Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window

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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#21 » by imagump1313 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:32 pm

Rustyman wrote:
G R E Y wrote:Ok I just tried this unrealistic trade and it works:

Collins and Branham for Val, Saddiq Bey, Patrick Baldwin Jr., and just to **** with gump, Justin Champagnie :lol:

It's obvious why we do it and the cost is reasonable. Sweeten the deal with some picks.

Not obvious why Washington does it other than to somehow get worse, make room on their roster, get a player on a rookie contract who could shoot to his heart's content, and give Collins Val's 20mpg. Plus picks.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8819335


Trade is possible but the Spurs would have to waive a couple of players. Washington would definitely want a protected 1st and some seconds to sweeten the pot.


I like where this is going but we are offering the wrong players. :D

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8819513
and throw in a 2nd rounder or two if they demand more

This way we dont have to waive anyone. The trade would do that for us
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#22 » by Rustyman » Tue Dec 17, 2024 8:29 pm

imagump1313 wrote:I like where this is going but we are offering the wrong players. :D

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8819513
and throw in a 2nd rounder or two if they demand more

This way we dont have to waive anyone. The trade would do that for us


No, leave out Champagnie and throw in someone else and I am on board.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#23 » by imagump1313 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:09 pm

Rustyman wrote:
imagump1313 wrote:I like where this is going but we are offering the wrong players. :D

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8819513
and throw in a 2nd rounder or two if they demand more

This way we dont have to waive anyone. The trade would do that for us


No, leave out Champagnie and throw in someone else and I am on board.


But....The Champagnie brothers need to play together!!!!! Just not here :lol: :lol:

Ok involve another team and get me someone who will move Champagnie to the bench and I'll be ok.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#24 » by Rustyman » Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:19 pm

imagump1313 wrote:
Rustyman wrote:
imagump1313 wrote:I like where this is going but we are offering the wrong players. :D

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8819513
and throw in a 2nd rounder or two if they demand more

This way we dont have to waive anyone. The trade would do that for us


No, leave out Champagnie and throw in someone else and I am on board.


But....The Champagnie brothers need to play together!!!!! Just not here :lol: :lol:

Ok involve another team and get me someone who will move Champagnie to the bench and I'll be ok.


I agree, Champagnie needs to be moved to the bench but who replaces him? I also think Vassell needs to be in the starting line-up in place of Castle which somewhat mitigates the 3 point shooting issue but with our current team, we looking at a Paul, Vassell, Barnes, Sochan and Wemby starting 5. My preference would be to get a scoring SF and move Barnes to the bench which would hopefully also address our bench scoring woes.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#25 » by imagump1313 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:21 pm

Rustyman wrote:
imagump1313 wrote:
Rustyman wrote:
No, leave out Champagnie and throw in someone else and I am on board.


But....The Champagnie brothers need to play together!!!!! Just not here :lol: :lol:

Ok involve another team and get me someone who will move Champagnie to the bench and I'll be ok.


I agree, Champagnie needs to be moved to the bench but who replaces him? I also think Vassell needs to be in the starting line-up in place of Castle which somewhat mitigates the 3 point shooting issue but with our current team, we looking at a Paul, Vassell, Barnes, Sochan and Wemby starting 5. My preference would be to get a scoring SF and move Barnes to the bench which would hopefully also address our bench scoring woes.


Grey and I have agreed on this all year. I dont understand why our starters arent Paul, Vassell, Barnes, Sochan and Wemby. It makes no sense. Champaigne is fine as a bench player. Give me your fade away contested brick threes and unforced turnovers and no defense off the bench for 20 minutes and we can make up for that. Not playing 30+ minutes as a starter
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#26 » by CIN-C-STAR » Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:36 am

Unpopular/unfun opinion: The Spurs shouldn't and probably won't make an in-season trade.
All the players available now are available for a reason, whether it be age, contract, injury history, performance or some combination on the four.
They should keep their assets to go big-game hunting which is way more likely in an offseason. The kind of move they need to make should either make them a legit contender -- and they are too far away from that right now for that to be realistic imo -- or have real long-term upside.
I just don't think giving up assets for a Valanciunus or even a Jimmy Butler makes sense considering you are looking at giving up a FRP and the matching salary which likely includes young guys AND, perhaps most importantly, the likelihood of moving 7-10 spots back in a good draft just for what is likely a first-round exit.
If we could get someone like that it would definitely make the team more fun to watch so I get the appeal, and if it only cost draft capital maybe I'd agree, but I'd rather just sign a backup center in the offseason or something and keep the war chest intact (plus add to it with a good draft pick).
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#27 » by G R E Y » Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:44 am

CIN-C-STAR wrote:Unpopular/unfun opinion: The Spurs shouldn't and probably won't make an in-season trade.
All the players available now are available for a reason, whether it be age, contract, injury history, performance or some combination on the four.
They should keep their assets to go big-game hunting which is way more likely in an offseason. The kind of move they need to make should either make them a legit contender -- and they are too far away from that right now for that to be realistic imo -- or have real long-term upside.
I just don't think giving up assets for a Valanciunus or even a Jimmy Butler makes sense considering you are looking at giving up a FRP and the matching salary which likely includes young guys AND, perhaps most importantly, the likelihood of moving 7-10 spots back in a good draft just for what is likely a first-round exit.
If we could get someone like that it would definitely make the team more fun to watch so I get the appeal, and if it only cost draft capital maybe I'd agree, but I'd rather just sign a backup center in the offseason or something and keep the war chest intact (plus add to it with a good draft pick).

I wonder whether Wemby's clearly improving trajectory has us looking around to expedite filling holes. Sort of like how Wemby described it once - you still run up the stairs, don't skip any steps, but you choose how quickly to go up them, words to that effect. It's an interesting idea. Like neither Barnes nor CP3 were costly, and neither is a long term solution at his respective position, but both have been huge assets in lifting and solidifying our floor.

If we get a backup C like Val or such a prototype that is a clear upgrade and isn't too costly (what, after all, are assets for if not in part to consolidate for improvements) why not pounce if guys are talking about playoffs as a goal?

As it turns out, if a reported first round pick and a good player seems to be the Val asking price then it's too steep. If there's wiggle room, I'd go for it.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#28 » by Rustyman » Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:29 am

An issue I have also alluded to earlier is the current value of assets.

The Spurs have 2 guaranteed first rounders (SAS+ATL) in the 2025 draft and a potential 2 first rounders (CHI protected 1-10 and CHA protected 1-14). Now, it is likely that the Charlotte pick does not convey and the Chicago is a maybe, however, that is 4 potential first rounders and there is no way the Spurs have the time or attention required for 4 rookies. Also remember the Spurs have 2 second round picks in 2025.

There is no way the Spurs are drafting 6 players in 2025 so they have 2 options, consolidate their picks for a higher pick, trade the picks for future years or trade the picks for players.

The problem is that the Spurs, Thunder and Jazz are all sellers in the 2025 draft as they have too many picks so the cost for those picks, especially non-lottery picks is reduced either for trade-up's or future picks. That is why I am an advocate of trading some of the excess picks, especially 2025 first rounders and any of the 18 second round picks the Spurs have for players now.

This does not mean that I want the Spurs to trade away future capital, I am simply saying make use of the existing assets to improve the roster in incremental steps or get bad money off the books. I would also like the Spurs to get some playoff experience this year, even if it is only in the play-in. It shows the players the way forward.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#29 » by Rustyman » Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:38 am

G R E Y wrote:As it turns out, if a reported first round pick and a good player seems to be the Val asking price then it's too steep. If there's wiggle room, I'd go for it.


I would say a non-lottery pick (say 20+) and any of Collins/Branham/Mamu/Tre Jones/etc. + a couple of seconds. Anything more than that is too expensive.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#30 » by Kineto » Thu Dec 19, 2024 8:14 am

I really like Goga Bitatze as a the backup center option. More than Valenciunas who is older and really not that good on the defensive end.

Salary wise, a swap with Tre Jones works perfectly, but I'm not sure Tre is what Orlando is looking for right now.

But maybe a 3 team deal with Utah can work :

SAS in : Goga Bitaze
SAS out : Tre Jones + assets (CHA 1st ?)

ORL in : Collin Sexton
ORL out : Goga Bitaze, Gary Harris, (one or two 2nd round pick ?)

UTA in : Tre Jones, Gary Harris + assets (CHA 1st, one or two 2nd round pick ?)
UTA out : Collin Sexton

The draft compensation can be discussed, maybe it's too much, maybe it's not enough for Utah and they want a guaranteed 1st round pick (CHA 1st is very likely to be only two 2nd rounder), but that's the core of the deal.

Sexton can be replaced by Clarkson if Orlando prefers him, it works the same, salaries are pretty similar.


SAS get a solid rotation big man with a very good contract for the next 3 seasons.

ORL get a microwave scorer who shoots almost 40% from 3 and who can take over the scoring duties while Franz and Paolo are out.

UTAH will continue to tank for Flagg, get some assets and two expiring contracts (Harris' second year is a team option), and can eventually keep Jones if they like him.




Something quite similar can be done replacing Utah and sexton by other team like :
- Portland and A. Simons
- Atlanta and B. Bogdanovic
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#31 » by Rustyman » Thu Dec 19, 2024 9:16 am

[quote="Kineto"]
SAS in : Goga Bitaze
SAS out : Tre Jones + assets (CHA 1st ?)
/quote]

The problem I have is the Spurs sending out Tre Jones + picks for a backup big. That does not seem an even trade to me. I am not averse to trading Jones but I always want to do that in the context of a better scorer.

Yes, backup big is a need but the 10-15 minutes the backup big gets is not worth Tre Jones who is insurance for Chris Paul who is one injury away from retirement.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#32 » by Kineto » Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:45 am

For me, it's not really that important to optimize this year roster.

If there's a trade that doesn't cost much and can adress a long-term need for the Spurs, I'm all for it.

Especially at the backup center position, which is a really important position to fill because it's that player that will have to keep the defence afloat when Wemby is on the bench.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#33 » by Butter » Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:14 am

What are Spurs fans thoughts on pairing Ant Simons with Castle in the future?

Paul will start until he's done, but Simons could be a really nice pairing.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#34 » by CIN-C-STAR » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:08 am

Butter wrote:What are Spurs fans thoughts on pairing Ant Simons with Castle in the future?

Paul will start until he's done, but Simons could be a really nice pairing.


Love it, but feel like the Simons/Vassell pairing is kind of redundant.
Continue to be disappointed w Vassel’s defense tbh (though continue to like the rest of his game!), so might concern would be more pairing them in the starting lineup.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#35 » by Butter » Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:31 am

CIN-C-STAR wrote:
Butter wrote:What are Spurs fans thoughts on pairing Ant Simons with Castle in the future?

Paul will start until he's done, but Simons could be a really nice pairing.


Love it, but feel like the Simons/Vassell pairing is kind of redundant.
Continue to be disappointed w Vassel’s defense tbh (though continue to like the rest of his game!), so might concern would be more pairing them in the starting lineup.



Taking a shot in the dark, filler players could be changed:

Portland Trades
Anfernee Simons (2 / $25.8M)
Jabari Walker (1 / $2M)

San Antonio Trades
Harrison Barnes (2 / $18M
Tre Jones (1 / $9M)
2028 1st (Boston)
With Sohan coming back, is Barnes expendable? Keldon Johnson could be substituted, but assuming Barnes has less value.to the Spurs. Simons provides invaluable spacing to open the floor for Wemby.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#36 » by CIN-C-STAR » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:32 pm

Butter wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:
Butter wrote:What are Spurs fans thoughts on pairing Ant Simons with Castle in the future?

Paul will start until he's done, but Simons could be a really nice pairing.


Love it, but feel like the Simons/Vassell pairing is kind of redundant.
Continue to be disappointed w Vassel’s defense tbh (though continue to like the rest of his game!), so might concern would be more pairing them in the starting lineup.



Taking a shot in the dark, filler players could be changed:

Portland Trades
Anfernee Simons (2 / $25.8M)
Jabari Walker (1 / $2M)

San Antonio Trades
Harrison Barnes (2 / $18M
Tre Jones (1 / $9M)
2028 1st (Boston)
With Sohan coming back, is Barnes expendable? Keldon Johnson could be substituted, but assuming Barnes has less value.to the Spurs. Simons provides invaluable spacing to open the floor for Wemby.


I like this and have long been a fan of Simons.
To be clear, when I say redundant I’m not referring to the shooting — you can’t put too much shooting around Wemby! — I just question the defensive pairing of Simons/Vassell on the wing, and if either would be willing to move to the bench.
But a strong wing defender is a need either way, and if the cost were only a late FRP and Barnes I’d be all aboard.
Like I said, to me any trade needs to make us a contender or have long-term upside and I like Simons’ upside as he enters his prime.
And who knows, Vassell might be a player of interest in any future big trades so maybe the redundancy won’t matter anyway (I’d like to keep him but you have to give up something to get something usually).
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#37 » by CIN-C-STAR » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:39 pm

Of the centers reportedly available, I wouldn’t mind Daniel Theis or Trey Lyles assuming the cost is very low like a 2nd rd pick or maybe two if they aren’t great quality.
I’d like to continue to try to explore five out motion w Wemby and I think that was the hope w Collins but his shot just isn’t good enough for other teams to care. He’s an ok player with some skill but his post ups just aren’t effective enough to bend defenses and he becomes a bit of a black hole.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#38 » by G R E Y » Fri Dec 20, 2024 7:23 pm

Trey Loles and his parting from SA by posting a photo of himself giving the finger on IG can go **** themselves in perpetuity.

Theis I like; Val, too, as I mentioned before.

As to Simons, I don't get the appeal. I think Devin is a year younger, better overall player, and as to Simon's spacing, if that's tied to 3s, then he'd be 9th on our roster this season, right behind Collins. But Simons is shooting a career low 33.2% from 3 this season so it may be an anomaly.

We also drafted Castle who is on a rookie contract, a wonderful defender, good driver and is already third best on the team as to getting to the FT line, with efficiency needing improvement.

We have far more pressing team needs like back up C and long term starting PG and SF and so giving up assets for a player at whose position we actually are set for present and future when we could use those assets for more pressing areas of need makes no sense.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#39 » by Rustyman » Fri Dec 20, 2024 7:39 pm

What is the highest price people would pay for a backup center?

For me it is Collins and a couple of seconds, what do others think.

I wouldn't move Tre, Keldon, or anything like that as I think they have more value, both to the team and in trades.
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Re: Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window 

Post#40 » by G R E Y » Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:05 pm

Rustyman wrote:What is the highest price people would pay for a backup center?

For me it is Collins and a couple of seconds, what do others think.

I wouldn't move Tre, Keldon, or anything like that as I think they have more value, both to the team and in trades.

The other part of it is a bidding war where market dictates price. There's a RealGM article about how Cs will be in demand, so I agree with your range of what we ought to give up, and I think we should both have some flexibility in beating another team for our top target but also have a limit beyond which we won't go. Market only dictates so much and we ultimately control our plethora of assets. Some teams get into the bidding just to drive up the price and force another team to overpay. We don't have to.
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