The official fire Chris Finch thread

[Klomp]

Finch has his problems. He certainly might not be the coach when this franchise breaks through and wins the title. I don't think I would pull the plug on him yet. But I do think where this current iteration has turned south is what was likely an over-pitching about how much he loves Julius or how confident that he could get Julius to play his best. This is probably what 98% of the team's problems boil down to, whether directly or indirectly. And after it worked so well with NAW I think Tim had no choice but to trust him.

Finch is very much a coach who is like Coach Boone on Remember The Titans. "It’s like Novacaine. Just give it time, it always works." At this point of the season, it might be his biggest downfall as a coach.

[BlacJacMac]

Why?

What more does this team need to show before you realize they are underachieving based on the talent it has?.

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

Dwayne Casey was done dirty. The problem is this team has so much talent.. Finch may be better than most in terms of x's and o's.. but,

Managing minds is what separates a good coach vs a great coach. Finch has failed to manage ANT, as well as teach him to become a leader.

KG wanted him gone.

[Loaf_of_bread]

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

Dwayne Casey was done dirty. The problem is this team has so much talent.. Finch may be better than most in terms of x's and o's.. but,

Managing minds is what separates a good coach vs a great coach. Finch has failed to manage ANT, as well as teach him to become a leader.

KG wanted him gone.

I did not know that.

Cassell was so good that year he was an All-Star. Clutch shot after clutch shot after clutch shot..

Was it jaric we got for Cassell?

[Baseline81]

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

Three years of over-achieving? I wouldn't call first round exits over-achieving, though to lose McDaniels and Reid a week or two before the playoffs is bad luck. Plus, any long-time fan of the Wolves has known Finch has benefited the most in terms of talent on the roster.

Never did I say to bring in a coach that could get through to Randle. I merely referenced my belief as to why Finch and Connelly went ahead with trading Towns to New York. I openly mocked Knicks fans on their board last year when they suggested Randle for Towns, as if it was a fair trade. Randle, to me, is a player you never want on your team, especially when you consider his salary. For as positive as I was last season, I've flipped the day that became a reality.

[shrink]

Three years of over-achieving makes me think that two months of under-achieving might have less to do with him than other factors.

And how few over-achieving replacement coaches has this franchise been able to draw? Flip, Dwayne Casey (people wanted him fired when the team didn’t even have a losing record too!) and Finch. I don’t see who you get that makes the situation better.

If you think the problem is Finch, not Randle, what coach will we be able to come here that will reach Randle? As you said, Randle likes Finch.

But if he has lost the locker room, I’m with you. He probably needs to go.

Three years of over-achieving? I wouldn't call first round exits over-achieving, though to lose McDaniels and Reid a week or two before the playoffs is bad luck. Plus, any long-time fan of the Wolves has known Finch has benefited the most in terms of talent on the roster.

Then you have much higher expectations of the Wolves talent these last three years than most. I guess he’s only beaten the spread two years, but here are Vegas over-unders on predicted wins.

2021-22 Predicted: 35.5. Actual: 46
2022-23 Predicted: 49.5. Actual: 42 (KAT misses 53 games, half season of DLo)
2023-24 Predicted: 44.5. Actual: 56

That’s still averaging 5 more wins a season than Vegas projects, based on our talent. Yes, we had two first round exits in the playoffs and one deep run, but from three teams that weren’t expected to make the playoffs at all (I assume after the KAT injury).

[BlacJacMac]

You do know Vegas predictions have nothing to do with actually predicting win totals, right?

They are 100% set to try to get equal betting on both sides. And with the Wolves being a dumpster fire for most of their existence, betters are not particularly bullish on them to do well.

[shangrila]

My issue with Finch, and at this point why I want him gone, is he's stubborn.

He's been here, what, 4 years? And every single year he's tried to implement this free flowing offence. And every single **** year it fails within the first month and we end up scrambling to implement some level of structure. Every year. Combine that with his refusal to play younger guys unless he has no other option and he just needs to go. There's no way that Jaylen Wells should be a positive contributor for the Grizzlies while Rob can't get off the bench for a team without anyone that can play PG aside from a 37 yr old Conley.

I'll also add that Ant's recent comments should be the death sentence. As much as he tried to put the blame on the players, which was true for defensive effort, you cannot tell me that the players not knowing what the team is offensively is on anyone other than the coaching staff. It's insane to me how mismanaged we are on that end of the floor.

[Loaf_of_bread]

Seat no longer warm.. it's hot

[KATKlownFeet]

Finch has his problems. He certainly might not be the coach when this franchise breaks through and wins the title. I don't think I would pull the plug on him yet. But I do think where this current iteration has turned south is what was likely an over-pitching about how much he loves Julius or how confident that he could get Julius to play his best. This is probably what 98% of the team's problems boil down to, whether directly or indirectly. And after it worked so well with NAW I think Tim had no choice but to trust him.

Finch is very much a coach who is like Coach Boone on Remember The Titans. "It’s like Novacaine. Just give it time, it always works." At this point of the season, it might be his biggest downfall as a coach.

"He certainly might not be the coach when this franchise breaks through and wins the title."

There is just so much wrong with that statement. Were you eating poo when you typed it or did you take a dump in your panties?

[Guest84]

Christmas Day blowout coming soon…

[Dewey]

Take two to tango …

Finch is half the problem and players are half.

I have no emotional attachment until the franchise discovers they need a legit PG … not an old guy, not a combo guy trying to play the role, not a 2nd or 3rd tier guy …. A legit PG that can lead. Right now all the other talk is just noise.

[shrink]

There is just so much wrong with that statement. Were you eating poo when you typed it or did you take a dump in your panties?

There is so much wrong with your statement.

It’s cool to disagree, but say why. Don’t behave like a fifth grader.

Santa might not be too good to you this year.

[winforlose]

One interesting thing Jim Pete keeps talking about is the value of the bench unit. I would love to see the numbers with Ant and those 3. I honestly think the reason their numbers are so good is because they don’t play with Ant and Randle and sometimes don’t play with Ant or Randle. Our entire scheme is broken on offense and the defensive scheme is built for different personnel. Rudy had a tough game, Mike had a tough game, and we have no backups for either of them.

[shrink]

One interesting thing Jim Pete keeps talking about is the value of the bench unit. I would love to see the numbers with Ant and those 3. I honestly think the reason their numbers are so good is because they don’t play with Ant and Randle and sometimes don’t play with Ant or Randle. Our entire scheme is broken on offense and the defensive scheme is built for different personnel. Rudy had a tough game, Mike had a tough game, and we have no backups for either of them.

You’re right. I listened to the Lock’d On podcast a few weeks ago, and they said the three-man unit of Naz-NAW- DDV was terrific. In fact, those three with Gobert was 100th percentile four-man unit, and like 93rd with Mike.

Ben Beeken’s conclusion (besides playing other second units) was that it was not just a matter of who they were, but also who they weren’t. Those three with Ant were just ok, and with Randle or Jaden at the time (slow start), they were much worse.

[Klomp]

Finch has his problems. He certainly might not be the coach when this franchise breaks through and wins the title. I don't think I would pull the plug on him yet. But I do think where this current iteration has turned south is what was likely an over-pitching about how much he loves Julius or how confident that he could get Julius to play his best. This is probably what 98% of the team's problems boil down to, whether directly or indirectly. And after it worked so well with NAW I think Tim had no choice but to trust him.

Finch is very much a coach who is like Coach Boone on Remember The Titans. "It’s like Novacaine. Just give it time, it always works." At this point of the season, it might be his biggest downfall as a coach.

"He certainly might not be the coach when this franchise breaks through and wins the title."

There is just so much wrong with that statement. Were you eating poo when you typed it or did you take a dump in your panties?

Care to share what is wrong with it?

[m2002brian]

Great video on why a lot of our issues are on Finch’s preferred style of “flow” offense, and why it’s fixable.

Finch needs to figure this out asap.

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/pxNvEAuXFMg?si=O7HAsSXqtu6puZO4

[LSWF]

Finch was a genius for three quarters of that Mavs match. I may be wrong, but I don't think firing Finch would improve the team this season. Maybe after the season I'll be calling for his head to roll.

[shangrila]

Great video on why a lot of our issues are on Finch’s preferred style of “flow” offense, and why it’s fixable.

Finch needs to figure this out asap.

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/pxNvEAuXFMg?si=O7HAsSXqtu6puZO4

And herein lies the issue.

Finch's preferred style has failed for, what, the 4th year in a row? At some point it needs to stop. An unstructured offence can work if you have someone like Jokic on the roster. But outside of that it's a fantasy.

I also despise the way he doesn't trust young players. Minott and Rob deserve minutes but they won't get them because Finch holds them to a higher standard than the vets. It's so frustrating watching someone like Jaylen Wells playing legitimate minutes for a playoff team while our guys flounder on the bench.

[winforlose]

Great video on why a lot of our issues are on Finch’s preferred style of “flow” offense, and why it’s fixable.

Finch needs to figure this out asap.

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/pxNvEAuXFMg?si=O7HAsSXqtu6puZO4

And herein lies the issue.

Finch's preferred style has failed for, what, the 4th year in a row? At some point it needs to stop. An unstructured offence can work if you have someone like Jokic on the roster. But outside of that it's a fantasy.

I also despise the way he doesn't trust young players. Minott and Rob deserve minutes but they won't get them because Finch holds them to a higher standard than the vets. It's so frustrating watching someone like Jaylen Wells playing legitimate minutes for a playoff team while our guys flounder on the bench.

It’s actually worse than you describe it. Finch knows the 4th quarter problems keep repeating in the exact same ways and actively allows them. It’s not like he is trying different variations, he is creating a defacto structure of hero and iso ball knowing it will lose games. The only reason to do that is fear that he cannot get the players to listen or knowledge they won’t. Either way Finch has lost the locker room.

[Araxen]

Great video on why a lot of our issues are on Finch’s preferred style of “flow” offense, and why it’s fixable.

Finch needs to figure this out asap.

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/pxNvEAuXFMg?si=O7HAsSXqtu6puZO4

And herein lies the issue.

Finch's preferred style has failed for, what, the 4th year in a row? At some point it needs to stop. An unstructured offence can work if you have someone like Jokic on the roster. But outside of that it's a fantasy.

I also despise the way he doesn't trust young players. Minott and Rob deserve minutes but they won't get them because Finch holds them to a higher standard than the vets. It's so frustrating watching someone like Jaylen Wells playing legitimate minutes for a playoff team while our guys flounder on the bench.

Personally, I think the reason why Finch doesn't want to run a structured offense is because he's lazy. He'd rather run his flow offense into the ground because it's less work for him. It's the only reason I can think of why he continues to be stubborn about it.