.

[basketballRob]

I don't personally hate the fit for the Magic if you ignore financials. They have some solid bigs, Banchero and Wagner have shown potential as playmaking forwards, and Suggs/KCP/Lavine give you a lot of options to work, being a decent fit defensively and offensively.

However, it comes down to the fact that the Magic would have to break that team up as early as next year. I don't agree with how Minnesota cut costs, but their moves this offseason is a great example of how important it is for teams to stay below the second tax apron.

With a potential Lavine trade, the Magic's payroll next year would be:


Lavine: 46mm
F.Wagner: 38.6m
Suggs: 35m
KCP: 21.6m
Banchero: 15.3m
Carter: 10.85m
Bitadze: 8.3m
Black: 8m

Thats over 183m for 8 players.

That makes it virtually impossible to avoid the second apron.

That's assuming you don't pick up any of your other team options, including that of Mo Wagner's.

That means you basically only have vet minimums to fill out the rest of your roster unless you manage to dump some salary, not to mention the other restrictions that come with being over the second apron....and that's excluding the Extension you have to give to Banchero which will kick in for 26-27.

Basically, a Lavine trade would only make sense if it makes the Magic a legitimate contender, as early as this year or next. Even if ends up being a great fit basketball wise, it's a terrible fit financial wise and timeline wise.

Before the new CBA, sure, I would tell the Magic to go for it, assuming they ownership was willing to spend more on the luxury tax. But in the current CBA, it's not just about how much the ownership spends....it's a whole other level of restrictions that makes this incredibly unlikely from the Orlando side.

This should be stickied and cemented in stone.

Beautifully written and executed perfect.

There is no other acceptable answer.

The ONLY pathway for Lavine to Orlando is him being bought out this summer (highly unlikely) and Orlando signing him to a 1 yr. prove it deal.

What about moving KCP in the deal. You send out a little more money and cut some existing payroll as well. I still don't like the fit and for the reasons you listed I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I considered it a challenge when you started speaking in absolutes

The Magic 100% will not trade for Lavine. He isn't a two-way player and he's too expensive. You can speculate, but there is zero chance it happens. I personally think he isn't a winning player.

The Magic are probably a top 3 or 4 seed in the east when healthy already.

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[Dez]

I don't think its perfect. It's better than most options that work, but it's definitely not "perfect". The Magic don't want to take touches out of Wagner or Bancheros hands, so Lavine would be a 3rd Option there and that would bump Suggs down to 4th option. Right now Suggs is taking 14 shots per game, that number is already gonna go down when Banchero gets back. Is it worth paying Lavine to be taking 12-13 shots per game while taking those shots from Suggs and bumping him down to 8 or 9 shots? Additionally, its also adding 30+ minutes of having a "not horrible" defensive player on the court. Right now their entire rotation is filled with + defensive players. I think it would just mess with the makeup. They are a tough, get in your shorts defensive team that is gonna outwork teams and grind out every possession. I don't watch a ton of Bulls games, so go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesnt sound like Lavine.

LaVine is a better offensive player than Wagner, he is scoring an efficient 20+ points with a 25.2% usage rate.

They aren't winning **** without more offense.

On a team thats always been a loser with him as the primary option. He's definitely an efficient player, but does he do the other stuff? Does the ball stick when it gets to him? Can he adapt his role to being more of a floor spacer instead of a creator? You'd know better than me.

It's exactly what he's been doing this year.

He's not responsible for being a part of **** teams, when he was a part of the Ball/Derozan season that unfortunately derailed with Ball's injury the Bulls were the number 1 seed until that point.

He's never been a ball-hog nor selfish, he's a incredibly hard-working player and professional.

I'd personally love to see him on the Nuggets with Joker or the Warriors with Steph, he'd be absolutely lethal.

[SFrush]

Maybe the spurs. The contract is still very bad. I don't see a contender trading for him.

[Scalabrine]

This should be stickied and cemented in stone.

Beautifully written and executed perfect.

There is no other acceptable answer.

The ONLY pathway for Lavine to Orlando is him being bought out this summer (highly unlikely) and Orlando signing him to a 1 yr. prove it deal.

What about moving KCP in the deal. You send out a little more money and cut some existing payroll as well. I still don't like the fit and for the reasons you listed I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I considered it a challenge when you started speaking in absolutes

The Magic 100% will not trade for Lavine. He isn't a two-way player and he's too expensive. You can speculate, but there is zero chance it happens. I personally think he isn't a winning player.

The Magic are probably a top 3 or 4 seed in the east when healthy already.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

For the record, I have said multiple times in this thread that I don't think he's a good fit on the Magic. It's been Magic fans that have told me he's a good fit, so I started entertaining that idea in the post you quoted. I think they should keep what they got going and if they are gonna do anything, just move around the margins. Trade Isaac or Anthony for another good veteran ball handling guard that can backup Suggs and play next to him in some lineups. Someone like Colin Sexton makes more sense to me or even Chris Paul if the Spurs fall out of it. They don't need another guy thats gonna expect to get the same amount of shots as Banchero and Wagner.

[Scalabrine]

LaVine is a better offensive player than Wagner, he is scoring an efficient 20+ points with a 25.2% usage rate.

They aren't winning **** without more offense.

On a team thats always been a loser with him as the primary option. He's definitely an efficient player, but does he do the other stuff? Does the ball stick when it gets to him? Can he adapt his role to being more of a floor spacer instead of a creator? You'd know better than me.

It's exactly what he's been doing this year.

He's not responsible for being a part of **** teams, when he was a part of the Ball/Derozan season that unfortunately derailed with Ball's injury the Bulls were the number 1 seed until that point.

He's never been a ball-hog nor selfish, he's a incredibly hard-working player and professional.

I'd personally love to see him on the Nuggets with Joker or the Warriors with Steph, he'd be absolutely lethal.

If he's so good then why don't the Bulls just keep him? Why doesn't he deserve any blame for being apart of these bad teams. He's been the highest paid player on all of those teams. He makes too much money for those teams to trade for him.

[Anderson Hunt]

It's in Denver or on the Lakers.

Both these teams have 40 million dollars of salary that they're wasting (the cost of LaVine's contract).

He'd be especially lethal in Denver.

[basketballRob]

What about moving KCP in the deal. You send out a little more money and cut some existing payroll as well. I still don't like the fit and for the reasons you listed I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I considered it a challenge when you started speaking in absolutes

The Magic 100% will not trade for Lavine. He isn't a two-way player and he's too expensive. You can speculate, but there is zero chance it happens. I personally think he isn't a winning player.

The Magic are probably a top 3 or 4 seed in the east when healthy already.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

For the record, I have said multiple times in this thread that I don't think he's a good fit on the Magic. It's been Magic fans that have told me he's a good fit, so I started entertaining that idea in the post you quoted. I think they should keep what they got going and if they are gonna do anything, just move around the margins. Trade Isaac or Anthony for another good veteran ball handling guard that can backup Suggs and play next to him in some lineups. Someone like Colin Sexton makes more sense to me or even Chris Paul if the Spurs fall out of it. They don't need another guy thats gonna expect to get the same amount of shots as Banchero and Wagner.

If they make a trade, it could revolve around Cole for a player like Brogdon or Bogdanovic. Both players are expiring, and the Magic needs to drop around $12m in salary next season to stay under the tax threshold.

The only way I see them paying the tax is if the Magic make the ECF and the expiring player played a role.



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[Senor Chang]

Yeah...no. You need another 20-30m to balance the salaries I think. Lavine is too expensive

It works from a salary perspective. I just don't really like the fit.

It's literally a perfect fit.

LaVine has become underrated, dude is an elite scoring talent and is not the horrible defender people make him out to be.

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[Pointgod]

Lavine on Denver paired with Murray legit might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league. The team would have to run up the score every night which they could do with Jokic’s brilliance.