[Charania]: Caruso Extends In OKC [4/$81M]

[MoneyTalks41890]

I mean that’s probably mid level exception money in the last year, right?

[Residual-Heat]

fair contract imo

[Texas Chuck]

3 & D bench player averaging 27% from 3

Yeah, they're paying for his career average, but $20M per is a lot for a guy his size who's not even averaging 6 ppg in his current role.

I’m more concern about his probability of being healthy at 33-34 than his % , PPG .. but yea that 20m per year is a slight concern cause of his health.

Health maybe, but his scoring average couldn't be less relevant. I mean was Draymond not 1b on a dynasty while scoring single figures in starter's minutes.

Counting totals just mean nothing.

[165bows]

3 & D bench player averaging 27% from 3

And?

Elite, elite perimeter defender on the best defense (ever?) in the Association. Teams still guard him so the spacing is still there.

Harping on small sample percentages of low volume shooters whose value lies elsewhere is weird.

Considering he's a low volume scorer who only scores from three it's not irrelevant either.

[Texas Chuck]

3 & D bench player averaging 27% from 3

And?

Elite, elite perimeter defender on the best defense (ever?) in the Association. Teams still guard him so the spacing is still there.

Harping on small sample percentages of low volume shooters whose value lies elsewhere is weird.

Considering he's a low volume scorer who only scores from three it's not irrelevant either.

It becomes relevant if it continues to the point where teams stop defending him. I've watched a bunch of OKC this year and that's not the case right now.

We focus on short term percentages. Its easy. So we look at a guy like Davis Bertans having a 20 game bad shooting stretch and we say he is doing nothing for his team because unlike Caruso he brings very little defensively.

But we wouldn't be more wrong. Because his size, release, range beyond the line, and reputation as a shooter means teams absolutely freak out about giving him open shots even during a temporary bit of bad variance. His spacing benefits never go away.

Same here with Caruso right now. OKC just needs guys not to ignore him and have an extra paint defender. They have that.

[Andre Roberstan]

Do we have final confirmation if all that money is guaranteed? Both Dort and Hartenstein (the last two big money guys) have had options on the last year; I'd be surprised if Caruso doesn't too.

[Godaddycurse]

I mean that’s probably mid level exception money in the last year, right?

probably a bit more than midlevel.

12.8 this year, probably by last year will be close to 18-19 if i hazard a guess

[jayjaysee]

Think if either of the last two years are UNG, it’s a nice deal for OKC.

If not, OKC is the best positioned team in the league to dump a 40 million in 18-24 months. The next 2-3 playoff runs with his play are worth the asset it could cost to dump him if he does decline.

[165bows]

And?

Elite, elite perimeter defender on the best defense (ever?) in the Association. Teams still guard him so the spacing is still there.

Harping on small sample percentages of low volume shooters whose value lies elsewhere is weird.

Considering he's a low volume scorer who only scores from three it's not irrelevant either.

It becomes relevant if it continues to the point where teams stop defending him. I've watched a bunch of OKC this year and that's not the case right now.

We focus on short term percentages. Its easy. So we look at a guy like Davis Bertans having a 20 game bad shooting stretch and we say he is doing nothing for his team because unlike Caruso he brings very little defensively.

But we wouldn't be more wrong. Because his size, release, range beyond the line, and reputation as a shooter means teams absolutely freak out about giving him open shots even during a temporary bit of bad variance. His spacing benefits never go away.

Same here with Caruso right now. OKC just needs guys not to ignore him and have an extra paint defender. They have that.

Sure but it's actually ok if people bring up valid factual critiques like low minutes totals/bench category, low scoring volume and repertoire etc.

People know shooting is somewhat variable so those are in fact more consistent attributes over time.

Doesn't mean he's not a good player but those things come with the package.

[Texas Chuck]

Sure but it's actually ok if people bring up valid factual critiques like low minutes totals/bench category, low scoring volume and repertoire etc.

I mean you do understand me pointing out some disagreement is not me saying anyone can't bring up critiques, right? I don't have to either agree or I'm attempting to shut them down.

I know because I'm a mod some mistake my posts as poster as something they are not. When I am posting as a Mod I made that clear. When I am just disagreeing on the topic, I'm just a regular poster whose posts will be given consideration based on the quality or lack there of of my arguments.

But for low volume spacers, its much more impactful how teams guard them rather than the percentage. Go back to Bertans. Bertans shooting 30% helps spacing more than Delon Wright shooting 40% because teams let Wright shoot. And there isn't enough volume for the points scored difference to matter more than all the plays where the stars have more room to operate.

It's why I think his percentages right now doesn't really matter to any meaningful degree. Now if he keeps this up and gets Giddey'd in the playoffs it becomes a real problem and his minutes would almost assuredly go down in favor of other defenders teams respected. Just don't think we are there yet is all.

Its okay to disagree.

[drosestruts]

This doesn't really happen in a vacuum.

Thee's the value of Caruso in general and then his value if he were on specific teams.

For the title contending Thunder I think it's great to have Caruso locked in long-term.

You want Caruso to comfortable give you the full Caruso experience, and giving him a long-term deal allows him to never have to second guess diving for a loose ball or any of the other constant effort and hustle plays he makes.

[slick_watts]

The issue with me is the length, I feel like a 2/50 extension would have made more sense for OKC because you also are eventually going to want to pay a younger Cason.

2/50 would have not been possible due to cba rules. if the thunder didn't pay him this (which is the maximum years and $ they could have offered), they would have risked losing caruso in the offseason for nothing.

one of lu dort, cason wallace, or caruso himself will be traded in the next couple of years.

[jbk1234]

Yeah, they're paying for his career average, but $20M per is a lot for a guy his size who's not even averaging 6 ppg in his current role.

I’m more concern about his probability of being healthy at 33-34 than his % , PPG .. but yea that 20m per year is a slight concern cause of his health.

Health maybe, but his scoring average couldn't be less relevant. I mean was Draymond not 1b on a dynasty while scoring single figures in starter's minutes.

Counting totals just mean nothing.

It's relevant because he plays out of the backcourt and is undersized even for a good defender. Green was able to serve as a dynamic secondary facilitator due not only to his passing ability and handle, but where he was on the floor. Green as comp seems like a real stretch given their respective sizes and positions.

Moreover, Green was as effective as he was in that role because he was playing with two or three elite offensive players. Caruso's inability to initiate offense impacts who he can share the court with and that matters more as a guard. He can't share the court with Dort. If he's out there with Joe, both guards are undersized and one of them is not a good defender.

I also think people get a little carried away with Caruso's defensive capability. He's a good defender for his size, but his size is still very relevant. He can't guard a forward out of a switch without fouling. OKC gets away with a lot, but that's simply not going to be the case in every game or series. It's a good chunk of change to commit to someone whose efficacy is likely to series/matchup dependant.

[Texas Chuck]

I am not saying he is as good as Draymond. I am saying like Draymond his impact on games is basically unrelated to how many points he does or doesn't score. I could have used Maxi Kleber, a clearly worse player to make the same point.

And he's an elite defender. All the metrics say this and the OKC team defense says this. Maybe there is a matchup that bites him, but its a PNR league where teams force switches. Not but a handful of guards I'd rather have to have to combat all kinds of matchups than Caruso. And thats ignoring his off-ball defense where maybe I take zero guards ahead of him. His rotations and reads are just on point over and over.

[Andre Roberstan]

The issue with me is the length, I feel like a 2/50 extension would have made more sense for OKC because you also are eventually going to want to pay a younger Cason.

2/50 would have not been possible due to cba rules. if the thunder didn't pay him this (which is the maximum years and $ they could have offered), they would have risked losing caruso in the offseason for nothing.

one of lu dort, cason wallace, or caruso himself will be traded in the next couple of years.

My money is on Dort unless Caruso's knees turn to sponge cake.

[tacos]

With inflation everything gets more expensive if you guys remember a Hershey bar used to be a nickel 1968 Camaro was about 3 Grand new

What he lacks in shooting he makes up for with defense passing basketball IQ intensity and intangibles

They needed to keep him and this is a smart front office

[Devilanche]

Do we have final confirmation if all that money is guaranteed? Both Dort and Hartenstein (the last two big money guys) have had options on the last year; I'd be surprised if Caruso doesn't too.

Would be great if it’s a similar structure.

[Devilanche]

Yeah, they're paying for his career average, but $20M per is a lot for a guy his size who's not even averaging 6 ppg in his current role.

I’m more concern about his probability of being healthy at 33-34 than his % , PPG .. but yea that 20m per year is a slight concern cause of his health.

Health maybe, but his scoring average couldn't be less relevant. I mean was Draymond not 1b on a dynasty while scoring single figures in starter's minutes.

Counting totals just mean nothing.

Maybe I could have worded it better, my sole concern about the length (and money at the end of it) relates solely to his health.

Not that concerned about his PPG or % etc.