The official fire Chris Finch thread

[Danimals]

I don’t want to fire Finch. I do want him to abandon his flow offense for something tailored to maximize Ant. With his ability to attack the basket and improved shooting, I don’t understand how we don’t spam Ant/Rudy pick and roll or dribble hand off. Then teach him how to make 2 or 3 reads off that action. If he’s ever going to become an MVP caliber player, he needs to be able to initiate, create, and finish offensive possessions. He needs the reps with the ball in his hands.

[winforlose]

I don’t want to fire Finch. I do want him to abandon his flow offense for something tailored to maximize Ant. With his ability to attack the basket and improved shooting, I don’t understand how we don’t spam Ant/Rudy pick and roll or dribble hand off. Then teach him how to make 2 or 3 reads off that action. If he’s ever going to become an MVP caliber player, he needs to be able to initiate, create, and finish offensive possessions. He needs the reps with the ball in his hands.

He also needs to learn how and when to get it out his hands. No pass possessions are the enemy of good basketball. The only time I would say they are acceptable is in transition, especially when it is uncontested sweet spot 3. Beyond that, move the ball, get guys moving and involved, and get some easier shots.

[TimberKat]

I don’t want to fire Finch. I do want him to abandon his flow offense for something tailored to maximize Ant. With his ability to attack the basket and improved shooting, I don’t understand how we don’t spam Ant/Rudy pick and roll or dribble hand off. Then teach him how to make 2 or 3 reads off that action. If he’s ever going to become an MVP caliber player, he needs to be able to initiate, create, and finish offensive possessions. He needs the reps with the ball in his hands.

They been doing the Ant/Rudy thing for 3 years. Ant still can't read and pass out of that effectively. Ant simply can't or don't want to create shots for others.

[m2002brian]

Is Chris our Mark Jackson, our Doug Collin’s


Get them to the precipice but not over the top?

[Klomp]

I don’t want to fire Finch. I do want him to abandon his flow offense for something tailored to maximize Ant. With his ability to attack the basket and improved shooting, I don’t understand how we don’t spam Ant/Rudy pick and roll or dribble hand off. Then teach him how to make 2 or 3 reads off that action. If he’s ever going to become an MVP caliber player, he needs to be able to initiate, create, and finish offensive possessions. He needs the reps with the ball in his hands.

They been doing the Ant/Rudy thing for 3 years. Ant still can't read and pass out of that effectively. Ant simply can't or don't want to create shots for others.

Is this a cautionary tale for those who want to rush Dillingham into the regular rotation permanently despite clear deficiencies?

Ant was anointed before he got time for proper skill development. You'd like to think he could learn on the fly, but he hasn't. Perhaps that would happen with Dillingham as well if we rush him into the lineup before he is ready.

[winforlose]

I don’t want to fire Finch. I do want him to abandon his flow offense for something tailored to maximize Ant. With his ability to attack the basket and improved shooting, I don’t understand how we don’t spam Ant/Rudy pick and roll or dribble hand off. Then teach him how to make 2 or 3 reads off that action. If he’s ever going to become an MVP caliber player, he needs to be able to initiate, create, and finish offensive possessions. He needs the reps with the ball in his hands.

They been doing the Ant/Rudy thing for 3 years. Ant still can't read and pass out of that effectively. Ant simply can't or don't want to create shots for others.

Is this a cautionary tale for those who want to rush Dillingham into the regular rotation permanently despite clear deficiencies?

Ant was anointed before he got time for proper skill development. You'd like to think he could learn on the fly, but he hasn't. Perhaps that would happen with Dillingham as well if we rush him into the lineup before he is ready.

This is the counter argument. I wanted Dilly in Iowa this year for this exact reason. His body is not developed yet at an NBA level, his defense is not NBA worthy yet, and he is playing in a defensive scheme he probably doesn’t understand yet. In Iowa in theory they run the same schemes to develop players familiarity with them. Unfortunately, poor roster construction, bad offseason moves, and a failure of DDV on ball has forced our hand. Unless you would prefer to sacrifice this year and give us literally only next year to be in the 2nd apron before the penalties become crushing?

[shrink]

One of my disappointments this year was the lack of talent Finch brought in through free agency. Last year he identified Kyle Anderson and he got new contracts done on Naz and NAW, so that was great. But I stopped and took a closer look.

Free Agents can be motivated by many different things, but in general, they want to make choices that help their (short) NBA career. After the draft, we were probably at the bottom of most free agents’ list. Good team, but they weren’t going to get minutes. MIN was basically bringing the top seven players on their team back, relying on their chemistry to get to the playoffs, so they would get heavy minutes. They wanted to find even more minutes for Naz, and NAW clearly deserved more. They were also very public about finding minutes for their 1st rounders, Dillingham and TJ Shannon.

If you’re a free agent, and MIN can only offer a vet min deal, do you want to go there and ride the bench? And MIN would be looking for good chemistry guys for the locker room. Luka Garza and Joe Ingles fit that mold.

The KAT trade created minutes, but it came well after free agency.

[Norseman79]

My frustration is simple, how the hell hasn't Minott played more to this point? He needs to simply make a depth chart and role with it instead of trying all of these ways to get guys playing time out of position. Guess what, TC gave you 3 shooting guards, 1 is Ant, then NAW and DD, plus you have Clark and Shannon....use competition to get playing time. Guess what, that might mean veterans get outplayed sometimes, well they shouldn't. This is what I dislike about coaches who always try to be "fluid" at the professional level. There are five positions on the floor, identify your system and build your roster accordingly. Ant is set, you had McDaniels at the 3, a big 3 with great defense and potential on offense, Kyle Anderson - smart, savy, big, defense and hustle was your backup, who is now?. You had KAT at the 4, a big PF with range and some defensive and rebounding ability, you replaced that with an undersized 4 that plays no defense, Reid was backup, still is. You have Gobert, defense, rebounding, lobs...last year Kat slid to the 5 when Rudy was out, we know who Kat is, now we force Naz, extremely undersized to have to play it....

Who the hell thought this would work? There will be stretches we shoot the hell out of the ball, but wait until we play big teams that will bully ball us and attack the paint.

Rant over

[winforlose]

The common thread in most losses this season is a disastrous quarter. Basketball is a 48 minute game and we usually only commit to 30-32 minutes. You can blame this player or that player for this, but end of the day, it is on the coach. It doesn’t matter if Finch knows what to do to win, the players don’t listen to him. What is a leader with no followers? Finch cannot do the job, and his lack of structured offense does not work when guys won’t move the ball. It is time to move on Finch.

[Loaf_of_bread]

Time for another player only kumbaya meeting?

If the players are "coached", and don't follow said coach... it's on the coach for not figuring out how to get through to the team.

Seat is warming up..

[KATKlownFeet]

This thread is way overdue. Finch sucks big time.

[winforlose]

Another game lost by starting and finishing with Randle. Well done Finch.

[RazorC]

I’d rather Tim Connolly get fired first. Give him a chance to trade Randle and make something if this season bit of nothing is done by the trade deadline, he has to go. The way things are looking, we peaked last year and are back on a downward slide with no draft picks to help alleviate the fall.

[winforlose]

I’d rather Tim Connolly get fired first. Give him a chance to trade Randle and make something if this season bit of nothing is done by the trade deadline, he has to go. The way things are looking, we peaked last year and are back on a downward slide with no draft picks to help alleviate the fall.

TC gave Finch bad cards, that doesn’t mean finch can play hearts while everyone else at the table is playing poker. Finch doesn’t run an offense. Finch’s defense is predicated on rotation and effort, and yet he rewards guys who give neither with end of game minutes. His rotations are set in stone with no exception for poor performance or poor fit. We went 7 minutes without scoring in the 2nd and he refused to put in any of the end of bench guys to inject energy. This man is in over his head and has clearly lost the locker room. It’s time to move on.

[shrink]

For the people that haven’t been Wolves fans forever, this reminds me of the Flip Saunders situation.

Flip was beloved by the organization, the owner, the players, and the fans. He was the best coach the team had ever had, he had helped the young superstar develop, and when the GM gave him some strong vets to compliment him, Flip even got the team to a WCF. Many sports outlets even predicted the Wolves would be NBA Champs the next year.

Then the locker room turned sour. Sam Cassell promised to talk about his next deal after the season, but reneged, and started complaining about not getting an extension. Sprewell was always a “feed his family” mercenary here. Garnett had loved being one of the three amigos rather than leader, and I think they rubbed off on him. On the court, the Wolves looked miserable, and were barely able to manage a .500 record despite those high pre-season predictions. Flip lost the locker room, and eventually he was fired mid-season.

To me, Flip and Finch had both earned the right to stay by all their previous success. That just isn’t how the NBA is. Every season, every half-season, matters.

A month ago, I would have said that here was no way Finch would be fired. A few more regular season wins last year, and he might have been voted 2024 Coach of the Year. However, a Finch firing (which I think would be wrong), no longer seems so far-fetched.

[wolves_89]

The thing that worries me is that the Wolves are coming off a 10 day span with both a 4 day stretch of no games and a 3 day stretch, yet the offense seems to have only gotten progressively worse.

[Baseline81]

For the people that haven’t been Wolves fans forever, this reminds me of the Flip Saunders situation.

Flip was beloved by the organization, the owner, the players, and the fans. He was the best coach the team had ever had, he had helped the young superstar develop, and when the GM gave him some strong vets to compliment him, Flip even got the team to a WCF. Many sports outlets even predicted the Wolves would be NBA Champs the next year.

Then the locker room turned sour. Sam Cassell promised to talk about his next deal after the season, but reneged, and started complaining about not getting an extension. Sprewell was always a “feed his family” mercenary here. Garnett had loved being one of the three amigos rather than leader, and I think they rubbed off on him. On the court, the Wolves looked miserable, and were barely able to manage a .500 record despite those high pre-season predictions. Flip lost the locker room, and eventually he was fired mid-season.

To me, Flip and Finch had both earned the right to stay by all their previous success. That just isn’t how the NBA is. Every season, every half-season, matters.

A month ago, I would have said that here was no way Finch would be fired. A few more regular season wins, and he might have been voted Coach of the Year. However, a Finch firing (which I think would be wrong), no longer seems so far-fetched.

Why?

What more does this team need to show before you realize they are underachieving based on the talent it has?

And yes, I believe Finch had input on the Towns trade. He has previously worked with Randle, and likely thought he could get a tune out of him.

[Loaf_of_bread]

For the people that haven’t been Wolves fans forever, this reminds me of the Flip Saunders situation.

Flip was beloved by the organization, the owner, the players, and the fans. He was the best coach the team had ever had, he had helped the young superstar develop, and when the GM gave him some strong vets to compliment him, Flip even got the team to a WCF. Many sports outlets even predicted the Wolves would be NBA Champs the next year.

Then the locker room turned sour. Sam Cassell promised to talk about his next deal after the season, but reneged, and started complaining about not getting an extension. Sprewell was always a “feed his family” mercenary here. Garnett had loved being one of the three amigos rather than leader, and I think they rubbed off on him. On the court, the Wolves looked miserable, and were barely able to manage a .500 record despite those high pre-season predictions. Flip lost the locker room, and eventually he was fired mid-season.

To me, Flip and Finch had both earned the right to stay by all their previous success. That just isn’t how the NBA is. Every season, every half-season, matters.

A month ago, I would have said that here was no way Finch would be fired. A few more regular season wins, and he might have been voted Coach of the Year. However, a Finch firing (which I think would be wrong), no longer seems so far-fetched.

Why?

What more does this team need to show before you realize they are underachieving based on the talent it has?

And yes, I believe Finch had input on the Towns trade. He has previously worked with Randle, and likely thought he could get a tune out of him.

You make an interesting point regarding Finch, Randle, and the trade. Who knows, but I would agree he most likely had some input.

[shrink]

For the people that haven’t been Wolves fans forever, this reminds me of the Flip Saunders situation.

Flip was beloved by the organization, the owner, the players, and the fans. He was the best coach the team had ever had, he had helped the young superstar develop, and when the GM gave him some strong vets to compliment him, Flip even got the team to a WCF. Many sports outlets even predicted the Wolves would be NBA Champs the next year.

Then the locker room turned sour. Sam Cassell promised to talk about his next deal after the season, but reneged, and started complaining about not getting an extension. Sprewell was always a “feed his family” mercenary here. Garnett had loved being one of the three amigos rather than leader, and I think they rubbed off on him. On the court, the Wolves looked miserable, and were barely able to manage a .500 record despite those high pre-season predictions. Flip lost the locker room, and eventually he was fired mid-season.

To me, Flip and Finch had both earned the right to stay by all their previous success. That just isn’t how the NBA is. Every season, every half-season, matters.

A month ago, I would have said that here was no way Finch would be fired. A few more regular season wins last year, and he might have been voted 2024 Coach of the Year. However, a Finch firing (which I think would be wrong), no longer seems so far-fetched.

Why?

What more does this team need to show before you realize they are underachieving based on the talent it has?.

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

[Loaf_of_bread]

For the people that haven’t been Wolves fans forever, this reminds me of the Flip Saunders situation.

Flip was beloved by the organization, the owner, the players, and the fans. He was the best coach the team had ever had, he had helped the young superstar develop, and when the GM gave him some strong vets to compliment him, Flip even got the team to a WCF. Many sports outlets even predicted the Wolves would be NBA Champs the next year.

Then the locker room turned sour. Sam Cassell promised to talk about his next deal after the season, but reneged, and started complaining about not getting an extension. Sprewell was always a “feed his family” mercenary here. Garnett had loved being one of the three amigos rather than leader, and I think they rubbed off on him. On the court, the Wolves looked miserable, and were barely able to manage a .500 record despite those high pre-season predictions. Flip lost the locker room, and eventually he was fired mid-season.

To me, Flip and Finch had both earned the right to stay by all their previous success. That just isn’t how the NBA is. Every season, every half-season, matters.

A month ago, I would have said that here was no way Finch would be fired. A few more regular season wins last year, and he might have been voted 2024 Coach of the Year. However, a Finch firing (which I think would be wrong), no longer seems so far-fetched.

Why?

What more does this team need to show before you realize they are underachieving based on the talent it has?.

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

Dwayne Casey was done dirty. The problem is this team has so much talent.. Finch may be better than most in terms of x's and o's.. but,

Managing minds is what separates a good coach vs a great coach. Finch has failed to manage ANT, as well as teach him to become a leader.