Fake Trade Thread #6

[JayTWill]

If Nick Richards somehow became available for trade this year could he help the Knicks' defense? How would you guys rate his defense?

He is 32% via Def EPM this year, which is his career average, so that would indicate he is below average.
Charlotte has had a poor defense for years though so that probably doesn't help him in metrics like that.
He is a good shot blocker that can protect the rim and deters guys from layup lines or highlight dunks. 96th % in Block%
Teams shoot 45% against him this year, 54% at the rim which seems pretty solid.
He probably would look a lot better surrounded by OG, Bridges, Hart, McBride then our supporting defenders.
He does struggle to defend stretch bigs though and is not a very switchable big, so he is best in drop coverage.
Idk if that is a scheme fit for NY.

He is above average on offense though as a lob threat, putbacks, screener.
Good rebounder overall. 92% and 96% percentile on Off and Def rebounding.
Altogether he is much like any bench player in the NBA, he has his warts but is still a contributor.
EPM ranks him around the 35th-40th best center in the league.
So that would indicate he is one of the better overall backups.

He is tied for 9th in the league in contested 2s per game at 7 shots per game.
That is more than Hartenstein had last year, but again part of that might just be better team defense where the front of the rim is harder to get to.

2nd in the NBA in screen assist pts.

So again, he has his warts but at 5 million in salary for next year there really is no reason to give him away for a few 2nd round picks.

Knicks' fans have concerns about KAT's defense at the 5 and some would like better rim protection behind him and also that could play beside him in the Gobert role. The perimeter defense has not been as impressive as expected for whatever reason. OG has been one of the best defenders in the league for years but Mikal's numbers dropped off over the last couple years. Mikal seems to be improving on that end for us but he got off to a slow start. Hart is a great energy guy but his overall defense can be a bit hit and miss. McBride is solid but limited by his size in some ways.

I'm not sure how Richards would fit on the Knicks honestly. Offensively he seems similar to Mitch with better free throw shooting but Mitch's limited offense and efficiency decreased with the arrival of Brunson. Brunson seems to have improved as a playmaker this year but some of that may be because of the spacing KAT provides at the 5. He has rarely thrown a lob pass for Mitch over the previous 2 seasons and he doesn't really pass to him as a rim runner. If Richards is dependent on the ball handlers creating easy looks for him at the rim his offense may suffer on the Knicks. The screening and crashing the glass is how Mitch has made his impact in the offense which I assume Richards could do.

Defensively KAT and the team as a whole can look lost playing drop coverage. Teams are shooting an insane 70.3% against KAT at the rim this season but I don't know what to make of that number. Teams are also shooting 73.5% against Bam this year while the Knicks own Jericho Sims has a league low 38% against him at the rim and he was just removed from the rotation. The Knicks also have another center prospect in Hukporti that has an crazy block rate but he essentially jumps at everything so I can see how it leads to him being out of position at times and how he could easily be a foul magnet. Richards sounds like a solid shot blocker but I don't know enough about him to know if he is a disciplined defender in that regard.

Thank you for your response.

[JMAC3]

Knicks' fans have concerns about KAT's defense at the 5 and some would like better rim protection behind him and also that could play beside him in the Gobert role. The perimeter defense has not been as impressive as expected for whatever reason. OG has been one of the best defenders in the league for years but Mikal's numbers dropped off over the last couple years. Mikal seems to be improving on that end for us but he got off to a slow start. Hart is a great energy guy but his overall defense can be a bit hit and miss. McBride is solid but limited by his size in some ways.

I'm not sure how Richards would fit on the Knicks honestly. Offensively he seems similar to Mitch with better free throw shooting but Mitch's limited offense and efficiency decreased with the arrival of Brunson. Brunson seems to have improved as a playmaker this year but some of that may be because of the spacing KAT provides at the 5. He has rarely thrown a lob pass for Mitch over the previous 2 seasons and he doesn't really pass to him as a rim runner. If Richards is dependent on the ball handlers creating easy looks for him at the rim his offense may suffer on the Knicks. The screening and crashing the glass is how Mitch has made his impact in the offense which I assume Richards could do.

Defensively KAT and the team as a whole can look lost playing drop coverage. Teams are shooting an insane 70.3% against KAT at the rim this season but I don't know what to make of that number. Teams are also shooting 73.5% against Bam this year while the Knicks own Jericho Sims has a league low 38% against him at the rim and he was just removed from the rotation. The Knicks also have another center prospect in Hukporti that has an crazy block rate but he essentially jumps at everything so I can see how it leads to him being out of position at times and how he could easily be a foul magnet. Richards sounds like a solid shot blocker but I don't know enough about him to know if he is a disciplined defender in that regard.

Thank you for your response.

Yeah most players have warts in the NBA. You can't expect KAT to be a top 5 offensive center and also anchor a defense. Just like Richards isn't going to be great at protecting the rim, creating offense and switching on defense. Those are the elite players of the league that very limited holes in their games, the other 400 players you have to accept the flaws.

Looking at EPM, Hukporti and Sims seem pretty much unplayable on offense. Which is probably why Sims is out of the rotation, Nick is a clear upgrade over both of those guys. No doubt Richards would help the Knicks, but again Charlotte shouldn't be in a rush to give away a productive player on a great contract.

[JustBuzzin]

Regarding Zion. Here is his contract moving forward.

2024-25/ $36,725,670 / $18,362,835 guaranteed (fully guaranteed 1/7/25)
2025-26/ $39,446,090/ $0 guaranteed
2026-27/ $42,166,510/ $0 guaranteed
2027-28/ $44,886,930/ $0 guaranteed

Guarantee triggers exist if certain criteria has been met:
20% of 2025-26 salary becomes guaranteed if passes all six of his weigh-in checkpoints during the 2024-25 season
40% of 2025-26 salary becomes guaranteed if plays >= 41 games during 2024-25 season
additional 20% if plays >= 51 games
remaining 20% if plays >= 61 games
Salaries for 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons can be re-guaranteed if above metrics are hit the season prior

Further protections via:
Weight must be less than 295 lbs; body fat monitored
Injury sustained to right foot

Sooooooooo right now he has played 6/27 games for Pelicans this year and appears to be trending to not hit all his games played bonuses for next year which means New Orleans/Whoever trades for him can essentially waive him without much penalty. Because of this the risk of the acquiring team is so low that I think teams will still be willing to toss Pelicans some value outside of just expiring contracts, and will likely be very opposed to bringing on long-term money as a team that has never paid the Lux Tax before.

Zion is a no brainer for us we have nothing to lose. Miles is good and young enough to have some value. Throw in the Miami or Dallas 1st and fillers we should have a deal.

Zion can get healthy no need to rush him we aren't playing for much this year. If we get lucky we also might have a top 5 pick to add to the core with Zion. If Zion can't get healthy we just move on.


Win/Win situation for us.

[JMAC3]

[Zion is a no brainer for us we have nothing to lose. Miles is good and young enough to have some value. Throw in the Miami or Dallas 1st and fillers we should have a deal.

Zion can get healthy no need to rush him we aren't playing for much this year. If we get lucky we also might have a top 5 pick to add to the core with Zion. If Zion can't get healthy we just move on.


Win/Win situation for us.

If all it cost was Miles and one of the bonus 1sts we have then yeah we probably should go for it, but I doubt Pelicans are moving him that cheaply. From the Hornets standpoint if we did that deal and in 12 months he was 300+ lbs, still wasn't healthy we could just waive him. Have cap space and be down a pick that might not be that valuable, but if he comes back and is healthy and looks like a top 30 player we won the deal easily. That is why I think even Pelicans won't trade him that cheap.

For the Pelicans yeah they get a healthy Miles, but he likely isn't moving the needle a ton for that team who lacks top tier talent. Murray-Jones-Murphy-Bridges- Missi isn't doing anything. At that point they probably just prefer cap space to Miles, which they could find in another deal via expiring contracts or they could just outright waive Zion and have cap space. I think even in his current state he is probably worth more than that.

Because fast forward 12 months, let's say Zion is still not healthy and Pelicans are on the verge of just waiving him. I still think several teams at that point would still be offering a first round pick to see if they could fix him. So it does them no good to take a similar deal now.

I wouldn't be shocked if Pelicans asking price was 3 firsts right now. Which at that point that is too much risk for me.

[JayTWill]

Knicks' fans have concerns about KAT's defense at the 5 and some would like better rim protection behind him and also that could play beside him in the Gobert role. The perimeter defense has not been as impressive as expected for whatever reason. OG has been one of the best defenders in the league for years but Mikal's numbers dropped off over the last couple years. Mikal seems to be improving on that end for us but he got off to a slow start. Hart is a great energy guy but his overall defense can be a bit hit and miss. McBride is solid but limited by his size in some ways.

I'm not sure how Richards would fit on the Knicks honestly. Offensively he seems similar to Mitch with better free throw shooting but Mitch's limited offense and efficiency decreased with the arrival of Brunson. Brunson seems to have improved as a playmaker this year but some of that may be because of the spacing KAT provides at the 5. He has rarely thrown a lob pass for Mitch over the previous 2 seasons and he doesn't really pass to him as a rim runner. If Richards is dependent on the ball handlers creating easy looks for him at the rim his offense may suffer on the Knicks. The screening and crashing the glass is how Mitch has made his impact in the offense which I assume Richards could do.

Defensively KAT and the team as a whole can look lost playing drop coverage. Teams are shooting an insane 70.3% against KAT at the rim this season but I don't know what to make of that number. Teams are also shooting 73.5% against Bam this year while the Knicks own Jericho Sims has a league low 38% against him at the rim and he was just removed from the rotation. The Knicks also have another center prospect in Hukporti that has an crazy block rate but he essentially jumps at everything so I can see how it leads to him being out of position at times and how he could easily be a foul magnet. Richards sounds like a solid shot blocker but I don't know enough about him to know if he is a disciplined defender in that regard.

Thank you for your response.

Yeah most players have warts in the NBA. You can't expect KAT to be a top 5 offensive center and also anchor a defense. Just like Richards isn't going to be great at protecting the rim, creating offense and switching on defense. Those are the elite players of the league that very limited holes in their games, the other 400 players you have to accept the flaws.

Looking at EPM, Hukporti and Sims seem pretty much unplayable on offense. Which is probably why Sims is out of the rotation, Nick is a clear upgrade over both of those guys. No doubt Richards would help the Knicks, but again Charlotte shouldn't be in a rush to give away a productive player on a great contract.

I definitely understand the flaws in every player. I'm just trying to figure out how Richards would fit on the team and where his strengths are. The offense has still functioned well with Sims on the court outside of garbage time (122.3 Off. Rating according to cleantheglass) and don't think they are looking for more offense from the 5 spot. NBA.com had the Hartenstein, Robinson and Sims in the bottom 10% in shot attempts per 100 possessions of the 100 players listed at center last year.

This year KAT ranks 12th, Mark Williams 17th in his limited games, Nick Richard 65th, Hukporti 92 and Sims 96th out of 98 players listed at center. Thibs is definitely not going to use Richards like KAT and despite Hartenstein being a much more skilled offensive player in comparison to Mitch they were both near the bottom of the league in shot attempts with Thibs and Brunson with similar roles until the entire team got injured last year.

If Richards' shot attempts are cut in half and he drops down to the bottom 10% in attempts like every other non-KAT center for the Knicks his offensive value will be lessened so I was curious how he impacted the game defensively since the Hornets seem to better with him off the court defensively especially before Mark returned despite who the other options at center were. I wasn't sure if there were weaknesses in his game defensively outside switching and guarding in space that his shot blocking did not make up for but I don't watch enough of him to know.

[fatlever]

to do list
1. trade miles before his value gets lower
2. trade micic for anything
3. trade richards while his stats look good
4. trade nsj before he gets cut next fall

[SWedd523]

As long as they only get traded for draft picks. Don't want to interrupt the 7 year plan to contention

[JMAC3]

to do list
1. trade miles before his value gets lower
2. trade micic for anything
3. trade richards while his stats look good
4. trade nsj before he gets cut next fall

What are we trading any of these guys for? How would that make us better?

Miles hasn't even played well and he still grades out as 76% OFF EPM, we desperately need offense. Do you think we are getting a better offensive player(s) back for him?

Richards makes 5 million, at that price he is a good value to the Hornets even if we benched him and he was the 3rd string emergency center behind Diabate. Or are you really just fiending to see more Taj Gibson and pick up 2 2nd round picks?

NSJ doesn't have any trade value, I would rather just keep him in Gboro all year. We would be lucky to get 1 2nd round pick for him.

Micic is available I would assume, but what do you want back for him? More than likely we are taking back an unwanted salary for next year for maybe 1 2nd round pick? Is that even something that we would want?

[MasterIchiro]

Martin the brick layer hero ball wonder needs to go at the deadline.

That's my only request.

Hopefully the 2025 lottery prospect can start in place of Josh Green, moving Josh Green to the bench where Cody is expendable.

The return is not important.

[Rich4114]

to do list
1. trade miles before his value gets lower
2. trade micic for anything
3. trade richards while his stats look good
4. trade nsj before he gets cut next fall

+1 to all of this

[Rich4114]

to do list
1. trade miles before his value gets lower
2. trade micic for anything
3. trade richards while his stats look good
4. trade nsj before he gets cut next fall

What are we trading any of these guys for? How would that make us better?

Miles hasn't even played well and he still grades out as 76% OFF EPM, we desperately need offense. Do you think we are getting a better offensive player(s) back for him?

Richards makes 5 million, at that price he is a good value to the Hornets even if we benched him and he was the 3rd string emergency center behind Diabate. Or are you really just fiending to see more Taj Gibson and pick up 2 2nd round picks?

NSJ doesn't have any trade value, I would rather just keep him in Gboro all year. We would be lucky to get 1 2nd round pick for him.

Micic is available I would assume, but what do you want back for him? More than likely we are taking back an unwanted salary for next year for maybe 1 2nd round pick? Is that even something that we would want?

I suspect the only deal that makes sense for Miles is if another team needs a (potentially) productive wing coming back for offensive depth and salary matching. Miles alone won't yield anything worthwhile though. I'm assuming he's not moved.

Micic offers us nothing but negative save for 1 game every 20. I'm sure we can just have Wong bring the ball up and look dumbfounded for 14 seconds at the top of the key instead. At least he might drive it.

Richards, despite what the box score says is an enormous negative for us. Stop being tricked by the box score. He plays low IQ basketball, causes multiple turnovers per game directly or indirectly, losses 50/50's regularly and plays poor defense aside from the occasional block. Diabate is our best defensive C and you can even back that up with stats at this point.

NSJ has potential (to another team) but I've seen this with the Hornets before. Like a lot. He will fade into the ether and his last year just won't be picked up. If he's a piece in a bigger trade, it might offer some value to a team wanting to take a swing on a prospect who is only in their second year. He has no fit on a team like ours and will probably not learn how to be a good pro here like he might have a chance to elsewhere. Get value now if possible before he's worth the same as Bouknight.

All this said, I think Micic would yield a possible 2nd rounder. Nick Richards could probably bring in two seconds on his own. The more interesting part is taking our own flyer on different players who can take their mins.

Since we're tanking, let KJ or Wong play Micic mins until Mann is back. This season is cooked and we're obviously tanking by having LaMelo out for calf injury management and Mark foot injury management (3 months after his "strain" mind you). Which is OK, but we need to accept the reality of this season now. It's evaluation of what pieces should be here long term and nobody above should be part of that plan.

In fact, if any of those players are on the roster next season save for MAYBE Miles, it's an epic fail

[GoBobs]

I expect some trades that are similar to what we did last year.

Future assets will make the team more attractive to a new buyer.

[MasterIchiro]

Nobody is going to take Micic unless they are sending back a multiyear contract which Hornets should refuse. Hornets will most likely decline the team option on his contract for next season, in my opinion.

[fatlever]

Nobody is going to take Micic unless they are sending back a multiyear contract which Hornets should refuse. Hornets will most likely decline the team option on his contract for next season, in my opinion.

I'm assuming if there are no teams out there willing to give up a second round pick for him - probably arent, that we will negotiate a buyout with him shortly after the trade deadline where he'll either sign with Denver or work a deal to go back to Europe.

[MasterIchiro]

Right. So the trade list should exclude Micic.

Martin will go.

Maybe Richards, but only for an overpay.

No sense shopping anyone else at low value.

[Rays Pompadour]

What about these Michael Porter, Jr. rumors? Any thought of him in teal? Nuggets reportedly want two rotation players. Would Miles and Green work?

[amcoolio]

We could keep Richards on this roster for the next 10 years and he would not affect our win total in any way.

If someone offers any sort of positive value for any of our players besides LaMelo or Miller (and maybe Mark), then we take it. The rest don't matter

[JMAC3]

We could keep Richards on this roster for the next 10 years and he would not affect our win total in any way.

If someone offers any sort of positive value for any of our players besides LaMelo or Miller (and maybe Mark), then we take it. The rest don't matter

Based on what? Because the stats say he is pretty solid.

47th % Overall EPM - 39/90 among all centers in the league.
Basically, a league average player making 5 million, but yes he sucks lol.
https://dunksandthrees.com/stats/player

3rd best Off Rating on team, best Def Rating on team.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2025.html#per_poss::29

6th best BPM among the 19 guys that have suited up for us this year.

It is so random how this board always needs a scapegoat, no stats to back it up, just whatever your keen eyes catch during the game. The funny part is if he wasn't on our team, people would be posting his stat lines saying we should go acquire him for 2 2nds, I pretty much can guarantee that. but yes let's rush Richards out of town so we can go sign someone that ranks lower than him in EPM and makes more money than him. That is how we get it done.

[JMAC3]

Martin the brick layer hero ball wonder needs to go at the deadline.

That's my only request.

Hopefully the 2025 lottery prospect can start in place of Josh Green, moving Josh Green to the bench where Cody is expendable.

The return is not important.

Cody Martin is 91% Def EPM - 37th best in the NBA.
Overall he is 57th%, above average.
8.6 million unguaranteed contract next yr.

Meanwhile Josh Green
31% Def EPM
Overall he is 28th%, well below average.
28 million guaranteed over the next 2 yrs.

But yes Cody is the issue.
We should definitely keep the guy that advanced stats dislike more and also making more money in Josh Green.

[JMAC3]

We should want to get rid of guys like this..
Vasa Micic sucks, he is 7% Overall EPM
Nick Smith Jr. sucks, he is 7% Overall EPM.


... but we are insistent the issues are
Richards 47% Overall EPM
Martin 57% Overall EPM
Bridges 47% Overall EPM

Guys that would be still be getting regular rotation minutes on other teams because they are league average players.

We already did this with
PJ Washington 75% EPM this year
Kelly Oubre 66% EPM this year

but yet half the board was convinced those guys were the reasons we were losing games...