PG: KNICKS vs Pelicans: Cap'n Carried Us!!!

[Context]

If the Knicks lost without KAT and Brunson you would not downplay the loss saying that we were missing our top guys?

I think for us at this point- 28 games in with this new group (10 new players)we dont have our culture, chemistry and bench; fully
developed...we're getting there but at this point Brunson and Kat represent a large portion of our engine...

So in context- I dont think its a good comp Jay...

So if this group had a full year of experience together and a fan from an opposing fan base came to this board to brag about beating this team without KAT and Brunson with OG struggling to create his own offense you would be ok with that? I wouldn't. I would say we were missing important pieces and guys were forced into roles they shouldn't be in.

And if the fan responded "You guys have a culture, chemistry, depth and OG scored 40 against Denver" it still wouldn't change anything in my mind. Personally I rather see how both teams matchup at full strength to provide a better barometer of where both teams stand. The Knicks haven't peaked yet but it is easier for me to measure the progress the team is making when they are going up against the best versions of the best teams.

what youre saying is fair and I just looked at the 12 of 13 stretch where Orl only lost one game...didnt see any wins from some of the
elite teams in the league...on second thought -i need to be clear...
im not saying that orl's team isn't a stronger team with franz and paolo...I'm just saying that without those two guys that team will never be easy to beat- especially with this knick group -this group has elite potential but we are not there yet. Therefore, we can be proud of that win...

[Fat Kat]

Watch on YouTube

[Phish Tank]

**** I've been posting on and off for most of this season and clearly missed a lot. Crazy how we can go nuclear at any given point in a game.

[RHODEY]

The key to this is Brunson, KAT and MB need to all blend and keep improving together little by little. That’s the main task. Do basic stuff they all expect to do until it’s all simplified and instinct. And OG needs to come back from being a zero on O.

I hope its not the elbow.

[Besart19]

The key to this is Brunson, KAT and MB need to all blend and keep improving together little by little. That’s the main task. Do basic stuff they all expect to do until it’s all simplified and instinct. And OG needs to come back from being a zero on O.

I hope its not the elbow.

it is actually…

[NoDopeOnSundays]

That's great. If KAT can be the C in a strong defense it opens up a lot of options.

It does, the one thing I will say with how the Cavs play, they are the team I'd go with two C's against. That would neutralize some of their strengths, which is defensive rebounding which gets them out in transition. You can't run if the other team is pounding you on the glass and forcing you to gang rebound. They play at a fast pace, if you hammer them on the boards their pace slows and they'll be the same old team they were before.

It's nice to be able to match up with teams. But can't we just get buckets with our normal 5 which would stop em from running. I dont want to count on Mitch for sht. Im not a hater like some but he is DONE. I want to move him for a back up wing so we can hopefully get to the postseason healthy.

Cavs have the 7th best defense in the NBA, they're going to be difficult to score on, while I think we can impact their offense more than they can ours simply because they rely on pace. If they're getting scored on AND are giving up offensive rebounds they're cooked. I don't want to rely on Mitch, but this is one of the instances where he could be next to KAT and their physical frontcourt is smaller and less skilled.

[stuporman]

For December we're 4th in DRTG, we're 4th in Net rating for December as well and have jumped up to 13 DRTG for the season. Surprise surprise, the people who spent hundreds of posts saying we'd be a bottom 5 defensive team are nowhere to be found. KAT is down to 59% DFG in rim protection for the month, he's now down to 66% on the season as well and of course people have stopped harping on that aspect of his game

They stopped harping on it cause they stopped posting.

meLo get your @ss back in here. We got rim protection!

Team Villain went out sadder than sad, I always said true villains don't need to tell you they're villainous. The rim protection stuff was always going to shake out like this, KAT was bad at the start of the season while getting reacclimated to playing C, but there was nowhere to go but up from where he was at. The last 10 games he's at 59.4% DFG, and -3.6 diff, which means he's holding guys below their expected FG%. I don't know why you'd make that the backbone of your slander campaign of a player, especially when the numbers were so bad they could only improve.


And just for reference, IHart is at 60.6% DFG for the season.

People also conveniently leave out how bad the Knicks perimeter defense was at the beginning of the season, even MB and Hart were getting regularly blown by. So if KAT is having protect the rim with all the traffic in the paint he's getting alot of 'hair' fouls and even likely fouling out some games but definitely limiting court time.

Then those vanillas are complaining about that blaming him for it. Instead he's holding back some to protect his ability to play in the 4th quarter so statistically it looks like he's terrible when it's the whole team being terrible. When there are fewer opponents in the paint he can take some chances without being in constant foul trouble.

[stuporman]

Knicks look to be escaping the mid orbit

UH OH positivity from thebuzzardman equals .........

Spoiler:

That's why he always wears protection when posting

[stuporman]

Wait...wtf does 'inorganic passing' even mean? People making all sorts of isht up but ok, now I have a new knickname …Josh 'pesticide pass' Hart

[Clyde_Style]

The key to this is Brunson, KAT and MB need to all blend and keep improving together little by little. That’s the main task. Do basic stuff they all expect to do until it’s all simplified and instinct. And OG needs to come back from being a zero on O.

I hope its not the elbow.

He was a consistent contributor on offense up to his 40 point outburst. He then fell off the map immediately so he is clearly injured and the way his elbow is taped up he surely is dealing with inflammation and probably pain there.

The question probably comes down to whether the elbow will get better with rest or if this is a chronic injury requiring another surgery. If he plays 35 minutes a night, it night stay inflamed.

[Guano]

It does, the one thing I will say with how the Cavs play, they are the team I'd go with two C's against. That would neutralize some of their strengths, which is defensive rebounding which gets them out in transition. You can't run if the other team is pounding you on the glass and forcing you to gang rebound. They play at a fast pace, if you hammer them on the boards their pace slows and they'll be the same old team they were before.

It's nice to be able to match up with teams. But can't we just get buckets with our normal 5 which would stop em from running. I dont want to count on Mitch for sht. Im not a hater like some but he is DONE. I want to move him for a back up wing so we can hopefully get to the postseason healthy.

Cavs have the 7th best defense in the NBA, they're going to be difficult to score on, while I think we can impact their offense more than they can ours simply because they rely on pace. If they're getting scored on AND are giving up offensive rebounds they're cooked. I don't want to rely on Mitch, but this is one of the instances where he could be next to KAT and their physical frontcourt is smaller and less skilled.

All hypothetical cause counting on mitch is like counting on sham to collect that 30 day chip from his AA meeting.

[thebuzzardman]

The key to this is Brunson, KAT and MB need to all blend and keep improving together little by little. That’s the main task. Do basic stuff they all expect to do until it’s all simplified and instinct. And OG needs to come back from being a zero on O.

I hope its not the elbow.

He was a consistent contributor on offense up to his 40 point outburst. He then fell off the map immediately so he is clearly injured and the way his elbow is taped up he surely is dealing with inflammation and probably pain there.

The question probably comes down to whether the elbow will get better with rest or if this is a chronic injury requiring another surgery. If he plays 35 minutes a night, it night stay inflamed.

I don't think it's his elbow at all.

I've seen every game since the Denver game.

His shot is fine. It doesn't feel like his % is that off but I haven't checked stats.

I think the Knicks actively decided to feature Mikal more, plus OG got game planned for more after the run of offensive good games and it opened thing up for Mikal, Hart etc.

Knicks are taking what the defense offers

[Context]

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I think we can give their culture credit at this point- sometimes culture transcends the talent Jay...Curious to hear
your position after Orl win against Boston...they came from behind too...

Read on Twitter

[JayTWill]

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I think we can give their culture credit at this point- sometimes culture transcends the talent Jay...Curious to hear
your position after Orl win against Boston...they came from behind too...

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

Lol, I didn't watch that game. I have no idea what happened. Maybe you watched it and you can give me a bit more insight or maybe you are just posting a random tweet to prove a point. I don't know.

I'm not going to overreact to any one game win or loss. When the Knicks got beat down by the defending champion Celtics in game 1 I didn't think we were the worst team ever just as I don't think we are the greatest team ever because we just put up 139 points against a young rebuilding Raptors team with limited talent.

Going into the Magic game I thought it would be a good measuring stick for our offense since they are one of the top defensive teams in the league holding opponents to 106 points per 100 possessions while I believe we were averaging over 120 points per 100 possessions at the time. Their defense held the Knicks to 106 points per 100.

I didn't feel like it was a good measuring stick for our defense with them missing their top 2 scoring options. We have struggled to protect the rim at times and we have a high volume of 3 point shots made against us. Orlando had no one that can break down a defense and gets into the paint and they are the worst 3 point shooting team in the league. They couldn't exploit our weaknesses.

Once again if some opposing fan came here to brag about shutting down our offense with us missing KAT and Brunson and OG trying to create his own offense off the dribble I don't care if they point to the 40 point game OG had or tonight's 11 for 13 30+ point game when I know OG sucks at dribbling a basketball and shouldn't be a #1 option. So i'm also not going to stick out my chest after shutting down one of the worst offenses in the league missing their 2 tops scoring options while ignoring that their top 3 defense made our top 2 offense look like a bottom 2 offense.

Congratulations to Magic for that win tonight. Maybe the Magic's culture beat the Celtics' talent tonight or maybe they are just a tough matchup for the Celtics or maybe the Celtics missed Tatum tonight or maybe they just played down to the competition. I have no idea.

Either way I can't believe you bumped an old post game thread possibly creating confusion with the new post game thread just to win an argument I would have posted in the Knicks/Raptors post game thread saying that it wasn't a good measuring stick if I knew you wanted to continue this discussion.

[Context]

.

I think we can give their culture credit at this point- sometimes culture transcends the talent Jay...Curious to hear
your position after Orl win against Boston...they came from behind too...

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

Lol, I didn't watch that game. I have no idea what happened. Maybe you watched it and you can give me a bit more insight or maybe you are just posting a random tweet to prove a point. I don't know.

I'm not going to overreact to any one game win or loss. When the Knicks got beat down by the defending champion Celtics in game 1 I didn't think we were the worst team ever just as I don't think we are the greatest team ever because we just put up 139 points against a young rebuilding Raptors team with limited talent.

Going into the Magic game I thought it would be a good measuring stick for our offense since they are one of the top defensive teams in the league holding opponents to 106 points per 100 possessions while I believe we were averaging over 120 points per 100 possessions at the time. Their defense held the Knicks to 106 points per 100.

I didn't feel like it was a good measuring stick for our defense with them missing their top 2 scoring options. We have struggled to protect the rim at times and we have a high volume of 3 point shots made against us. Orlando had no one that can break down a defense and gets into the paint and they are the worst 3 point shooting team in the league. They couldn't exploit our weaknesses.

Once again if some opposing fan came here to brag about shutting down our offense with us missing KAT and Brunson and OG trying to create his own offense off the dribble I don't care if they point to the 40 point game OG had or tonight's 11 for 13 30+ point game when I know OG sucks at dribbling a basketball and shouldn't be a #1 option. So i'm also not going to stick out my chest after shutting down one of the worst offenses in the league missing their 2 tops scoring options while ignoring that their top 3 defense made our top 2 offense look like a bottom 2 offense.

Congratulations to Magic for that win tonight. Maybe the Magic's culture beat the Celtics' talent tonight or maybe they are just a tough matchup for the Celtics or maybe the Celtics missed Tatum tonight or maybe they just played down to the competition. I have no idea.

Either way I can't believe you bumped an old post game thread possibly creating confusion with the new post game thread just to win an argument I would have posted in the Knicks/Raptors post game thread saying that it wasn't a good measuring stick if I knew you wanted to continue this discussion.

It's not that serious Jay I just saw the game and thought of our exchange...I didnt know where else to post it so I just quoted where we last spoke...You made me think in our last exchange so I wanted to hear your thoughts...I just thought that since I reduced the credit I gave to Orlando because they didnt have a win against an elite team during that 12 of 13 stretch- it was only fair to acknowledge their win against the Celtics and credit their team since they didnt have their top 2 scorers...
Believe it or not Jay-these days I'm not really trying to win arguments...just trying to have fun and exchange quality thoughts in discussions

[JayTWill]

I think we can give their culture credit at this point- sometimes culture transcends the talent Jay...Curious to hear
your position after Orl win against Boston...they came from behind too...

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

Lol, I didn't watch that game. I have no idea what happened. Maybe you watched it and you can give me a bit more insight or maybe you are just posting a random tweet to prove a point. I don't know.

I'm not going to overreact to any one game win or loss. When the Knicks got beat down by the defending champion Celtics in game 1 I didn't think we were the worst team ever just as I don't think we are the greatest team ever because we just put up 139 points against a young rebuilding Raptors team with limited talent.

Going into the Magic game I thought it would be a good measuring stick for our offense since they are one of the top defensive teams in the league holding opponents to 106 points per 100 possessions while I believe we were averaging over 120 points per 100 possessions at the time. Their defense held the Knicks to 106 points per 100.

I didn't feel like it was a good measuring stick for our defense with them missing their top 2 scoring options. We have struggled to protect the rim at times and we have a high volume of 3 point shots made against us. Orlando had no one that can break down a defense and gets into the paint and they are the worst 3 point shooting team in the league. They couldn't exploit our weaknesses.

Once again if some opposing fan came here to brag about shutting down our offense with us missing KAT and Brunson and OG trying to create his own offense off the dribble I don't care if they point to the 40 point game OG had or tonight's 11 for 13 30+ point game when I know OG sucks at dribbling a basketball and shouldn't be a #1 option. So i'm also not going to stick out my chest after shutting down one of the worst offenses in the league missing their 2 tops scoring options while ignoring that their top 3 defense made our top 2 offense look like a bottom 2 offense.

Congratulations to Magic for that win tonight. Maybe the Magic's culture beat the Celtics' talent tonight or maybe they are just a tough matchup for the Celtics or maybe the Celtics missed Tatum tonight or maybe they just played down to the competition. I have no idea.

Either way I can't believe you bumped an old post game thread possibly creating confusion with the new post game thread just to win an argument I would have posted in the Knicks/Raptors post game thread saying that it wasn't a good measuring stick if I knew you wanted to continue this discussion.

It's not that serious Jay I just saw the game and thought of our exchange...I didnt know where else to post it so I just quoted where we last spoke...You made me think in our last exchange so I wanted to hear your thoughts...I just thought that since I reduced the credit I gave to Orlando because they didnt have a win against an elite team during that 12 of 13 stretch- it was only fair to acknowledge their win against the Celtics and credit their team since they didnt have their top 2 scorers...
Believe it or not Jay-these days I'm not really trying to win arguments...just trying to have fun and exchange quality thoughts in discussions

Spoiler:

It's all good man Honestly, I can't form too strong of an opinion on the Magic's win over the Celtics since I didn't watch the game. I know the Magic are a great defensive team with and without Paolo and Franz. Judging by the numbers they made both our offense and the Celtic's offense without Tatum struggle.

The biggest difference between the 2 games seems to be the Magic's percentages from the 3 point line, the free throw line, the amount of free throws they attempted and +10 possessions in PACE. For the year the Magic shoot 31% from 3, 79% from the free throw line and attempt a league leading 24.3 free throws per 100

Against us the Magic shot 30% from 3, 84.6% from the free throw line and attempted 13 free throws. Against the Celtics they shot 39.4% from 3, 100% from the free throw line and attempted 21 free throws. They shot well above their season averages from the line and 3 so it's hard for me to attribute that to their culture. It just seems like a rare great shooting night. If they shot their normal averages they would have lost once again but a win is a win.

Credit to the Knicks for keeping them off the free throw line and making them score from the field where they struggle. That can be the sign of a disciplined defense but it can also be the sign of a team that doesn't play with a lot of physicality. The Knicks have shown both this year. I see the improvements the Knicks are making with their effort and energy on the defensive end but I wonder about our physicality at times.

What I took from the Knicks win against the Magic was that I still have concerns about how the offense will perform against more physical and athletic defenses but our defense is more than good enough to stop their lower level offense without its top 2 options. I'm curious how the 2 teams matchup at full strength with us possibly adding Mitch and them adding Franz and Paolo and the added level of physicality they bring on the offensive end.

I'm not just looking at wins and losses. I'm trying to look ahead to how the team may perform in the playoffs against higher levels of competition where they will face a few teams that are more likely to be good on both ends of the court. Winning in the regular is cool but personally I enjoy watching the best against the best and seeing who comes out on top whether it is the regular season or the postseason.

A highly competitive loss against a great team is more rewarding and informative to me than beating up on the Raptors, Hornet, Wizards or shutting down a bad offense missing its top 2 offensive options but I did enjoy seeing how our offense matched up against their defense. I look forward to seeing how the Knicks evolve on each end of the court.