Kessler to LA

[jazzfan1971]

Kessler
For
JhS
2029 first top4 protected. If fails to convey becomes an Unprotected swap option in 2030 and 2030 and 2031 2nds.

[SkyHook]

Kessler
For
JhS
2029 first top4 protected. If fails to convey becomes an Unprotected swap option in 2030 and 2030 and 2031 2nds.

I don't see Ainge settling for this.

[mg]

Kessler
For
JhS
2029 first top4 protected. If fails to convey becomes an Unprotected swap option in 2030 and 2030 and 2031 2nds.

I don't see Ainge settling for this.

Agreed.
In addition Ainge would probably want the protection off the '27 FRP Laker pick they already own. He would also want a FRP in 31 instead of the 2nds. You would need to blow Utah out of the water on a Kessler deal because it would be very easy for them to just keep him. If you watched their game last night Duren looked like a G leaguer going up against Kessler.

Considering all that I would say Kessler really isn't on the market.

[Texas Chuck]

This seems like about the right return for Kessler. Not sure where the idea is coming from that any team will actually give up multiple unprotected firsts for him when players of his ilk never return anything like that.

Now I can see Utah refusing to deal him for the appropriate value, but it doesn't mean he has more. I do not believe he does.

[mg]

This seems like about the right return for Kessler. Not sure where the idea is coming from that any team will actually give up multiple unprotected firsts for him when players of his ilk never return anything like that.

Now I can see Utah refusing to deal him for the appropriate value, but it doesn't mean he has more. I do not believe he does.

I don't completely disagree but Utah has already come out and said it would take 2 FRP's.

[Texas Chuck]

This seems like about the right return for Kessler. Not sure where the idea is coming from that any team will actually give up multiple unprotected firsts for him when players of his ilk never return anything like that.

Now I can see Utah refusing to deal him for the appropriate value, but it doesn't mean he has more. I do not believe he does.

I don't completely disagree but Utah has already come out and said it would take 2 FRP's.

Oh yes public negotiating. Definitely always the correct price.

Also big difference in firsts. 2 unprotected firsts from LA post Lebron? Very valuable because of the high upside variance. The worst two picks Houston or OKC have? With all kinds of protections? Sure. He could return that.

But we shouldn't let media leaks set prices, right? I mean the little Mavs a couple years ago were asking for a first round pick for Dwight Powell (and claiming they had an offer). And this was Dwight Powell making more than the MLE. Nobody really believed Dwight Powell even had neutral value much less 1st round pick.

It's talk.

[SkyHook]

Kessler
For
JhS
2029 first top4 protected. If fails to convey becomes an Unprotected swap option in 2030 and 2030 and 2031 2nds.

I don't see Ainge settling for this.

Agreed.
In addition Ainge would probably want the protection off the '27 FRP Laker pick they already own. He would also want a FRP in 31 instead of the 2nds. You would need to blow Utah out of the water on a Kessler deal because it would be very easy for them to just keep him. If you watched their game last night Duren looked like a G leaguer going up against Kessler.

Considering all that I would say Kessler really isn't on the market.

Agreed. The guesstimate from a previous thread was that removing the protections on the Lakers 2027 FRP had value in the range of a late first. That, plus a protected FRP that can become unprotected sounds about right.

Now the Lakers (and other teams) can certainly balk at this (I have no problem with that, "appropriate" value is highly subjective after all), but that doesn't mean that Ainge should or will settle for less. Barring an overwhelming offer — which I have no reason to expect is forthcoming — I'd absolutely prefer to hang on to Walker.

[OutsidetheNBA]

I think Kessler is like a lot of young players in that his own rebuilding team will value him at his potential (a top 12 Center who can anchor a defense) while a contending trade partner would value him at his current value (a very solid playoff rotation piece). It's hard to bridge that gap. (Same for players like Camara on the Blazers, or Sharpe on the Nets, etc.).

If I'm the Jazz, I just keep Kessler rather than trade him for a 1st round pick in 5 years. The point of a rebuild is to get good players and Kessler is a good player.

If I'm the Lakers I'm not tying up my '29 and '30 picks (and thus eliminating the ability to combine two draft picks to take a big swing) in exchange for a back-up Center on an aging team that isn't going to contend without another superstar.

[Scoot McGroot]

This seems like about the right return for Kessler. Not sure where the idea is coming from that any team will actually give up multiple unprotected firsts for him when players of his ilk never return anything like that.

Now I can see Utah refusing to deal him for the appropriate value, but it doesn't mean he has more. I do not believe he does.

I don't completely disagree but Utah has already come out and said it would take 2 FRP's.

Oh yes public negotiating. Definitely always the correct price.

Also big difference in firsts. 2 unprotected firsts from LA post Lebron? Very valuable because of the high upside variance. The worst two picks Houston or OKC have? With all kinds of protections? Sure. He could return that.

But we shouldn't let media leaks set prices, right? I mean the little Mavs a couple years ago were asking for a first round pick for Dwight Powell (and claiming they had an offer). And this was Dwight Powell making more than the MLE. Nobody really believed Dwight Powell even had neutral value much less 1st round pick.

It's talk.

Is Danny Ainge the GM that most uses the press to try and work his player values? He was wild with it in Boston, and it seems he’s still quite….open with the media?

[SkyHook]

I don't completely disagree but Utah has already come out and said it would take 2 FRP's.

Oh yes public negotiating. Definitely always the correct price.

Also big difference in firsts. 2 unprotected firsts from LA post Lebron? Very valuable because of the high upside variance. The worst two picks Houston or OKC have? With all kinds of protections? Sure. He could return that.

But we shouldn't let media leaks set prices, right? I mean the little Mavs a couple years ago were asking for a first round pick for Dwight Powell (and claiming they had an offer). And this was Dwight Powell making more than the MLE. Nobody really believed Dwight Powell even had neutral value much less 1st round pick.

It's talk.

Is Danny Ainge the GM that most uses the press to try and work his player values? He was wild with it in Boston, and it seems he’s still quite….open with the media?

Perhaps I've missed them, but I haven't seen reports that suggest that the leaks are coming from Utah in this case. Michael Scotto of HoopsHype said, "Teams gauging Kessler’s availability in Utah have come away with the sense that it’ll take at least two first-round picks to pry him from the Jazz, a high asking price in their eyes." To me, that sounds like the leaks are coming from elsewhere; that other teams are pursuing a Kessler trade and griping that they don't like what they're being asked for in return.

[Texas Chuck]

my team never leaks.....

Spoiler:

every team leaks. Even yours.

The question is who benefits from the leak. In this case only Utah. So the leak is most likely from them. They want a message out of lots of teams calling and the price is high. That way when a team is actually interested the hope is they start high. I don't think this actually works, but teams definitely do it.

Just like agents leak things favorable to their client.

It's the job.

[SkyHook]

my team never leaks.....

Spoiler:

every team leaks. Even yours.

Of course every team leaks. Is a Utah leak what is being reported here?

[SkyHook]

my team never leaks.....

Spoiler:

every team leaks. Even yours.

The question is who benefits from the leak. [*] In this case only Utah. So the leak is most likely from them. They want a message out of lots of teams calling and the price is high. That way when a team is actually interested the hope is they start high. I don't think this actually works, but teams definitely do it.

Just like agents leak things favorable to their client.

It's the job.

Only Utah? Strong disagree. Another team who wants their fanbase to believe that they've pursued every option to improve, but the asking price was unfair — there's benefit there as well.

[Texas Chuck]

except those teams aren't named so......

And no team can come out publicly and say we tried to trade for Kessler but Utah wanted too much but dear fans we are trying so hard. That would be tampering.

They could talk in generalities only. But if it matters that much, despite it most likely being Utah sourced, it doesn't really matter. Those leaks don't set his value.

And again 2 firsts has such a wide range as to be meaningless. What was being asked for itt and others is 2 unprotected firsts and I will eat my shirt and video it and post it here if he returns that.

[SkyHook]

except those teams aren't named so......

And no team can come out publicly and say we tried to trade for Kessler but Utah wanted too much but dear fans we are trying so hard. That would be tampering.

They could talk in generalities only. But if it matters that much, despite it most likely being Utah sourced, it doesn't really matter. Those leaks don't set his value.

And again 2 firsts has such a wide range as to be meaningless. What was being asked for itt and others is 2 unprotected firsts and I will eat my shirt and video it and post it here if he returns that.

Agreed that two firsts has a wide range and I don't think that you're in any danger of eating your shirt. (I'd place low odds on Kessler being moved at all; I could be wrong.) But no one is talking about two unprotected firsts being the ask here. Unprotecting the remaining top-4 from the 2027 Lakers FRP plus a protected pick in 2029 that potentially converts to being unprotected later does not remotely equal the two completely unprotected picks that the Lakers can trade in 2029 and 2031.

And the Jazz haven't come out publicly either, right?

[Scoot McGroot]

Oh yes public negotiating. Definitely always the correct price.

Also big difference in firsts. 2 unprotected firsts from LA post Lebron? Very valuable because of the high upside variance. The worst two picks Houston or OKC have? With all kinds of protections? Sure. He could return that.

But we shouldn't let media leaks set prices, right? I mean the little Mavs a couple years ago were asking for a first round pick for Dwight Powell (and claiming they had an offer). And this was Dwight Powell making more than the MLE. Nobody really believed Dwight Powell even had neutral value much less 1st round pick.

It's talk.

Is Danny Ainge the GM that most uses the press to try and work his player values? He was wild with it in Boston, and it seems he’s still quite….open with the media?

Perhaps I've missed them, but I haven't seen reports that suggest that the leaks are coming from Utah in this case. Michael Scotto of HoopsHype said, "Teams gauging Kessler’s availability in Utah have come away with the sense that it’ll take at least two first-round picks to pry him from the Jazz, a high asking price in their eyes." To me, that sounds like the leaks are coming from elsewhere; that other teams are pursuing a Kessler trade and griping that they don't like what they're being asked for in return.

It is amazing to me that Ainge's teams are always the one reported one the most with the most specific language of what they want....

[Scoot McGroot]

except those teams aren't named so......

And no team can come out publicly and say we tried to trade for Kessler but Utah wanted too much but dear fans we are trying so hard. That would be tampering.

They could talk in generalities only. But if it matters that much, despite it most likely being Utah sourced, it doesn't really matter. Those leaks don't set his value.

And again 2 firsts has such a wide range as to be meaningless. What was being asked for itt and others is 2 unprotected firsts and I will eat my shirt and video it and post it here if he returns that.

And the Jazz haven't come out publicly either, right?

They can't. Ainge teams just seem to get talked about a ton, you know, since Ainge can't talk directly....

[SkyHook]

except those teams aren't named so......

And no team can come out publicly and say we tried to trade for Kessler but Utah wanted too much but dear fans we are trying so hard. That would be tampering.

They could talk in generalities only. But if it matters that much, despite it most likely being Utah sourced, it doesn't really matter. Those leaks don't set his value.

And again 2 firsts has such a wide range as to be meaningless. What was being asked for itt and others is 2 unprotected firsts and I will eat my shirt and video it and post it here if he returns that.

And the Jazz haven't come out publicly either, right?

They can't. Ainge teams just seem to get talked about a ton, you know, since Ainge can't talk directly....

In general, I don't think that it matters which team leaks. Everybody does it. But in this specific case it was Ian Begley of SNY, reporting on the Knicks pursuit of Kessler, who originally broke the story. Do people truly believe that a NY reporter is more tapped into the Jazz camp than the Knicks? That this instance is just Ainge manipulating the New York media to further the Jazz trade valuation agenda?

https://sny.tv/articles/jazz-walker-kessler-trade-knicks-july-2024

[BowlRips]

And the Jazz haven't come out publicly either, right?

They can't. Ainge teams just seem to get talked about a ton, you know, since Ainge can't talk directly....

In general, I don't think that it matters which team leaks. Everybody does it. But in this specific case it was Ian Begley of SNY, reporting on the Knicks pursuit of Kessler, who originally broke the story. Do people truly believe that a NY reporter is more tapped into the Jazz camp than the Knicks? That this instance is just Ainge manipulating the New York media to further the Jazz trade valuation agenda?

https://sny.tv/articles/jazz-walker-kessler-trade-knicks-july-2024

No its a knicks beat writer hearing that Ainge rejected the Knicks offer of the Detroit and Washington protected first round picks. Got to read between the lines.

[babyjax13]

Oh yes public negotiating. Definitely always the correct price.

Also big difference in firsts. 2 unprotected firsts from LA post Lebron? Very valuable because of the high upside variance. The worst two picks Houston or OKC have? With all kinds of protections? Sure. He could return that.

But we shouldn't let media leaks set prices, right? I mean the little Mavs a couple years ago were asking for a first round pick for Dwight Powell (and claiming they had an offer). And this was Dwight Powell making more than the MLE. Nobody really believed Dwight Powell even had neutral value much less 1st round pick.

It's talk.

Is Danny Ainge the GM that most uses the press to try and work his player values? He was wild with it in Boston, and it seems he’s still quite….open with the media?

Perhaps I've missed them, but I haven't seen reports that suggest that the leaks are coming from Utah in this case. Michael Scotto of HoopsHype said, "Teams gauging Kessler’s availability in Utah have come away with the sense that it’ll take at least two first-round picks to pry him from the Jazz, a high asking price in their eyes." To me, that sounds like the leaks are coming from elsewhere; that other teams are pursuing a Kessler trade and griping that they don't like what they're being asked for in return.

We didn't have this many leaks, or this many specific leaks until we hired Ainge. I think they are from him, and God am I so, so tired of him.