Spurs Trade Options for the 2024/25 trade window

[G R E Y]

wot?!

Read on Twitter

Oh? Hmm...

Read on Twitter

[CIN-C-STAR]

Trey Loles and his parting from SA by posting a photo of himself giving the finger on IG can go **** themselves in perpetuity.

Theis I like; Val, too, as I mentioned before.

As to Simons, I don't get the appeal. I think Devin is a year younger, better overall player, and as to Simon's spacing, if that's tied to 3s, then he'd be 9th on our roster this season, right behind Collins. But Simons is shooting a career low 33.2% from 3 this season so it may be an anomaly.

We also drafted Castle who is on a rookie contract, a wonderful defender, good driver and is already third best on the team as to getting to the FT line, with efficiency needing improvement.

We have far more pressing teams needs like back up C and long term starting PG and SF and so giving up assets for a player at whose position we actually are set for present and future when we could use those assets for more pressing areas of need makes no sense.

I don’t think I was aware of that about Lyles, though I’m not much of a social media guy.
Bummer. Always thought he was a good teammate and good guy and I like his game (as a bench player).
Wonder what the issue was? Just playing time?

[CIN-C-STAR]

:o wot?!

Read on Twitter

Oh? Hmm...

Read on Twitter

Now that is the kind of player I’d be willing to dig into the war chest for.
Guy is a gym rat, and would solve an area of concern for us (lead guard) long term.
But the cost would likely be steep. Like Castle, Vassell and 2 FRPs or something like that would be my guess.
Tough call, but I’m pretty high on Fox.

[G R E Y]

Trey Loles and his parting from SA by posting a photo of himself giving the finger on IG can go **** themselves in perpetuity.

Theis I like; Val, too, as I mentioned before.

As to Simons, I don't get the appeal. I think Devin is a year younger, better overall player, and as to Simon's spacing, if that's tied to 3s, then he'd be 9th on our roster this season, right behind Collins. But Simons is shooting a career low 33.2% from 3 this season so it may be an anomaly.

We also drafted Castle who is on a rookie contract, a wonderful defender, good driver and is already third best on the team as to getting to the FT line, with efficiency needing improvement.

We have far more pressing teams needs like back up C and long term starting PG and SF and so giving up assets for a player at whose position we actually are set for present and future when we could use those assets for more pressing areas of need makes no sense.

I don’t think I was aware of that about Lyles, though I’m not much of a social media guy.
Bummer. Always thought he was a good teammate and good guy and I like his game (as a bench player).
Wonder what the issue was? Just playing time?

We got him after the whole idiot twin who backed out of a deal debacle. We have expectations of players and summer programs. After the first season, he was given his summer program and came back fat for a pro player. So he was benched. I don't know who the **** he thought he was to just blow it off while posting pics of himself in various vacation spots and still expecting minutes because we didn't have another true PF but hey, he can keep on being that guy so long as he's not on our team.

[imagump1313]

:o wot?!

Read on Twitter

Oh? Hmm...

Read on Twitter

Now that is the kind of player I’d be willing to dig into the war chest for.
Guy is a gym rat, and would solve an area of concern for us (lead guard) long term.
But the cost would likely be steep. Like Castle, Vassell and 2 FRPs or something like that would be my guess.
Tough call, but I’m pretty high on Fox.

He has a reputation for being invisible most of the game then having huge 4th quarters.

I know this because he kills my fantasy teams when I use him

But thats what we need is a finisher so I would be interested for a fair price.

[imagump1313]

Trey Loles and his parting from SA by posting a photo of himself giving the finger on IG can go **** themselves in perpetuity.

Theis I like; Val, too, as I mentioned before.

As to Simons, I don't get the appeal. I think Devin is a year younger, better overall player, and as to Simon's spacing, if that's tied to 3s, then he'd be 9th on our roster this season, right behind Collins. But Simons is shooting a career low 33.2% from 3 this season so it may be an anomaly.

We also drafted Castle who is on a rookie contract, a wonderful defender, good driver and is already third best on the team as to getting to the FT line, with efficiency needing improvement.

We have far more pressing teams needs like back up C and long term starting PG and SF and so giving up assets for a player at whose position we actually are set for present and future when we could use those assets for more pressing areas of need makes no sense.

I don’t think I was aware of that about Lyles, though I’m not much of a social media guy.
Bummer. Always thought he was a good teammate and good guy and I like his game (as a bench player).
Wonder what the issue was? Just playing time?

We got him after the whole idiot twin who backed out of a deal debacle. We have expectations of players and summer programs. After the first season, he was given his summer program and came back fat for a pro player. So he was benched. I don't know who the **** he thought he was to just blow it off while posting pics of himself in various vacation spots and still expecting minutes because we didn't have another true PF but hey, he can keep on being that guy so long as he's not on our team.

Grey beat me to it but that pretty much sums it up. He was a decent player when he wanted to be but it didnt really seem important to him to put in the work.

[Rustyman]

Guys, I will ask you to dampen the Fox talk. Just remember that his representation is Klutch and I think the Spurs have a strong aversion to dealing with them.

Just remember the Dejounte debacle. Dejounte made it clear he was not extending with the Spurs unless it was for the max. The Spurs traded him to Atlanta and he immediately signed a more reasonable deal. The Spurs is not the kind of team who forget that.

What if we trade for Fox, giving up REAL assets and he then decides he wants to explore the free market. That is not even considering that he is optimized in that Kings offense. With the Spurs, he has to fit around Wemby.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Guys, I will ask you to dampen the Fox talk. Just remember that his representation is Klutch and I think the Spurs have a strong aversion to dealing with them.

Just remember the Dejounte debacle. Dejounte made it clear he was not extending with the Spurs unless it was for the max. The Spurs traded him to Atlanta and he immediately signed a more reasonable deal. The Spurs is not the kind of team who forget that.

What if we trade for Fox, giving up REAL assets and he then decides he wants to explore the free market. That is not even considering that he is optimized in that Kings offense. With the Spurs, he has to fit around Wemby.

He is extension eligible now though. I think any trade would include a handshake deal to resign for his max, which he is worth.
Idk, sure seems like there is at least some interest on the part of the Spurs. Can't claim to know much about Fox but the Spurs have connections to Mike Brown, so I'm sure they would due plenty of due diligence about his character before doing any kind of a deal.
I don't like Klutch either, but there isn't really much negotiation to be had here. Fox is unlikely to be supermax eligible, and the Spurs would happily give him a regular max, so he either would want to sign it or not. If not, that would surely be reflected in the trade offer.
I still think it's more unlikely than not, of course, but I'm not opposed to it just because of Klutch (my main opposition to it is the likely inclusion of Castle in a deal, who I'm pretty high on).

[G R E Y]

Gauging how fans feel about a trade centering on something like Fox and Huerter for Devin, Champagnie, and Branham package with some picks going their way?

Works in the trade machine:

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8821420

I'm loathe to part with Dev but acknowledge that with his juicy contract, being younger, talented, it's an attractive lure to get the best player in the deal. They get a 3s shooter in Julian which replaces Huerter, and Branham on a rookie contract in case they want a heater scorer project. It's like getting a 1st without giving one up. Dev and Branham have played the 1 some.

Fox would be a clear positional need plug in and talent upgrade. He'd immediately become the clear second option after Wemby. Huerter, even with a career low 3s efficiency, is still over 37% for his career.

With Fox's desire to contend, or at least see a clear path towards it, we may not yet be at the level of the former, but have a clearer path to the latter, and he'd be a key part of it.

Say we draft a PG in the upcoming draft. It would give us a couple of years to convince Fox to extend while growing the rookie into a bigger role. He just turned 27 on Dec. 20, and will be UFA in 2026/27. Gives us some wiggle room to compete at a higher level, maybe we grow the rookie PG into the PG of the future, which helps us leverage Fox with a contract or trade situation.

Just sort of feels like we need to start considering turning our multiple assets into acquiring better talent. If we have the chance to do so without sacrificing unprotected picks, we should consider it.

[Kineto]

You should check your trade with the spotrac trade machine, as I hardly believe that this one is legal (there is more than $15M difference between incoming and outgoing salaries for the Spurs).

But it's probably possible to work on this basis with a third team with capspace like Detroit.

And it's probably not enough value for the kings, SAS should probably add some pic, but there's plenty of it, so no big deals either.


For me, this potential trade is linked to two big questions :
1 - should the spurs get their 2nd option behind wemby externally (via trade or free agency) or internally via the draft.
2 - if they go to the "external" route, in all the disgruntled stars who will ask for a trade in the next 2-3 years, is Fox the best opportunity that the Spurs can expect ? Or should they save their assets and cap space for a better player (who may never be available) ?

[G R E Y]

You should check your trade with the spotrac trade machine, as I hardly believe that this one is legal (there is more than $15M difference between incoming and outgoing salaries for the Spurs).

But it's probably possible to work on this basis with a third team with capspace like Detroit.

And it's probably not enough value for the kings, SAS should probably add some pic, but there's plenty of it, so no big deals either.


For me, this potential trade is linked to two big questions :
1 - should the spurs get their 2nd option behind wemby externally (via trade or free agency) or internally via the draft.
2 - if they go to the "external" route, in all the disgruntled stars who will ask for a trade in the next 2-3 years, is Fox the best opportunity that the Spurs can expect ? Or should they save their assets and cap space for a better player (who may never be available) ?

Thank you!

I did it in Spotrac and had to add Tre Jones to make the deal work.

Of course some picks package would need to go the other way but it would also depend on who we'd have to outbid for a picks and players package. As it stands that's strong one with four rotation players, two starters, going their way. We would have to consider what we're giving up for the worst case scenario of Fox leaving and us having to find another trade partner.

I agree that there is more than one way to find a true second star, but we also have to try something at some point. Devin is inconsistent and it's becoming a this is who he is type of scenario and we need a more solid floor from him on both ends. I'm not giving up on him and may still be recent grapes sour, but it's not every day that Fox talent becomes potentially available.

It's a way of raising the floor and ceiling for at least 2 years and in that time giving us a period to develop draft picks and see who we hit on. If we get an emerging star, great, we have options. If we don't, we can negotiate with Fox, who if he wants a super max should look elsewhere, frankly.

Plus four rotation players we've developed from the ground up is a LOT of corporate knowledge going out. But at some point you have to consolidate and pounce on the chance you have rather than the one that may not come or the one you push to create (target a player, inquire about availability).

Losing a third of the team, all good guys is a big chemistry and morale hit but winning soothes the business decisions somewhat.

But the trade even works if it's Fox, Huerter for Vassell, Tre, and Branham and we keep Champagnie, who I'd rather have than Branham.


We have to consider upgrades for present and future. Fox may be a player we have targeted as one to use assets on. If so, for sure we have prepared prospective packages, that include some tough decisions like using players on long term (Devin) and short term contracts (Tre is UFA, JC very team friendly, Branham rookie). Our stellar cap management discipline should work as sweeteners as well.

So we can both draft and continue to develop well and see if we have a second star that way. But you're right to question whether Fox or another player is the best present upgrade.

It's clear Fox would be a talent, ready now upgrade though. Is now the time to bite or am I just too reactionary from a missed opportunity of a winnable game slipping through our grasp via decisions made in part from top down? Castle can't sub himself in, after all...

[Rustyman]

Just sort of feels like we need to start considering turning our multiple assets into acquiring better talent. If we have the chance to do so without sacrificing unprotected picks, we should consider it.

This is the KEY. You cannot hold on to draft assets forever as they tend to devalue the closer you get to the draft and once the draft position is confirmed. However, the Spurs should not make a move which puts their medium and long-term future at risk.

[Rustyman]

Is now the time to bite or am I just too reactionary from a missed opportunity of a winnable game slipping through our grasp via decisions made in part from top down? Castle can't sub himself in, after all...

That is why I always take a day off before responding after a match. Of course, unless it is Branham. I think we have seen enough from him to trade him (in a package) for a more traditional backup centre.

[G R E Y]

Is now the time to bite or am I just too reactionary from a missed opportunity of a winnable game slipping through our grasp via decisions made in part from top down? Castle can't sub himself in, after all...

That is why I always take a day off before responding after a match. Of course, unless it is Branham. I think we have seen enough from him to trade him (in a package) for a more traditional backup centre.

Yeah dud pick. Has the tools but can't put it together consistently, to say nothing of his porous D.

But a couple of days and a game later and we're wondering about Dev's ceiling ie/ how much higher can it be even if he finds consistency. Not sure how many games to find it as starter, but there's definitely less patience with that new contract, and it looks like he's pushing his game under the pressure of it. The poor output but for some flashes here and there on both ends has me wondering about his trade value. He and Tre have certainly been featured more, whether that has been what's best for optimizing team strengths at a given point is another matter.

I love Devin - and Tre - but we have to start looking at taking the load off Wemby in a more steady way. Part of that has to do with optimizing our strengths and we're not doing that with DNPs for healthy players who could help and should have been given a chance to. And part of that is looking at consolidating assets.

Tre is UFA after this season, something to consider. Devin has a manageable team controlled contract.

If we were to leverage our assets for Fox I'd want to retain him at around $40M or so annually, but not in the $50M+ range. But then again we'd have a couple of seasons to see how things fit to decide.

One thing I noticed was a similar pattern of what he's doing with the Kings FO to what Murray did with us. He started signalling off season how he worked too hard to not win and only wanted to win and would only sign at the max but refused to extend with us. Then we accommodated him, traded for a boatload, and he signed a team friendly definitely below max eligible extension with the Hawks.

Fox refused an early extension with Kings, also said he wants to see how they can put together a contender, and wants the max.

Both are repped by Klutch. This is not insurmountable but best to approach with caution. I don't think Fox is the impressionable type and agency works for the player, so hopefully this is his flex and not hiding behind an agent. So far things have been forthright. I'd rather know if a player has issues to see if they can be worked out.

Anyway, the difference is that Murray's fit on the Hawks was always dubious whereas Fox on paper fits with us far better, and is the bigger, more impactful overall talent.

I really have no idea about Fox's or Huerter's D, so that's impact of a whole other side of the game to consider.

I would be surprised if we pulled the trigger this season but then we could lose Tre as UFA. He'll only be 25 early Jan. Dev is 24.

Do we want to push for this now and affect our impending cap? D o we need to? It's clear we are not fully utilizing our weapons to help win games.

Then again, if we got a favourable deal, netting a talent like Fox would be hard to pass up.

We keep hearing about Wemby's Christmas debut, and I'm super proud of his individual game, but we lost another winnable game. There's only so much moral victory we can settle for and settling is exactly the hollow feeling that no longer satiates. This is good pain. It tells us what needs fixing. We can play better. But we have a chance to raise the floor and ceiling. It'll be interesting to see how we proceed.

[Rustyman]

For me, this potential trade is linked to two big questions :
1 - should the spurs get their 2nd option behind wemby externally (via trade or free agency) or internally via the draft.
2 - if they go to the "external" route, in all the disgruntled stars who will ask for a trade in the next 2-3 years, is Fox the best opportunity that the Spurs can expect ? Or should they save their assets and cap space for a better player (who may never be available) ?

For this season and the next, I think the Spurs should look externally, like Thomas of the Nets. I don't like the Fox route as I think it will knock our rebuild off track as we will have to give up too much assets.

[Rustyman]

We keep hearing about Wemby's Christmas debut, and I'm super proud of his individual game, but we lost another winnable game. There's only so much moral victory we can settle for and settling is exactly the hollow feeling that no longer satiates. This is good pain. It tells us what needs fixing. We can play better. But we have a chance to raise the floor and ceiling. It'll be interesting to see how we proceed.

I think we are beyond the moral victory stage. I will be really disappointed if we have a less than .500 record at season's end. The positive me wants to see a playoff or play-in spot.

[imagump1313]

Is now the time to bite or am I just too reactionary from a missed opportunity of a winnable game slipping through our grasp via decisions made in part from top down? Castle can't sub himself in, after all...

That is why I always take a day off before responding after a match. Of course, unless it is Branham. I think we have seen enough from him to trade him (in a package) for a more traditional backup centre.

Yeah dud pick. Has the tools but can't put it together consistently, to say nothing of his porous D.

But a couple of days and a game later and we're wondering about Dev's ceiling ie/ how much higher can it be even if he finds consistency. Not sure how many games to find it as starter, but there's definitely less patience with that new contract, and it looks like he's pushing his game under the pressure of it. The poor output but for some flashes here and there on both ends has me wondering about his trade value. He and Tre have certainly been featured more, whether that has been what's best for optimizing team strengths at a given point is another matter.

I love Devin - and Tre - but we have to start looking at taking the load off Wemby in a more steady way. Part of that has to do with optimizing our strengths and we're not doing that with DNPs for healthy players who could help and should have been given a chance to. And part of that is looking at consolidating assets.

Tre is UFA after this season, something to consider. Devin has a manageable team controlled contract.

If we were to leverage our assets for Fox I'd want to retain him at around $40M or so annually, but not in the $50M+ range. But then again we'd have a couple of seasons to see how things fit to decide.

One thing I noticed was a similar pattern of what he's doing with the Kings FO to what Murray did with us. He started signalling off season how he worked too hard to not win and only wanted to win and would only sign at the max but refused to extend with us. Then we accommodated him, traded for a boatload, and he signed a team friendly definitely below max eligible extension with the Hawks.

Fox refused an early extension with Kings, also said he wants to see how they can put together a contender, and wants the max.

Both are repped by Klutch. This is not insurmountable but best to approach with caution. I don't think Fox is the impressionable type and agency works for the player, so hopefully this is his flex and not hiding behind an agent. So far things have been forthright. I'd rather know if a player has issues to see if they can be worked out.

Anyway, the difference is that Murray's fit on the Hawks was always dubious whereas Fox on paper fits with us far better, and is the bigger, more impactful overall talent.

I really have no idea about Fox's or Huerter's D, so that's impact of a whole other side of the game to consider.

I would be surprised if we pulled the trigger this season but then we could lose Tre as UFA. He'll only be 25 early Jan. Dev is 24.

Do we want to push for this now and affect our impending cap? D o we need to? It's clear we are not fully utilizing our weapons to help win games.

Then again, if we got a favourable deal, netting a talent like Fox would be hard to pass up.

We keep hearing about Wemby's Christmas debut, and I'm super proud of his individual game, but we lost another winnable game. There's only so much moral victory we can settle for and settling is exactly the hollow feeling that no longer satiates. This is good pain. It tells us what needs fixing. We can play better. But we have a chance to raise the floor and ceiling. It'll be interesting to see how we proceed.

The more i think about this the less I like it.

I like Fox but the cost of getting him here would be kind of crazy (even though I would say that to get him I would offer anyone on the roster besides Wemby). Also that salary and potential salary is too much IMO. We already have a much lesser version of Fox in Vassell and he is much cheaper and already locked up. If Vassell could be coached up he would never be as good as Fox but he could at least be comparable at a much more affordable price. We used to coach up players here but now it seems like we just let them do whatever.

I've looked at every roster in the league for potential trades or players that might be available but nothing realistically seems to be out there that wouldnt be either too expensive or mess with chemistry.

With that I think our best option is to wait one more draft. Vassell is starting to prove he isnt a number 2 guy with Wemby but I still think he is part of our core. I think our number 2 might already be here in Castle. I was a little underwhelmed with him at first but he is showing more and more flashes of being that guy.(although I still dont think he is a PG)

I think our core going forward should be Wemby, Castle, Sochan and then Vassell. With that being said if that is the case Castle shouldnt be on the end of the bench late in games. Let the guy play and figure it out. I would rather have a potential core piece blow a game than a fringe NBA player of no consequence do it. Im going to use Champaigne as an example again. When Vassell and Sochan returned from injuries, why did we have to watch Champaigne start for how many games until we put them back into the lineup? Both have said they could have played more when they came back. Let the core be the core and work with them to be the core. Stop all this experimenting.

If we can make a trade without giving away a ton of assets, do it. But I really dont see anyone out there that would be potentially available thats going to help us very much at this point this year.

We still have Paul next year if we want to go that route so making a panic move to get a PG isn't necessary. But as someone in a different thread mentioned 'us mf-ers are blessed to have Wemby" we are also blessed that Paul hasn't gotten hurt yet.

On a different note:IMO Barnes is hurt but we are actively trying to keep his consecutive game streak going which would explain why he plays a few minutes starting then is on the bench the rest of the game.

[G R E Y]

That is why I always take a day off before responding after a match. Of course, unless it is Branham. I think we have seen enough from him to trade him (in a package) for a more traditional backup centre.

Yeah dud pick. Has the tools but can't put it together consistently, to say nothing of his porous D.

But a couple of days and a game later and we're wondering about Dev's ceiling ie/ how much higher can it be even if he finds consistency. Not sure how many games to find it as starter, but there's definitely less patience with that new contract, and it looks like he's pushing his game under the pressure of it. The poor output but for some flashes here and there on both ends has me wondering about his trade value. He and Tre have certainly been featured more, whether that has been what's best for optimizing team strengths at a given point is another matter.

I love Devin - and Tre - but we have to start looking at taking the load off Wemby in a more steady way. Part of that has to do with optimizing our strengths and we're not doing that with DNPs for healthy players who could help and should have been given a chance to. And part of that is looking at consolidating assets.

Tre is UFA after this season, something to consider. Devin has a manageable team controlled contract.

If we were to leverage our assets for Fox I'd want to retain him at around $40M or so annually, but not in the $50M+ range. But then again we'd have a couple of seasons to see how things fit to decide.

One thing I noticed was a similar pattern of what he's doing with the Kings FO to what Murray did with us. He started signalling off season how he worked too hard to not win and only wanted to win and would only sign at the max but refused to extend with us. Then we accommodated him, traded for a boatload, and he signed a team friendly definitely below max eligible extension with the Hawks.

Fox refused an early extension with Kings, also said he wants to see how they can put together a contender, and wants the max.

Both are repped by Klutch. This is not insurmountable but best to approach with caution. I don't think Fox is the impressionable type and agency works for the player, so hopefully this is his flex and not hiding behind an agent. So far things have been forthright. I'd rather know if a player has issues to see if they can be worked out.

Anyway, the difference is that Murray's fit on the Hawks was always dubious whereas Fox on paper fits with us far better, and is the bigger, more impactful overall talent.

I really have no idea about Fox's or Huerter's D, so that's impact of a whole other side of the game to consider.

I would be surprised if we pulled the trigger this season but then we could lose Tre as UFA. He'll only be 25 early Jan. Dev is 24.

Do we want to push for this now and affect our impending cap? D o we need to? It's clear we are not fully utilizing our weapons to help win games.

Then again, if we got a favourable deal, netting a talent like Fox would be hard to pass up.

We keep hearing about Wemby's Christmas debut, and I'm super proud of his individual game, but we lost another winnable game. There's only so much moral victory we can settle for and settling is exactly the hollow feeling that no longer satiates. This is good pain. It tells us what needs fixing. We can play better. But we have a chance to raise the floor and ceiling. It'll be interesting to see how we proceed.

The more i think about this the less I like it.

I like Fox but the cost of getting him here would be kind of crazy (even though I would say that to get him I would offer anyone on the roster besides Wemby). Also that salary and potential salary is too much IMO. We already have a much lesser version of Fox in Vassell and he is much cheaper and already locked up. If Vassell could be coached up he would never be as good as Fox but he could at least be comparable at a much more affordable price. We used to coach up players here but now it seems like we just let them do whatever.

I've looked at every roster in the league for potential trades or players that might be available but nothing realistically seems to be out there that wouldnt be either too expensive or mess with chemistry.

With that I think our best option is to wait one more draft. Vassell is starting to prove he isnt a number 2 guy with Wemby but I still think he is part of our core. I think our number 2 might already be here in Castle. I was a little underwhelmed with him at first but he is showing more and more flashes of being that guy.(although I still dont think he is a PG)

I think our core going forward should be Wemby, Castle, Sochan and then Vassell. With that being said if that is the case Castle shouldnt be on the end of the bench late in games. Let the guy play and figure it out. I would rather have a potential core piece blow a game than a fringe NBA player of no consequence do it. Im going to use Champaigne as an example again. When Vassell and Sochan returned from injuries, why did we have to watch Champaigne start for how many games until we put them back into the lineup? Both have said they could have played more when they came back. Let the core be the core and work with them to be the core. Stop all this experimenting.

If we can make a trade without giving away a ton of assets, do it. But I really dont see anyone out there that would be potentially available thats going to help us very much at this point this year.

We still have Paul next year if we want to go that route so making a panic move to get a PG isn't necessary. But as someone in a different thread mentioned 'us mf-ers are blessed to have Wemby" we are also blessed that Paul hasn't gotten hurt yet.

On a different note:IMO Barnes is hurt but we are actively trying to keep his consecutive game streak going which would explain why he plays a few minutes starting then is on the bench the rest of the game.

Yeah on the whole I agree with prospective cost for Fox being prohibitive, both for what it would take to acquire him in assets and to keep him in cap pay.

Are we really that team to already pay a guy potentially over $50M/season? That's if he qualifies, but say he does. What would that do to our cap and ability to maneuver to make other moves? This may be further hampered by already depleting our assets to get him to begin with. Fox feels more like the piece you acquire as a final put you over the top to contend.

Yesterday on the GB someone said a Fox package would have to start around Castle Sochan Johnson and multiple unprotected picks including this year's. I explained that Devin would have to go the other way to make the financials work and Castle was a non starter as was likely Sochan, that such a package would be for a Jokic or Giannis type of player. Like we'd be worse off plugging more starter holes after plugging the PG one. And then after that we'd have to pay Fox a truck load? Nope.

Either Fox is good enough to keep his team above water or we're overpaying and I explained we don't actually *need* to trade for Fox, it's not our team with a player who may want out, and there are other options.

But it's one fan negotiating hypotheticals with another. We don't know what it would actually cost to acquire Fox and while we have assets we won't overpay to then financially overpay. The only thing that seems to be clear is that Sac wants ready now players and so to that end Devin fits better as a starting point. But I also agree that the cost (both to acquire and retain) relative to the difference in games between Dev and Fox is something to take a hard look at.

Disagree that we don't coach up players - and there's a long list here to prove it. This is another way of saying we don't hold them accountable as you stated in the other thread and it's clear Pop chews out players even if it's not in the Parker style any more, and it shouldn't be. Whether Mitch Johnson does it, or whether he takes enough for the team with refs I don't know. But it's better to gauge coaching up once Pop returns.

The reason Devin and Sochan didn't start right away is due to the nature of their injuries and protocols in return from them. Be it minutes restriction or easing back in, this is a minor point in terms of their eventual insertion as starters and more to do with just not seeing Champagnie as starter. While I agree he should not be starting, no I don't think we are appeasing Barnes for some useless games played streak - it contradicts the previous point about being conservative with players returning from injury - so which is it, keeping injured players playing or keeping them out? It's just this is who he is at this point and why Sac traded him in favour of DD. Consistency is often the first to go in players who are at some point declining. Yes he is a short term upgrade on and off the court, yes he has helped and may yet again, and yes he is declining and it's also a positional need to address long term.

Agree that Castle should be getting more burn late, especially on D, and I too would rather he learn from the experience than having Julian out there. If need be, at least sub D and O for one another when necessary.

Also agree about our core and that order, until or unless Devin gets himself back higher.

Wemby accelerates our fixing the PG and SF and back up C positions but I agree that it need not necessarily be Fox, just again depends on cost and I think we have leverage, not having to do anything but coach up our own. For now. But we surely have to be looking around at upgrades because not playing a third of the team and overtaxing those who do with roles beyond them is not the way to go. I get testing limits but at some point we know what we have with guys like Julian Keldon and we are closer to seeing the ceiling with Devin now. He showed more last season and we need that guy back. And Pop. We need that guy back, too. My sense is Mitch **** with the rotations and being more of a positive message guy rather than lay into a player guy is reaching its limits and getting diminishing returns now, too. I like him but there's no substitute for gravitas and doing what a coach with tenure, if I can put it that way, says to. We'll use our available tools better soon.

[Rustyman]

With that I think our best option is to wait one more draft. Vassell is starting to prove he isnt a number 2 guy with Wemby but I still think he is part of our core. I think our number 2 might already be here in Castle. I was a little underwhelmed with him at first but he is showing more and more flashes of being that guy.(although I still dont think he is a PG)

Agree but that does not prevent getting us getting a no.3 guy in someone like either of the Brooklyn Cams which would cost us assets in the 2025/2026 drafts but not impact our core draft capital.

Yeah on the whole I agree with prospective cost for Fox being prohibitive, both for what it would to acquire him in assets and to keep him in cap pay.

This is my key issue with a Fox move, the cost would be prohibitive in both assets and cap space and while he is a good player, I don't think the cost of his acquisition makes sense for the Spurs.

Either Fox is good enough to keep his team above water or we're overpaying and I explained we don't actually *need* to trade for Fox, it's not our team with a player who may want out, and there are other options.

Precisely.


And Pop. We need that guy back, too. My sense is Mitch **** with the rotations and being more of a positive message guy rather than lay into a player guy is reaching its limits and getting diminishing returns now, too. I like him but there's no substitute for gravitas and doing what a coach with tenure, if I can put it that way, says to. We'll use our available tools better soon.

Agree, need to see Pop back and how this team performs with him. We have had another jump by Wemby, the expected improvement of Sochan however, we have also seen the regression of Vassell and Johnson. We need to see if Pop can focus this bunch to perform more consistently.

[imagump1313]

Spurs Nation getting weird...