2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 2

[VaDe255]

Why would he leave tens of millions on the table by not re-signing with the team that trades for him? People said the same thing about Donovan Mitchell

Players leave money on the table all the time for situations they prefer, whether it's better team fit, bigger market, or lifestyle reasons. Fox might value being in a winning environment or playing somewhere he truly wants over squeezing out the max. It's not always just about the money.

Kawhi is a good example because he left the Toronto Raptors after winning a championship in 2019, despite the Raptors being able to offer him a supermax deal worth significantly more than any other team.

Kyrie left the Boston Celtics and despite them being able to offer him more money than he ultimately got elsewhere.

Not every player is the same and I have no idea what Fox might do, but he holds the cards when it comes to where he wants to end up.

There have been exceptions but in this day and age, agents basically convince their clients to take the biggest amount of money offered. I don’t see him saying trade me to the Heat or nowhere. This isn’t a Lillard situation where Lillard already made hundreds of millions and was already on a long term deal when he asked for Heat

Do they now? It just happened this year again when Paul George left the Clippers and signed with the 76ers.

[Hallstar]

Herro has not developed wonderully. Herro is the same Herro he's always been. Still dominating the ball. Still taking way more shots that he should. He's averaging 6 more FG attempts per game than our best player.

If this was true Jimmy would've gotten his extension with no conversation.

Herro having a good stretch has nothing to do with Jimmy’s extension lol.

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

[Hallstar]

Players leave money on the table all the time for situations they prefer, whether it's better team fit, bigger market, or lifestyle reasons. Fox might value being in a winning environment or playing somewhere he truly wants over squeezing out the max. It's not always just about the money.

Kawhi is a good example because he left the Toronto Raptors after winning a championship in 2019, despite the Raptors being able to offer him a supermax deal worth significantly more than any other team.

Kyrie left the Boston Celtics and despite them being able to offer him more money than he ultimately got elsewhere.

Not every player is the same and I have no idea what Fox might do, but he holds the cards when it comes to where he wants to end up.

There have been exceptions but in this day and age, agents basically convince their clients to take the biggest amount of money offered. I don’t see him saying trade me to the Heat or nowhere. This isn’t a Lillard situation where Lillard already made hundreds of millions and was already on a long term deal when he asked for Heat

Do they now? It just happened this year again when Paul George left the Clippers and signed with the 76ers.

May happen with older players on their way out. A young player should be taking every cent he can

[MartyConlonJr]

There have been exceptions but in this day and age, most agents convince their clients to take the biggest amount of money offered. I don’t see him saying trade me to the Heat or nowhere. This isn’t a Lillard situation where Lillard already made hundreds of millions and was already on a long term deal when he asked for Heat

De'Aaron Fox already has made 187.5 million in his career, so he does have generational wealth, and he and Bam are buddies who played together at Kentucky and worked well together, so he has motives for Miami.

But he would pass up maybe 57 million on his next contract to go to FA. Kings can offer 229 mill for 4 years with supermax, anyone else can offer 172 million for 4 years. I do see why a player would be convinced to stay.

But for this second or third wave of players in the supermax era, I do wonder if either players or executives, having seen the effects of giving supermax to guys that aren't really on that tier, makes them think differently. Basically, it is a killer contract that dooms player and franchise if the player is not truly a superstar (and possibly if they are):
- Jaylen Brown: Probably not this level of player, but signed it while the team was already a contender, but Boston is already looking at what they have to do to break up the team long term as a result.
- Russell Westbrook: A few triple double seasons that went nowhere special then passed around teams ever since.
- Stephen Curry: Worth it, true MVP calibre superstar, but still necessitated killing the splash brothers eventually. Signed at a time the Warriors were in every finals.
- Giannis Antetokounmpo: Another true MVP calibre superstar, signed after winning a championship. Still, this team is in quite a cap hell, given two supermax contracts.
- Damian Lillard: Probably not quite an MVP calibre superstar, but not far off, but signing a supermax on a team that has battled to make the playoffs since left him in purgatory for a long time.
- Nikola Jokic: True MVP calibre superstar, signed on a contender, but that supermax also has contributed to expunging the role players that helped them win a championship and they have struggled to stay a contender, in part due to salary cap.
- Luka Doncic: True MVP calibre superstar, Dallas seem to be in a good place. Luka seems like the type of player this contract is meant for, a heliocentric superstar you can surround with role players.
- Bradley Beal: Probably the level of player and level of team most similar to De'Aaron Fox. A contract that destined awashington for mediocrity and made Beal a poison contract. Phoenix took a chance on him but are mediocre.
- Karl Anthony Towns: This year he is finally playing near the tier required, though Minnesota paid him to keep their franchise together and ultimately had to move him for Randle when the cost of the team blew out, in part because they traded for another supermax (Gobert) and knew they'd soon be paying for another (Edwards). It has worked out pretty well for him though on the type of team that can afford to live in the 2nd apron (Knicks)
- Devin Booker: Another player who is really not on the superstar tier, and now they team is mediocre after paying him, Beal and KD.
- Joel Embiid: Surely a soon to be regrettable purchase, even though he is(was) an MVP calibre superstar, though I am sure he will not survive the injuries and be one of the worst contracts.
- John Wall: Another desperation signing, not a true superstar and doomed Washington to mediocrity.
- Rudy Gobert: His supermax caused the split of Utah, and then the breakup of KAT and Edwards, and now Minnesota is not the contender they were a year ago.

I want De'Aaron Fox, but he is somewhere in that Booker, Beal, Wall, Gobert, Westbrook, Brown league, with a possibility of being in the Lillard or Towns tier that knocks on the door, but he is no Curry, Giannis, Jokic, Luka or Embiid. All the guys in that bottom tier is basically out of the league (Wall, Westbrook) or on a mediocre team in part because their supermax has handcuffed the team (Booker and Beal, Gobert) other than Brown, who got the contract in part because Boston knew they'd needed to for title aspirations, knowing full well it will cause problems down the line.

I wonder if Sacramento will choose to offer a contract that size when looking at what it causes, and whether Fox may have some hesitancy given what has happened to the guys on his tier that have signed while on mediocre teams. It is only a "players won't turn down that money" problem if he gets offered supermax, which I don't think is a given?

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[contract]

If this was true Jimmy would've gotten his extension with no conversation.

Herro having a good stretch has nothing to do with Jimmy’s extension lol.

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

Jimmy is our best player. Easily. Jimmy is better at 35 than Herro will ever be. That doesn't mean he should be extended because players get real old real fast once they hit their mid 30s.

[DayofMourning]

Herro having a good stretch has nothing to do with Jimmy’s extension lol.

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

Jimmy is our best player. Easily. Jimmy is better at 35 than Herro will ever be. That doesn't mean he should be extended because players get real old real fast once they hit their mid 30s.

You are the voice of reason. Cant pay 50 year old Jimmy the best contracts of his life when his ankle will spontaneously combust at any moment.

[twix2500]

Read on Twitter

Christopher joining the team tonight

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro having a good stretch has nothing to do with Jimmy’s extension lol.

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

Jimmy is our best player. Easily. Jimmy is better at 35 than Herro will ever be. That doesn't mean he should be extended because players get real old real fast once they hit their mid 30s.

I was wondering if the quotations around best player was him just putting what you said in quotations or if it was he believed he isn’t our best player anymore because Herro is having an efficient offensive start

[3ammy3uck3ts]

This game tonight is going to be hideous, I have a feeling

[VaDe255]

Herro having a good stretch has nothing to do with Jimmy’s extension lol.

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

Jimmy is our best player. Easily. Jimmy is better at 35 than Herro will ever be. That doesn't mean he should be extended because players get real old real fast once they hit their mid 30s.

Catch-all metrics show Herro as their best offensive player and Bam as their best defensive player. Herro’s more skilled offensively, while Butler relies on craftiness and playing the “old man game” and his defense is not what it used to be.

Bam and Herro have also been there every night, at this point he isn't their undisputed best player.

[Shewasfly]

Jimmy is absolutely still the best player on this team. I don't view it as very close either. Its a toss up on who is better between Tyler and Bam though. Which is very concerning for Bam considering their ages, contracts, and the faith the org has put behind each.

[wade44]

The main idea is that a fundamental change is needed in the organization if we are to ever compete for a championship again. There’s no Jimmy butler type player waiting out there for the Heat to exchange a Josh Richardson for. We’re not getting anyone to come to Miami and sacrifice tens of millions because buddy buddy. Elite organizations like the Spurs and Celtics did their time in tanking and its way past due that Miami does theirs

[VaDe255]

The main idea is that a fundamental change is needed in the organization if we are to ever compete for a championship again. There’s no Jimmy butler type player waiting out there for the Heat to exchange a Josh Richardson for. We’re not getting anyone to come to Miami and sacrifice tens of millions because buddy buddy. Elite organizations like the Spurs and Celtics did their time in tanking and its way past due that Miami does theirs

Their best shot is to pair Bam/Herro with a third high impact player that fits (they'll have 2 picks to trade in the offseason).

I don't know what else you are suggesting, because bottoming out and rebuilding takes time and luck, like 5 years at least before it bears any fruit.

The Spurs have been irrelevant and lucked into Wemby, still are in the mids of it and not close and they are a great organization which knows what it is doing.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Please stop guys

Herro is finally playing efficient basketball, let’s just try and enjoy it and not start with these absolutely absurd takes that he’s better than Jimmy now or even on Bams level. That is nuts, just let the guy hoop and let’s see if he can keep it up for a full season. Being a better scorer when Jimmy and Bam are literally better at everything else doesn’t make you a better player and this is the first season he’s been above average efficiency wise

[Shewasfly]

The main idea is that a fundamental change is needed in the organization if we are to ever compete for a championship again. There’s no Jimmy butler type player waiting out there for the Heat to exchange a Josh Richardson for. We’re not getting anyone to come to Miami and sacrifice tens of millions because buddy buddy. Elite organizations like the Spurs and Celtics did their time in tanking and its way past due that Miami does theirs

IF we can get that type of deal then yes. That's the logical way to go if Jimmy is as adamant about going as some are reporting. But I've yet to see an offer that loads us up with good picks. Maybe the Suns find a way to involve other teams and route some good picks our way, but if not, it makes no sense to just give Jimmy up for nothing. Might as well just get some help and try to make another run again this year, since so many teams are selling actual NBA level players for the cheap this season.

But if we wouldn't even pay Wade when it made zero sense not to, Jimmy damn sure shouldn't be getting his choice of destination when it would put us in a worse position for the future.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If we believed Jimmy could still carry the team in the reg season he would have his extension. Contract was still talking about Herro taking shots from our "best player"

Jimmy is our best player. Easily. Jimmy is better at 35 than Herro will ever be. That doesn't mean he should be extended because players get real old real fast once they hit their mid 30s.

Catch-all metrics show Herro as their best offensive player and Bam as their best defensive player. Herro’s more skilled offensively, while Butler relies on craftiness and playing the “old man game” and his defense is not what it used to be.

Bam and Herro have also been there every night, at this point he isn't their undisputed best player.

So these numbers state that Bam is our best player? Had he started the season scoring efficiently and was averaging over 20 you might be able to argue it but it’s still Jimmy. Bam won’t be until he’s got a good playmaker next to him and he’s given more freedom and not asked to defer to guys like Terry

[wade44]

The main idea is that a fundamental change is needed in the organization if we are to ever compete for a championship again. There’s no Jimmy butler type player waiting out there for the Heat to exchange a Josh Richardson for. We’re not getting anyone to come to Miami and sacrifice tens of millions because buddy buddy. Elite organizations like the Spurs and Celtics did their time in tanking and its way past due that Miami does theirs

Their best shot is to pair Bam/Herro with a third high impact player that fits (they'll have 2 picks to trade in the offseason).

I don't know what else you are suggesting, because bottoming out and rebuilding takes time and luck, like 5 years at least before it bears any fruit.

The Spurs have been irrelevant and lucked into Wemby, still are in the mids of it and not close and they are a great organization which knows what it is doing.

Can’t win if you don’t try. Without a superstar you’re begging for a treadmill team for the next many years. Again fox isn’t coming here and like someone said he’s not putting us over the top as a contender even if we did somehow get him

[wade44]

I’m not surprised that some Heat fans can’t grasp this simple concept though since we’ve been spoiled for a fair bit when it comes to free agents falling on our lap or choosing us. League has changed it’s really that simple

[Beenie]

Suspect a team like Orlando would outbid MIA for Fox

And they have an attractive enough of a nucleus for him to want to be there long term