LA Bird wrote:OhayoKD wrote:The staggering is hurting the player because you're not looking at "performance" you're looking at micro snippets of "team performance". Duncan spends more time with worse players.
1. Per 48 adjustment already accounts for the minute difference.
2. Robinson's and Duncan's backups were named and you failed to show the latter being better.
3. Opponent strength was accounted for with proportion of Malone time.
There is nothing to discuss if you ignore everything I say.
That extremely unusual minute disparity mantained for every prime Duncan year with Drob, and then every prime season with Manu both of whom have had various variants of this "performance" related argument pushed against one of the commonest common denominators to dominate the game. And both of these co-stars look much better using these tiny "performances" than full games of "performance" even when they're the 5th or 6th mpg player.
An argument which could be convincing if you had any supporting evidence. But, you didn't provide any.
Curious interpretation. You said "there was no counter" Enigma offered your counter, but yes, I was trying to sic the authority of Aenigma on you. Last I checked, I've never advocated for treating posters differently because they're "respected".
My post talked about playoffs.
My numbers are about playoffs.
Your "counter" is regular season.
Spot the difference.
That is what he is according to the "performance" you're looking at.
Worthless strawman until you point out comparable claims I've made.
So if his on/off was great while the Jazz blew him out by 10 points you wouldn't have penalized him?
If the Spurs won in Robinson's minutes and only lost because they got blown out when he sat, why not? This is no different than not penalizing a player beyond missed time for barely missing the playoffs if they go something like 0-15 without him.
No, you're judging him on a proxy for "actual performance" while ignoring that proxy is contradicted by other proxies for "actual performance" which happen to be using the full 48 minutes that championships and playoff series are won from.
What is "proxy" about a player's on court team performance? If a player fouls out with his team down 20 in G7 and they go on a run to win without him, should he be judged moreso on his on-court +/- or the final W which came with him sitting on the bench? The answer is obvious. And before you go on about teammate and opponent lineup quality, refer back to the beginning of this post.
In 25 years, not you, nor anyone has bothered to show an aspect of performance and the frequency of said aspect you think Drob performed so much and so well
Assuming you are referring to specific tracking data, no. But in 25 years, no one has bothered to show an aspect of performance and the frequency of said aspect where Duncan was better than Robinson either. Or for Shaq over Mourning. Or for practically any player combination in any season to any significant degree. If one day such tracking data becomes universally available and it points to Duncan being better, then I am open to supporting Duncan instead. But until then, pointing out no such data exists for Robinson over Duncan is a moot point.
But I look forward to you looking at "actual performances" to judge Manu's playoff performance as equivalent to Duncan's in 2003, and Magic's performance in the 1991 finals as 8 times better than Micheal Jordan's.
The old pick any player with good +/- to debunk it argument. Basic mud slinging tactic from a decade ago.
And I'm pretty sure Magic's on-court net wasn't 8 times better than Jordan's but you love strawmans I guess.
I'm sorry, did the Spurs going +11 and 15-2 in 1999 not happen on the court or something?
Did Robinson going +20 not happen on the court or something? You hype the +11 figure like it had nothing to do with him.
Maybe a little harder to spot than the Suns missing their actual best player and fellow impact darling Jason Kidd for basically the whole series? Jason Kidd and Penny played all the games vs the Lakers by the way, where they performed at a +0.9 SRS and like a flat out negative srs team relative to everyone else who played the Lakers. How exactly is the Jason-Kidd less version of that team not fodder?
The same Kidd who you just trashed is now super valuable again when it suits your argument. Convenient
What spreadsheet are you talking about. What controls. Is this some Ben Taylor thing?
Yes. And upon checking your post history, you've even cited the spreadsheet before yourself when voting for Hakeem. Acting like you never heard of it when the numbers aren't favorable to your preferred player
There's nothing weird about disengaging with people arguing a take. Throwing baseless accusations at someone because ontop of actually looking at performance they have the talent to make **** fun? Now that's weird.
This the friend who still can't post on this forum themselves after
three months because of ... computer issues and a dead phone? That's the reason you are still using? Maybe we need to add a baller vow: in exchange for being a grain master, OhayoKD's best friend will have no access to the internet the rest of their life and can only vote through proxy.
