NBA Cup Suggestion

[YogurtProducer]

I debated between making a new thread and just posting in the existing NBA Cup thread. Figured with no games today and with the amount of thought that went into this why not post it here.

For starters - I for one love the idea of a mid-season tournament. On the other hand, I hate the current execution. The round robin is confusing, it is to short, it is NOT "mid-season", and there is nothing to the current format to me that screams in the future it will become a "staple".

So I decided to make my own format and thought as to how it would look with some more planning in it.

For starters - this format is assuming we expand to 32 teams to Seattle and Las Vegas.

Regular Season Schedule

Spoiler:

The regular season will be broken into 4 parts:

1. Regular Season - Part 1
- Held from October to December
- Each team will play everyone else in the league once

EACH WIN IS WORTH 1 POINT IN THE STANDINGS

2. NBA Cup Round Robin
The regular season "pauses" and the NBA Cup takes over the NBA for a stretch in the MIDDLE of the season.

- Begins on Christmas Day
- 16 game round robin Ends Super Bowl Weekend

EACH WIN IS WORTH 1 POINT IN THE STANDINGS

3. NBA Cup Knockout Round
Begins the day after the Super Bowl with the round of 16.

- Each teams will play 4 knockout games
- All games (including finals) count towards the year long standings
- Final 4 weekend will correspond with the NBA all-star game (Friday would be final 4, Saturday ASG, Sunday NBA Cup Finals)

EACH WIN IS WORTH 1 POINT IN THE STANDINGS

Furthermore, teams will receive points in standings based on where they finish in the NBA Cup as follows:

1st - 15
2nd - 10
3rd - 8
4th - 6
5th - 4
6th - 2
7th - 1

4. Regular Season - Part 2
- Held from March to April
- Each team will play everyone else in the league once

EACH WIN IS WORTH 1 POINT IN THE STANDINGS

NBA Cup Format
Divisions / Groups

Spoiler:

Teams will be broken up into two 16-team conferences, and eight 4-team divisions. These stay the same each year:
WEST
Pacific - Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas
California - LA Lakers, LA Clippers, Golden State, Sacramento
Mountain - Utah, Denver, OKC, Memphis
South - Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, New Orleans

EAST
Coastal - Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte
Midwest - Chicago, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Detroit (had to keep the NFC North together...)
North - Toronto, Indiana, Cleveland, Washington
Atlantic - Boston, New York, Brooklyn, Philadelphia

Schedule

Spoiler:

The schedule will follow the old 16-game NFL schedule to a tee.

- Each team plays twice against each of the other three teams in its division: once at home, and once on the road (six games).
- Each team plays once against each of the four teams from a predetermined division (based on a three-year rotation) within its own conference: two at home, and two on the road (four games).
- Each team plays once against one team from the remaining two divisions within its conference that finished in a similar placement in the final divisional standings in the prior season:one at home, one on the road (two games).
- Each team plays once against each of the four teams from a predetermined division (based on a four-year rotation) in the other conference: two at home, and two on the road (four games).

Note - divisions will be seeded based on the prior year NBA standings, NOT just the prior year NBA Cup finish.

Pros:
- Encourages and creates divisional rivalries
- Matches up top teams against each other more (great for TV)
- Not to long of a tournament, but long enough that teams are not eliminated by game 2 of the tourney

Knockout Round

Spoiler:

The 4 divisional winners will be seeded 1 thru 4, and the next 4 teams as wildcards 5 thru 8. These 8 teams qualify for the knockout rounds in each conference. The games will be single game elimination until we crown the winner, and there will be no re-seeding throughout the tournament.

The round of 16 and 8 will be held in the higher seeds arena.
The round of 4 and the championship will be held in the same city as the all-star game

NBA Playoffs

Spoiler:

Important part to remember is that each win is worth 1 point, with up to 15 bonus points available from placement in the NBA Cup.

Other changes I personally would make, but not related to NBA CUP:

1) No consideration of conferences for playoffs. Just take the top 16 teams (or 20 with the play-in) and call it that.
2) If you keep the conferences, at least re-seed in the conference finals so the top Eastern team plays the lowest remaining Western team. No more where the "best series" is before the NBA Finals.

[ropjhk]

It has to be simple. Any scheme that is too convoluted for busy sports fans is destined to fail.

[RoundMoundOfRebound]

Get rid of it.

[Lalouie]

better less distracting floors

maybe some players are advantaged because they are color blind

[BigGargamel]

Americans are dumb. We want our tournament to look like a bracket and be held at a certain time. We don't understand the regular season games counting as some standings thing, then we blink and see some random teams that actually made it out of that stage play in the actual "tournament". I know it's a common soccer thing, but we just don't understand it.

I know the logistics of getting all of the teams to Vegas would be impossible and way too expensive, but the best thing to do would get rid of the All Star game. Put a 2 or 3 week break during the middle of the season. Have a 32 team single elimination tournament (once the league expands). Have the All Star festivities (dunk contest, etc) during the Final Four weekend. Just make the tournament actually stand out instead of being some random thing going on during the first two months of the season. Seriously, no one cares about the games going on during the actual schedule. And no one is excited about a Finals game in the middle of December.

[YogurtProducer]

It has to be simple. Any scheme that is too convoluted for busy sports fans is destined to fail.

This is "simple". NFL fans everywhere seem to be able to figure their schedule out. Why cant the NBA fans comprehend the same thing?

I think the main factor holding it back right now is randomly a Tuesday is NBA cup night, but Wednesday isn't, etc.

Like Raptors played Miami in the Cup on a Friday night, and then played them again on Sunday in a non-cup game. Makes ZERO sense and I think what makes it tough to follow is the schedule is (seemingly) random unless you take significant time to follow it.

My suggestion sets aside a specific amount of time for the cup. Every game from Christmas to Super Bowl is the Cup. There is 6ish weeks here that it is the only NBA thing going on.

Get rid of it.

Why even make this post? Just don't pay attention if it bothers you.

[Godymas]

it really does feel like the NBA Cup could be executed better. For starters it needs to be done almost like a "March Madness" style of tournament where a whole month of the regular season becomes "Cup Season" and all games are only NBA Cup games.

Also it needs to have a true massive bracket similar to March Madness

actually the NBA just needs to copy March Madness, it's pathetic how the biggest college basketball tournament of the year manages to outdo the NBA for such a small period of time and big part of it is the history behind it as well as the extravagant idea of a Bo1 single knockout tournament.

Second of all, the lack of REGIONAL RIVALRY in the NBA might be the saddest thing in all of sports. Please MAKE THE DIVISIONS MATTER with the Cup. For god's sakes, the greatest thing about the NFL is that you have divisional rivalries every single year. The NBA is literally "we're the little guy and we hate the big bully dynasty competent org" every SINGLE team rivals either the Celtics or the Lakers, it's truly pathetic.

I kind of like the idea of the first month of the NBA regular season becomes purely the "Cup" in a Bo1 style knockout tournament, and the teams that get knocked out are scheduled to play regular season games. Plus this will really take advantage of the "hot starts" that players usually get every single year. The biggest weakness of the NBA is how inflexible they are at scheduling.

[ItsDanger]

The customer is always right. They're not impressed by this concept. Slight adjustments aren't likely to make significant impact.

[phanman]

It has to be simple. Any scheme that is too convoluted for busy sports fans is destined to fail.

This 100%.

Instead of completely revamping the Cup, I think slight tweaks to the format could definitely make it easier for anybody to follow. Some suggestions I had:

1) Instead of using previous record to determine group play, just use the existing divisions. It would bring some level of significance back to division play and most importantly everybody is already familiar with where each team belongs. Even as a hardcore fan, I couldn't tell you all 5 teams in any grouping this year

2) Get rid of the radical court colors and stick with more neutral tones. I can't believe we went another year with red, blue, green and purple courts. It just looks horrendous and makes watching the game a chore. Stick with a neutral color because we all know its an NBA Cup game because there is giant friggen logo at center court.

3) Lastly, this is straight from WOB, with the caveat that is only used for tie-breaker purposes and we don't actually enter 83 games played for the winning team:

Read on Twitter

[djsunyc]

appreciate the effort op.

but i think it would be easier if they simplify it. keep it to 3 consecutive weeks in december which will count as tourney games. make group play only in your division and then do a tournament. 3 division winners and 1 wildcard in each conference for the tourney.

[YogurtProducer]

it really does feel like the NBA Cup could be executed better. For starters it needs to be done almost like a "March Madness" style of tournament where a whole month of the regular season becomes "Cup Season" and all games are only NBA Cup games.

Also it needs to have a true massive bracket similar to March Madness

actually the NBA just needs to copy March Madness, it's pathetic how the biggest college basketball tournament of the year manages to outdo the NBA for such a small period of time and big part of it is the history behind it as well as the extravagant idea of a Bo1 single knockout tournament.

Second of all, the lack of REGIONAL RIVALRY in the NBA might be the saddest thing in all of sports. Please MAKE THE DIVISIONS MATTER with the Cup. For god's sakes, the greatest thing about the NFL is that you have divisional rivalries every single year. The NBA is literally "we're the little guy and we hate the big bully dynasty competent org" every SINGLE team rivals either the Celtics or the Lakers, it's truly pathetic.

I kind of like the idea of the first month of the NBA regular season becomes purely the "Cup" in a Bo1 style knockout tournament, and the teams that get knocked out are scheduled to play regular season games. Plus this will really take advantage of the "hot starts" that players usually get every single year. The biggest weakness of the NBA is how inflexible they are at scheduling.

All great points.

My post here definitely makes the regional rivalries a thing. Two additional games in the Cup vs your "division".

I don't love it being the first month for the simple fact everyone is already excited for NBA, you don't need a "gimmick".

And also, the best of 1 is great, however if you do a best of 1 to start the year that is 5 games. it would be over before it started (as it is now)

[YogurtProducer]

The customer is always right. They're not impressed by this concept. Slight adjustments aren't likely to make significant impact.

NBA fans are not impressed by anything.

Fans bitch about normal games, NBA cup games, playoff games, etc. Your blanket statement "they are not impressed" is based of what? Your anecdotal evidence?

[YogurtProducer]

appreciate the effort op.

but i think it would be easier if they simplify it. keep it to 3 consecutive weeks in december which will count as tourney games. make group play only in your division and then do a tournament. 3 division winners and 1 wildcard in each conference for the tourney.

Agreed entirely.

I feel like Dec is still too early in the year. It feels like the NBA "lull" is generally in January-ish, which is when I personally would put the cup.

[SOUL]

The customer is always right. They're not impressed by this concept. Slight adjustments aren't likely to make significant impact.

NBA fans are not impressed by anything.

Fans bitch about normal games, NBA cup games, playoff games, etc. Your blanket statement "they are not impressed" is based of what? Your anecdotal evidence?

Yep, fans bitch about all of these things and then bitch about them trying to fix it - almost as if.. people just want something to complain about. Just read the Gen Board and I'd say 50% of its posters claim to not watch the NBA but are posting here all day.

[ItsDanger]

The customer is always right. They're not impressed by this concept. Slight adjustments aren't likely to make significant impact.

NBA fans are not impressed by anything.

Fans bitch about normal games, NBA cup games, playoff games, etc. Your blanket statement "they are not impressed" is based of what? Your anecdotal evidence?

Yep, fans bitch about all of these things and then bitch about them trying to fix it - almost as if.. people just want something to complain about. Just read the Gen Board and I'd say 50% of its posters claim to not watch the NBA but are posting here all day.

Sometimes new ideas just don't work out. I guess you can keep shoving it down their throats but ignoring the hardcore fanbase constantly is a mistake.

[SOUL]

Sometimes new ideas just don't work out. I guess you can keep shoving it down their throats but ignoring the hardcore fanbase constantly is a mistake.

From what I seen, more "hardcore" fans actually enjoy it because it literally doesn't take away anything and teams/players seem to enjoy it too.

Most of the comments I've seen disparaging it are from casuals who dislike everything.

Of course it can be tweaked and changed - almost everything that has become a mainstay in different sports has had to find a happy medium.

[magee]

If the NBA Cup Title game doesn't count in the standings, then tweak the game rules.

8-minute Quarters, 16 second shot clocks, 7-second backcourt violation, adopt FIBA rim rules, allow hand checking, allow Defensive 3-Seconds in the paint. Fewer timeouts, shot clocks resets to nine seconds if offense retains possession. Teams get one challenge per quarter, league adopts XFL's Replay Assist protocols (current NFL and NBA aren't working as well as XFL). Players get four fouls per game, team fouls total is three per quarter. Each non-shooting foul results in one free throw attempt, not two. One technical equals automatic ejection.

I'll see what else I can come up with.

[xchange55]

There's no way OP proposal is going to work schedule wise. Most arenas have other commitments such as hockey or concerts. One of the key reasons the last rounds of the NBA Cup are at a neutral site in Vegas is they can book that location in advance and it does not matter which teams advance; there will be no scheduling conflict.

Regarding the tournament concept, I don't think there is really any way to drum up fan interest. You just need a few games hot streak and you can win - it's about as meaningless as meaningless gets.

For those who don't follow European soccer (futbol), the NBA Cup idea was a copy of the UEFA Champions League (UCL). UCL is the biggest stage in European soccer. In Europe, each country has its own domestic leagues with historical powerhouses (Liverpool and Manchester United in England, Barcelona and Real Madrid in Spain, Bayern Munich in German, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus in Itay etc). These clubs only play within their own country for the regular season. It is only the in the UCL where they can be matched up - for example it's only here you can see Real Madrid vs Bayen Munich in a competitive match. UCL runs in-season, but the Final is played after all domestic leagues have finished because it is the match of the year.

It would be as if the Boston Celtics don't ever play their bitter rival Los Angeles Lakers in the regular season, and the only chance they can collide is in the NBA Cup. It only happens some years, but not every year; so imagine the hype when it does happen. But that is simply not the case as every NBA team plays every other team at least twice per season. Other problem is UCL is the biggest prize - NBA Cup is not and never will be. In other words NBA Cup is just a massive fail.

[YogurtProducer]

There's no way OP proposal is going to work schedule wise. Most arenas have other commitments such as hockey or concerts. One of the key reasons the last rounds of the NBA Cup are at a neutral site in Vegas is they can book that location in advance and it does not matter which teams advance; there will be no scheduling conflict.

Regarding the tournament concept, I don't think there is really any way to drum up fan interest. You just need a few games hot streak and you can win - it's about as meaningless as meaningless gets.

For those who don't follow European soccer (futbol), the NBA Cup idea was a copy of the UEFA Champions League (UCL). UCL is the biggest stage in European soccer. In Europe, each country has its own domestic leagues with historical powerhouses (Liverpool and Manchester United in England, Barcelona and Real Madrid in Spain, Bayern Munich in German, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus in Itay etc). These clubs only play within their own country for the regular season. It is only the in the UCL where they can be matched up - for example it's only here you can see Real Madrid vs Bayen Munich in a competitive match. UCL runs in-season, but the Final is played after all domestic leagues have finished because it is the match of the year.

It would be as if the Boston Celtics don't ever play their bitter rival Los Angeles Lakers in the regular season, and the only chance they can collide is in the NBA Cup. It only happens some years, but not every year; so imagine the hype when it does happen. But that is simply not the case as every NBA team plays every other team at least twice per season. Other problem is UCL is the biggest prize - NBA Cup is not and never will be. In other words NBA Cup is just a massive fail.

Why would it not work schedule wise? It would very similar to how the current system works. 16 games scheduled at the beginning of the season, and 4 more games after the round robin stage. At most, teams would need to block off 2/3 dates to get all the games in.

"meaningless as meaningless gets" is a random regular season game on a Tuesday in November with nothing else on the line. I find the current "4 game round robin" is just to short. Not enough games and one bad game completely ruins you.

But besides, you need more than a few games hot streak. You gotta win 6 out of 7 games generally to win the Cup as it currently stands.

[YogurtProducer]

If the NBA Cup Title game doesn't count in the standings, then tweak the game rules.

8-minute Quarters, 16 second shot clocks, 7-second backcourt violation, adopt FIBA rim rules, allow hand checking, allow Defensive 3-Seconds in the paint. Fewer timeouts, shot clocks resets to nine seconds if offense retains possession. Teams get one challenge per quarter, league adopts XFL's Replay Assist protocols (current NFL and NBA aren't working as well as XFL). Players get four fouls per game, team fouls total is three per quarter. Each non-shooting foul results in one free throw attempt, not two. One technical equals automatic ejection.

I'll see what else I can come up with.

You joke, but I actually agree it could be interesting to use different rules you want to test.

I wouldn't change anything drastic like you suggested (because good luck having refs change to massive changes like that), but IMO cup games could use the ELAM ending, different timeout rules possibly, etc. and other rules as a "test" in actual meaningful games.