Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[pcbothwel]

Seems we are stuck with this bum forever

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Why?
Guys... he has been out of shape and barely played. Of course the market is cool on Kuz right now. Whatever.
We can hope he puts together a great January leading into the deadline, but even if he doesnt, we are still looking at a 2/40M contract starting next year. It wont take much of a hot streak to make that contract palatable.
Wait until Ingram, Randle, etc sign for 2X as much, for 2X as long. Kuz at 2/40M will be very interesting when Ingram is making 4/160M

[Benjammin]

Yeah, it won't take much to get Kuzma back to his true value. The problem is for smart teams they realize that's not worth that much.

[TGW]

They completely bungled this Kuzma situation. Embarassing.

[pcbothwel]

They completely bungled this Kuzma situation. Embarassing.

Im so lost on this POV.
I understand thinking that we MAY have had a decent opportunity at the deadline last year and wishing we moved him then, but to say you are embarrassed by how bad we 'bungled' this situation seems a bit over the top.
Look at all the guys in Kuzma's price/age range. Rozier, Tobias Harris, Jonathan Isaac, Jaden McDaniels, Bruce Brown, KCP, Dillon Brooks, etc. Are any of these really better than what Kuz has shown over the last 3 years?

Look at the contracts & production for guys like Embiid, Beal, Jamal Murray, Kawhi, FVV, OG, PG13, etc. and compare them to that of Kuz over the last 2-3 years. I have no reason to believe that Kuz cannot replicate is production over the last 3 years, and that on guy on his current contract (2/40M) is a positive asset...and will be moved accordingly. In time.

[TGW]

They completely bungled this Kuzma situation. Embarassing.

Im so lost on this POV.
I understand thinking that we MAY have had a decent opportunity at the deadline last year and wishing we moved him then, but to say you are embarrassed by how bad we 'bungled' this situation seems a bit over the top.
Look at all the guys in Kuzma's price/age range. Rozier, Tobias Harris, Jonathan Isaac, Jaden McDaniels, Bruce Brown, KCP, Dillon Brooks, etc. Are any of these really better than what Kuz has shown over the last 3 years?

Look at the contracts & production for guys like Embiid, Beal, Jamal Murray, Kawhi, FVV, OG, PG13, etc. and compare them to that of Kuz over the last 2-3 years. I have no reason to believe that Kuz cannot replicate is production over the last 3 years, and that on guy on his current contract (2/40M) is a positive asset...and will be moved accordingly. In time.

When was the last time a Wizards player (not anyone from any other team, just the Wizards) suddenly played better and improved his trade value? This is the same franchise that got a bunch of low second rounders for Beal and absolutely nothing for Porzingis. Get real.

[pcbothwel]

They completely bungled this Kuzma situation. Embarassing.

Im so lost on this POV.
I understand thinking that we MAY have had a decent opportunity at the deadline last year and wishing we moved him then, but to say you are embarrassed by how bad we 'bungled' this situation seems a bit over the top.
Look at all the guys in Kuzma's price/age range. Rozier, Tobias Harris, Jonathan Isaac, Jaden McDaniels, Bruce Brown, KCP, Dillon Brooks, etc. Are any of these really better than what Kuz has shown over the last 3 years?

Look at the contracts & production for guys like Embiid, Beal, Jamal Murray, Kawhi, FVV, OG, PG13, etc. and compare them to that of Kuz over the last 2-3 years. I have no reason to believe that Kuz cannot replicate is production over the last 3 years, and that on guy on his current contract (2/40M) is a positive asset...and will be moved accordingly. In time.

When was the last time a Wizards player (not anyone from any other team, just the Wizards) suddenly played better and improved his trade value? This is the same franchise that got a bunch of low second rounders for Beal and absolutely nothing for Porzingis. Get real.

Why do you keep saying this? Kuz has played 200 games for us over the last 3 years and his production has been remarkably consistent. We dont need him to be any better than he has been to net us assets in a trade.

I dont see the relevance of Beal and KP. I have my issues with both those situations, but Beal had a NTC and was considered the worst contract in the league. I would have simply kept CP3 vs trading him to GSW, but we still won that trade by a large margin.
KP was a FA and we were in no position to drive a hard bargain.

[payitforward]

...This is the same franchise that got a bunch of low second rounders for Beal...

Look... rhetoric at this level, esp. when repeated & repeated, is neither useful nor pleasant. You're obviously a smart & accomplished person; I don't know why this kind of attitudinizing appeals to you.

We are in a different world from the EG era & the Tommy Sheppard years that followed. Whether you like what they've done or not, it's obvious that there is zero overlap in sentiment, analysis or strategy between those years and the all new FO that stepped in 18 months & 2 weeks ago with the announced intention to do whatever it takes for however long is needed in order to develop a title-contending team.

IOW, it's not "the same franchise" -- not at all. Surely that much is obvious. & even though we suck right now (which no one would wish to deny) your particular criticisms don't seem particularly a propos.

E.g. the Beal trade. The truth is that for Beal -- who had an immensely over-paid, long-term contract with a no-trade clause, issued by a different front office -- we got, in effect, Poole, PBJ, Rollins, a ton of picks, & some pick swaps. No one, & I do mean no one at all, could have hoped to get more for Beal than we did.

...and absolutely nothing for Porzingis....

There was nothing we could have gotten for Porzingis once he'd told us he was going to opt out of his extension -- making him an unrestricted FA. Isn't that kind of obvious?

Now, if I'm wrong, if there was a possible scenario in which we could have gotten something that you think would have been close to a fair deal for Porzingis, please describe it. Honestly, i sure don't see it.

As to Kuzma, I'd say we are almost in agreement -- all of us here -- that it would have been wise to move him to Dallas last year. & I've certainly been one of Kuz's most constant critics, so for sure I would have been happy to see that trade.

That said, there was no particular reason to think we'd get less for him by waiting, & there was at least some reason to think we just might get more. All the same, I'm a "bird in the hand" guy on this subject.

[dckingsfan]

Seems we are stuck with this bum forever

Why?
Guys... he has been out of shape and barely played. Of course the market is cool on Kuz right now. Whatever. We can hope he puts together a great January leading into the deadline, but even if he doesnt, we are still looking at a 2/40M contract starting next year. It wont take much of a hot streak to make that contract palatable. Wait until Ingram, Randle, etc sign for 2X as much, for 2X as long. Kuz at 2/40M will be very interesting when Ingram is making 4/160M

For this trade deadline when a team is looking to "upgrade" their roster in a big way, I think there are better options out there.

For next year, if he can just come in shape and give a damn - it's possible. But again, there are other assets that will be coming on the market then too. I think you can't look at it in a bubble.

I guess I look at it differently. Not playing has been a boon to the younger guys. And I see that trend continuing even when he returns. And his contract isn't that big that it doesn't make much of a difference to this team now. If Poopoo and his contract are with the Wizards until the end and expire - meh. Not that big a deal. That is around when they could become competitive.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Seems we are stuck with this bum forever

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

No, we're not.

The Wizards should take an L by lowering their returns value while honoring Kuzma with a favorable deal.

Take a second round pick.

Send him AMYWHERE he wants, without hurting the Wizards' financial future.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, it won't take much to get Kuzma back to his true value. The problem is for smart teams they realize that's not worth that much.

I would like to see him back to his original value and essentially given away.

Pay it forward. (That sounds familiar!)

[dckingsfan]

Seems we are stuck with this bum forever

Read on Twitter

No, we're not.

The Wizards should take an L by lowering their returns value while honoring Kuzma with a favorable deal.

Take a second round pick.

Send him AMYWHERE he wants, without hurting the Wizards' financial future.

I think the problem is that there are a limited number of options to deal him and not take back a worse contract AND get any draft assets, no?

[WallToWall]

The smart thing to do would be to hold on to Kuzma till he decides that he wants to improve his trade value. Why are we in a rush to trade him? We are under no deadline, other than some self imposed one that we created in our minds. True, we could use another 2025 mid to high 1st rnd pick, and we pinned out hopes on Kuz getting us that pick. However, no team right now will give us that! Let Kuz get healthy again, and play. At worst, his value will remain the same as it is now. That value could improve if he decides to play up to his caliber. We can always trade him in the off season.

[9 and 20]

Might as well keep him if we're only getting 2nd rounders. Hopefully Brogdon, Val, Kispert can net us a first rounder this year.

[payitforward]

Might as well keep him if we're only getting 2nd rounders. ...

Why?

[payitforward]

Might as well keep him if we're only getting 2nd rounders. ...

Why?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Might as well keep him if we're only getting 2nd rounders. ...

Why?

I agree. Time waits for no one.

Kuzma can become useful on another team. Rui is a starter on the Lakers. Dinwiddie is a key sub on the Mavericks, Kristaps Porzingis is doing his thing aa a Celtic.

I could see Kuzma fitting in on the Warriors.

[9 and 20]

Nah. Mostly selfishly, it would eat at me constantly that we traded Gaff, who I actually enjoyed watching play, instead of Kuz because Kuz himself wanted to stay. Then we get 2nd round picks for him basically 5 minutes later?

Would definitely become an entry in soWiz lore, maybe a minor one but still.

He's not a franchise crushing contract like Beal was, so let him stay for another half year or more, get his act together or not and rot on the bench. Not in a huge rush to get more 2nd round picks though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Last night, an announcer praised Gafford.

He said DG is physically strong and that other centers around the league don't like facing Gafford.

[payitforward]

Daniel Gafford is a terrific player.
Getting him for next to nothing was one of Shepp's best moves.

OTOH, trading him was also fine, as we got a R1 pick (used on Kyshaun George) & Richaun Holmes, who might be tradable for a modest return -- a R2 pick -- at the deadline).

As we all know, R2 picks are basically useless. 2019 actually was a weak R2: only Nic Claxton, Cody Martin, Gaff, Bol Bol, TH-T, Roby, Terance Mann, & Jalen McDaniels have turned into productive players. Aside from Caleb Martin & Garrison Mathews, that is, who went undrafted. Usually, R2 produces more than that -- check out 2018, for example.

[dckingsfan]

Last night, an announcer praised Gafford.

He said DG is physically strong and that other centers around the league don't like facing Gafford.

Yeah, I like the trade from the Mav's point of view especially given that they have both Lively & Gafford. From our point of view - it didn't really matter, take what you can get. If you look out to 2029 or so - you don't hold onto anyone really.