Game, Stop! - The Hornets Ownership Thread

[KembaWalker]

Can’t wait for us to get an edge next season over all the other teams out there that aren’t building a culture, incrementally improving every day

Definitely wouldn’t want to take any shortcuts either, we’re at year 20 of not making a single move anyone would call serious attempt at winning so it would be crazy to cut that build short now when we’re.. so close..

[SWedd523]

Can’t wait for us to get an edge next season over all the other teams out there that aren’t building a culture, incrementally improving every day

Definitely wouldn’t want to take any shortcuts either, we’re at year 20 of not making a single move anyone would call serious attempt at winning so it would be crazy to cut that build short now when we’re.. so close..

October 2025:

"Well... no we didn't sign anybody, and no we didn't make any trades except for moving our seconds for more future seconds... and no we don't expect the rookie to do much... but this year we mean business. We're gonna keep this culture movement going and NEXT year, we're gonna go for it"

[Walt Cronkite]

Moves the team have made in the last 20 years to increase wins immediately:
-Lottery pick for Jrich
-The many bad Larry Brown win now moves (Nazr, Gana, Jax, Diaw
-Al Jefferson
-Lance
-attempting to acquire Gordo
-acquiring Gordo
-Batum
-Dwight (?)

Will the new owners and front office continue to make destructive moves? Only the future-seeing negative Nellies really know. I would challenge that the franchise has failed for 20 years because there was no patience, so the team goals manically jumps between rebuild and playoffs season by season, which leads to desperation and a negative negotiation area and lands on the treadmill of late lottery nondifference makers and free agent overpays. To have a multiple season plan for building the organization and committing to it regardless of the whims of the majority owner has never happened.

[KembaWalker]

Moves the team have made in the last 20 years to increase wins immediately:
-Lottery pick for Jrich
-The many bad Larry Brown win now moves (Nazr, Gana, Jax, Diaw
-Al Jefferson
-Lance
-attempting to acquire Gordo
-acquiring Gordo
-Batum
-Dwight (?)

Will the new owners and front office continue to make destructive moves? Only the future-seeing negative Nellies really know. I would challenge that the franchise has failed for 20 years because there was no patience, so the team goals manically jumps between rebuild and playoffs season by season, which leads to desperation and a negative negotiation area and lands on the treadmill of late lottery nondifference makers and free agent overpays. To have a multiple season plan for building the organization and committing to it regardless of the whims of the majority owner has never happened.

the number 1 issue with all those moves is that none of those players were any good

[fatlever]

Ranking those moves from most defensible moves to the completely indefensible and utterly stupid
1. Signing Al Jefferson. Agreed this did end our tank, but to be fair we had stockpiled five lottery picks on the team at that time. And he was amazing for one season and got us to the playoffs. Unfortunately we ran into the Heat buzz saw. Had Al Jefferson been completely healthy in that series I think we could have won one or two games
2. Attempting to sign Gordon the first time. Definitely made sense at the time. Prior to his horrific entry. Much younger. Upside.
3. Trading for batum Even though we knew we'd have to either let him walk at the end of the season or resign him. The term was a solid player until injuries and whatever happened with his mental state due to his father and other outside factors
4. Signing Lance. Certainly Hayward would have been preferred, but Jordan panicked and went with the next best thing on the market. Who could have predicted Lance would have been as awful as he was. The deal we signed him to was actually pretty decent considering how well he played in the playoffs for Indiana. It was never going to be a good fit next to Kemba and the rest of the clogged toilet offense, but it's at least defensible.
5. dwight. It was never going to work. This was just Clifford being a stubborn old man demanding a shot blocking center. He put up good stats but it was completely irrelevant didn't move the needle one way or the other. Set off a chain of events that had pretty bad outcomes.
6. Trading a lottery picking giving up cap space for Jason Richardson. Adding Jason Richardson to that team in a vacuum was not a bad decision. He fit well with Gerald Wallace. His value was low coming off some unproductive years in Golden State. His three point shooting really helped the team. But it was never going to be worth what we gave up. I'm almost certain that when it's would have taken noah Had they stayed at number 8. We also would have had cap space to add someone that summer. taking Noah would allowed the team to have traded Okafor To upgrade a different position on the roster
100. Allowing Larry Brown to have any say so whatsoever in the roster. Every move he pressured the front office to make could be listed at the bottom of this list. One horrific decision after another to appease a rotten piece of a **** coach. Larry Brown can go **** himself.

[Walt Cronkite]

the number 1 issue with all those moves is that none of those players were any good

Most players on the trade block are there for a reason. You are a very frustrating poster to try and interact with and I think this response I quoted is particularly lazy and not at all conducive to actual discussion and exchange of ideas. I think you could be a better poster than this, but whatever. You wrote the team is "at year 20 of not making a single move anyone would call serious attempt at winning", but when given a list of "win-now" moves that contradict that statement, it's "well not those moves, those guys are bad." It's like analyzing a draft on the day of vs years later. None of those moves were made to lose games, the intention, and expectation as fats has showed was to win games. That it rarely worked at all is precisely the point. It is typically better to have competent people in an organization and grow it strategically over time instead of becoming desperate and hoping the thing someone else wants to get rid of is going to positively change the course. C'mon man.

fats, the Jrich trade is still one of the all-time Bobcats moments. Me and Paydro were HYPED! How little we knew what was coming. As i clicked season by season and saw the additional Brown frown acquisitions, ugh. Such painfully boring teams. I remember where I was when the news broke on Lance signing. He was supposed to be the missing piece to take the next step.

We are due for success, but can't keep making these mistakes. The 76ers were a joke with "The Process", but sticking to the plan worked out. Same for OKC (up to, like, just last season?). Why is the new ownership and front office doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past 20 years that they didn't have anything to do with?

[KembaWalker]

the number 1 issue with all those moves is that none of those players were any good

Most players on the trade block are there for a reason. You are a very frustrating poster to try and interact with and I think this response I quoted is particularly lazy and not at all conducive to actual discussion and exchange of ideas. I think you could be a better poster than this, but whatever. You wrote the team is "at year 20 of not making a single move anyone would call serious attempt at winning", but when given a list of "win-now" moves that contradict that statement, it's "well not those moves, those guys are bad." It's like analyzing a draft on the day of vs years later. None of those moves were made to lose games, the intention, and expectation as fats has showed was to win games. That it rarely worked at all is precisely the point. It is typically better to have competent people in an organization and grow it strategically over time instead of becoming desperate and hoping the thing someone else wants to get rid of is going to positively change the course. C'mon man.

fats, the Jrich trade is still one of the all-time Bobcats moments. Me and Paydro were HYPED! How little we knew what was coming. As i clicked season by season and saw the additional Brown frown acquisitions, ugh. Such painfully boring teams. I remember where I was when the news broke on Lance signing. He was supposed to be the missing piece to take the next step.

We are due for success, but can't keep making these mistakes. The 76ers were a joke with "The Process", but sticking to the plan worked out. Same for OKC (up to, like, just last season?). Why is the new ownership and front office doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past 20 years that they didn't have anything to do with?

A serious attempt at winning is not a trade for Jason Richardson or Stephen Jackson or Al Jefferson. No other fanbase in the league would attempt to point to trash acquisitions like this as a real attempt win now. Gordon Hayward, Lance, and Batum were literal role players. Actual all stars change teams all the time. 11 guys from the all star game last year weren’t on their original. They just never change teams to Charlotte.

I’m sorry you find me frustrating to deal with but the fact is that this team has been wholly unserious for 20 years and i don’t mind calling it out. Dwight Howard, really?

[fatlever]

the number 1 issue with all those moves is that none of those players were any good

fats, the Jrich trade is still one of the all-time Bobcats moments. Me and Paydro were HYPED! How little we knew what was coming. As i clicked season by season and saw the additional Brown frown acquisitions, ugh. Such painfully boring teams. I remember where I was when the news broke on Lance signing. He was supposed to be the missing piece to take the next step.
?

I was absolutely furious with that Jason Richardson trade at the time. I'm pretty sure Slam and I had a conversation soon after where we both went off on that trade. I specifically also remember me inventing at a get together with some of my friends who were at casual bobcat fans. Excited about the Trade because they had at least heard of Jason Richardson. And I think I went on like a 20 minute tirade about how dumb it was to give up a lottery pick and cap space, And I was really excited about the idea of having Noah on the team. I'm about ninety five percent sure we would have taken him over wright. After the failure of Shawn may and the mediocre play of Felton I would have hoped the Hornets would have been scared away from drafting another UNC product at that moment.

[fatlever]

I will at least admit that some of my anger towards that trade was some selfishness because I knew what it meant for ammo and Walter. Obviously I was a pretty big ammo apologist and thought he would really take a leap that year. And to be fair he did have a good training camp before ripping his knee apart. And I loved Walter one of my all time favorite hornets. And I knew Jason Richardson arriving was probably going to be the death of Walter and it was. Sam Vincent clearly didn't value Walter and dumped him in that deal for Mohammed.

[Walt Cronkite]

A serious attempt at winning is not a trade for Jason Richardson or Stephen Jackson or Al Jefferson. No other fanbase in the league would attempt to point to trash acquisitions like this as a real attempt win now. Gordon Hayward, Lance, and Batum were literal role players. Actual all stars change teams all the time. 11 guys from the all star game last year weren’t on their original. They just never change teams to Charlotte.

I’m sorry you find me frustrating to deal with but the fact is that this team has been wholly unserious for 20 years and i don’t mind calling it out. Dwight Howard, really?

You are blessed with hindsight to evaluate these moves and players. Lance was coming off what would become his best season of his career, I believe Gordon had just been an all-star when the team tried to sign him, Batum must’ve been good but most of my memories of him are disappointing so I don’t really recall. Dwight was a reach for the list but something I remember exciting folks at the time.

There are only so many top tier players and I think the lack of free agent success probably means Charlotte isn’t a competitive destination for those top guys. So no, the team has never traded for an mvp level player, but I suspect Hayward, Jefferson and probably Batum were expected to be all-starish level (Al was 3rd team all nba in Charlotte btw). Certainly Larry Brown thought each guy he brought in was better than whoever else he brought in that he soured on. Whoever we could currently trade for (Lonzo, Ingram, Zion hypothetically, you tell me idk) would likely just end up not “any good”, so you will be able to reflect in a decade ago that the team never tried to make a serious attempt at winning, which is a win of sorts.

Remember Charlotte’s last All-Star? How was he acquired?

[Walt Cronkite]

I will at least admit that some of my anger towards that trade was some selfishness because I knew what it meant for ammo and Walter. Obviously I was a pretty big ammo apologist and thought he would really take a leap that year. And to be fair he did have a good training camp before ripping his knee apart. And I loved Walter one of my all time favorite hornets. And I knew Jason Richardson arriving was probably going to be the death of Walter and it was. Sam Vincent clearly didn't value Walter and dumped him in that deal for Mohammed.

That’s funny how different the reactions to the Jrich trade were. We were having a draft party and it definitely went to a different level with the excitement of a known thing and not another draft day disappointment.

Herrmann was such an easy to cheer for player. Those Bernie teams lacked talent but played hard. Pretty much only remember Sam Vincent when the Fine Ham Biscuit meme pops into my head now, thankfully.

[KembaWalker]

A serious attempt at winning is not a trade for Jason Richardson or Stephen Jackson or Al Jefferson. No other fanbase in the league would attempt to point to trash acquisitions like this as a real attempt win now. Gordon Hayward, Lance, and Batum were literal role players. Actual all stars change teams all the time. 11 guys from the all star game last year weren’t on their original. They just never change teams to Charlotte.

I’m sorry you find me frustrating to deal with but the fact is that this team has been wholly unserious for 20 years and i don’t mind calling it out. Dwight Howard, really?

You are blessed with hindsight to evaluate these moves and players. Lance was coming off what would become his best season of his career, I believe Gordon had just been an all-star when the team tried to sign him, Batum must’ve been good but most of my memories of him are disappointing so I don’t really recall. Dwight was a reach for the list but something I remember exciting folks at the time.

There are only so many top tier players and I think the lack of free agent success probably means Charlotte isn’t a competitive destination for those top guys. So no, the team has never traded for an mvp level player, but I suspect Hayward, Jefferson and probably Batum were expected to be all-starish level (Al was 3rd team all nba in Charlotte btw). Certainly Larry Brown thought each guy he brought in was better than whoever else he brought in that he soured on. Whoever we could currently trade for (Lonzo, Ingram, Zion hypothetically, you tell me idk) would likely just end up not “any good”, so you will be able to reflect in a decade ago that the team never tried to make a serious attempt at winning, which is a win of sorts.

Remember Charlotte’s last All-Star? How was he acquired?

JRich, Sjax, Batum were 16 ppg role players

Lance I actually liked as a gamble but that’s what he was, not even a win now move. He was a gamble that flopped

Al Jefferson was a 17.8 ppg Utah scorer that again was overused in our mediocre outdated offense

Hayward used us blatantly for leverage the first time and a retirement fund the second time.

We got our last all star in the draft? Okay great..we have to get lucky to draft all stars. I agree, because we have never in 20 years shown that we can get another one. You don’t have to lure a star in free agency, you can actually trade for them. It happens all the time to other teams just not us

[Walt Cronkite]

We got our last all star in the draft? Okay great..we have to get lucky to draft all stars. I agree, because we have never in 20 years shown that we can get another one. You don’t have to lure a star in free agency, you can actually trade for them. It happens all the time to other teams just not us

In a trade for guys like Kyle Lowry he never plays a game for the Hornets, but a star they trade for is going to work out, got it.

We have a star, just have to develop the supporting cast. If they can make a move via trade, great. A star though? Don’t they get traded to contenders to chase rings? Could I get an example of a star that was traded to a team on the bottom like the Hornets? How loose are we using “star”?

[Diop]

the S Jax trade was a good one. Only cost raja bell and Vlad Rad.

S Jax and Crash were a very tough wing combination to score against.

[Walt Cronkite]

The sustained high point for the franchise!

[Diop]

even the dumb general board liked the Lance signing, it didnt even seem a gamble. he looked like an aggressive poa defender and secondary ball handler.

how that guy only seemed to be able to play ok with Indiana is truly bizarre

[Robot Rock]

I don't see how in the hell signing Al Jefferson was a stupid idea in 2013, nor do I think Al Jefferson wasn't any good. He made All-NBA that year.

[KembaWalker]

even the dumb general board liked the Lance signing, it didnt even seem a gamble. he looked like an aggressive poa defender and secondary ball handler.

how that guy only seemed to be able to play ok with Indiana is truly bizarre

I mean it was a gamble that he could take what he did in Indy and expand it with a bigger responsibility and role in the offense. Nobody expected he would actually get worse

[Hornet Mania]

The second expansion team has been hamstrung by bad lotto luck and drafting more than anything else. Never had 1st pick in 20 years of mostly futility.

The first expansion team got LJ and Zo back-to-back in 91/92 with the 1st/2nd picks. Even when they ended up feuding and destroying that promising squad the franchise was able to ship them out for other very good players like Glen Rice and Anthony Mason. Later on when the team wouldn't pay Rice he got traded for Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell. When the team wouldn't pay Eddie Jones he and Mason got traded for Jamal Mashburn and PJ Brown.

All that history is just to illustrate that once a franchise gets the right spark it can keep the fire going through smart trades. The second expansion team has never even gotten the spark started, their talent base has never come close to the 92 Hornets which really laid the foundation for the previous expansion team's decade of success.

I think we can trade for stars and impact players, but we have to give something to get something. Right now outside of Melo/Miller/Mark we have no highly desirable players to dangle. The talent base has to be enriched. Next summer will be massive. If the new front office makes a smart lotto pick and signs 2-3 quality vets in free agency this team will finally have the foundation it needs to succeed. If they blow the pick and throw money at replacement level players the franchise will slide right back down the hill again.

[JDR720]

We missed out on Dwight (Okafor) and Davis (MKG). If either of those went our way, things would've been a lot better. Davis and Kemba would've been amazing together.

We also passed on Mitchell (Kaminsky?) despite Clifford supposedly liking him a lot. Also Devin Booker who we supposedly liked too.

Our issues beyond MJ are 95% either draft luck, or passing on would-be stars who we supposedly liked pre-draft.