Fixing the Kings (or trying)

[LightTheBeam]

Step 1: Fire Mike Brown.

Step 2: Trade with Clippers
Mann + Tucker for Demar

Why for Clippers? Bring Demar home. They have tons of shooting, and could use a guy like this who can get a bucket in tight spots.

Step 3: Trade with Hawks
Huerter, Len, lowering protections to top 2 protected for Deandre Hunter

Why for Hawks? Seems like the 3 starting wings are in place already. The Kings are fading fast and Hawks risking not getting the pick again. This guarantees the pick for a guy who has been often injured. Save a few bucks, and get a familiar bench scorer.

Final Kings roster

Sabonis - Isaac Jones
Hunter - Lyles
Keegan - Colby Jones
Keon - Mann
Fox - Monk

Probably won't make a huge difference. But team focus shifts towards being fast pace, more 3s, and hopefully slightly better defense.

[Godaddycurse]

i dont think that DeAndre Hunter is worth giving up a lotto pick for

[LightTheBeam]

i dont think that DeAndre Hunter is worth giving up a lotto pick for

I tend to agree. Factoring in the cost of them also eating Huerter.

I'm trying to see what some other solutions here are? Nets seem to want 2 1sts for Cam, a 1st for DFS. Not sure if 2nds gets us Collins. Kuzma/Grant shouldn't even be in the question. Running out of ideas here and Kings badly need a forward.

[One_and_Done]

Not sure the Clippers are dumb enough to take DeRozan. Even if they are, the bigger problem is Fox wanting out. If that's the case, the solution is a rebuild.

[LightTheBeam]

Not sure the Clippers are dumb enough to take DeRozan. Even if they are, the bigger problem is Fox wanting out. If that's the case, the solution is a rebuild.

The report was Fox hasn't asked out yet. But that he wants changes made. The logical changes seem to be clearing some of the guard glut, and bringing in a real coach.

Now if things don't happen quickly, I won't blame him for asking out. But it seems like we should try to balance the squad first.

[One_and_Done]

Not sure the Clippers are dumb enough to take DeRozan. Even if they are, the bigger problem is Fox wanting out. If that's the case, the solution is a rebuild.

The report was Fox hasn't asked out yet. But that he wants changes made. The logical changes seem to be clearing some of the guard glut, and bringing in a real coach.

Now if things don't happen quickly, I won't blame him for asking out. But it seems like we should try to balance the squad first.

I mean, I'm not sure small changes like this will move the needle enough to matter. The West is just too deep and competitive for a team starring Sabonis and Fox to do much.

[LightTheBeam]

Not sure the Clippers are dumb enough to take DeRozan. Even if they are, the bigger problem is Fox wanting out. If that's the case, the solution is a rebuild.

The report was Fox hasn't asked out yet. But that he wants changes made. The logical changes seem to be clearing some of the guard glut, and bringing in a real coach.

Now if things don't happen quickly, I won't blame him for asking out. But it seems like we should try to balance the squad first.

I mean, I'm not sure small changes like this will move the needle enough to matter. The West is just too deep and competitive for a team starring Sabonis and Fox to do much.

That's a fair view, not one that I share.

Thread on the GB shows impact, Sabonis in the top 10, Fox right around 30. Those 2 are arguably better than any player on the Rockets who are currently sitting in 3rd. The reality is more so that Fox-Sabonis are doing their job, but the rest of the team has let them down night after night. We have lost 10+ games within 2 possessions, many of those games we blew leads at the end of the game. We very easily could be sitting in 4th-5th place.

Sadly we are seeing on most nights we run rotations where it's 4 shooting guards + Sabonis. Or Fox + 2 guards + 2 mediocre forwards.

I don't think any team can expect to compete when they have 1 playable forward on the roster, and he himself is struggling.

[One_and_Done]

The report was Fox hasn't asked out yet. But that he wants changes made. The logical changes seem to be clearing some of the guard glut, and bringing in a real coach.

Now if things don't happen quickly, I won't blame him for asking out. But it seems like we should try to balance the squad first.

I mean, I'm not sure small changes like this will move the needle enough to matter. The West is just too deep and competitive for a team starring Sabonis and Fox to do much.

That's a fair view, not one that I share.

Thread on the GB shows impact, Sabonis in the top 10, Fox right around 30. Those 2 are arguably better than any player on the Rockets who are currently sitting in 3rd. The reality is more so that Fox-Sabonis are doing their job, but the rest of the team has let them down night after night. We have lost 10+ games within 2 possessions, many of those games we blew leads at the end of the game. We very easily could be sitting in 4th-5th place.

Sadly we are seeing on most nights we run rotations where it's 4 shooting guards + Sabonis. Or Fox + 2 guards + 2 mediocre forwards.

I don't think any team can expect to compete when they have 1 playable forward on the roster, and he himself is struggling.

I said the Kings were missing the playoffs before the season, mainly because they got Demar. But even if you make these minor moves to ditch him, the Kings just aren't that good. Their high water mark in the Sabonis/Fox era was 48 wins, and the West is more talented today than it was 2 years ago. Even if the Kings had a training camp to integrate these new guys, I just don't think the talent is there.

[Texas Chuck]

So Mike Brown was a great coach last year, but an idiot this year? Yeah not buying the issue is the coach. It would be one thing if you said fire Mike Brown and hire Coach X for reasons Y and Z, but just firing a guy out of frustration probably doesn't solve things. Little Mavs were in conference Finals then not even in the playoff team then right back in the Finals. Was Kidd a good coach then a terrible coach then a good coach again? Probably not.

I do agree with moving on from DeRozan and trying to get a forward. The issue is Hunter is having his best year and he's actually available to play. So Atlanta kinda needs him even if he's not a starter. I like how you account for that by giving the Hawks some real upside on the pick, but I'm just not sold they trade him. without a replacement.

I think the Nets asking prices are silly. It's fine to use your media mouthpieces to send that message this far from the deadline, but look at what was asked for Dennis and he moved much cheaper. Those guys aren't worth what Nets fans are demanding based on what local podcasters are parroting. I wouldn't rule them out.

Of course I wouldn't rule out Kuz either because he's playing so poorly his price has definitely come down from the high asks of last deadline. Though he's not the best fit, he's available and we know the Kings have liked him.

Agree the pickings are slim. I still wish Dallas could upgrade PJ Washington, but am having to be glad they at least got him before someone else so they at least have a starting caliber guy.

[Texas Chuck]

Step 3: Trade with Hawks
Huerter, Len, lowering protections to top 2 protected for Deandre Hunter

What about getting the Spurs involved and just making one trade? Something like this:

Spurs trade: Barnes/25 CHA 1st(really 26 and 27 CHA 2nds)/25 CHI 2nd(Kings now get it no matter where it falls)
Spurs get: DeRozan

Hawks trade: Hunter
Hawks get: Barnes/your lower protected 1st

Kings trade: DeRozan/protections lowered
Kings get: Hunter/3 good 2nds from the Spurs

Leaves you with Huerter instead of Mann and Len in place of Tucker, but gets you some assets if you want to try and turn their money into more of a defensive player.

Hawks get a solid 3rd forward while gaining the upside variance.
Spurs pay a cheap price to upgrade Barnes to DeRozan to push for a playoff spot for Wemby.

[jayjaysee]

I was wondering about.. Bogdan and the Sac first for Demar as a base?

You need to include Nance and a body going back to Atlanta and wiggle the tax for Atlanta.. and give them a few seconds since they lose the chance at the first.. but Demar running the offense when Trae is on the bench would help and Demar is locked up on a contract that is affordable for the next 18 months at least..

For Sac, you do it to trade your first as a better (less protected asset) and free up the 2026 swap / 2027 etc.. but feels like there is a deal there as an outsider.

[the_process]

Fixing the Kings starts with trading DDR. You have to be okay with a mediocre/slightly bad return, though. Because I'm not sure you can move DDR otherwise.

To illustrate that point using the above post: I don't think ATL would have any interest in DDR, but MIA could. But the offer is probably something like Duncan Robinson, Highsmith, and a 2nd.

[LightTheBeam]

So Mike Brown was a great coach last year, but an idiot this year? Yeah not buying the issue is the coach. It would be one thing if you said fire Mike Brown and hire Coach X for reasons Y and Z, but just firing a guy out of frustration probably doesn't solve things. Little Mavs were in conference Finals then not even in the playoff team then right back in the Finals. Was Kidd a good coach then a terrible coach then a good coach again? Probably not.

I do agree with moving on from DeRozan and trying to get a forward. The issue is Hunter is having his best year and he's actually available to play. So Atlanta kinda needs him even if he's not a starter. I like how you account for that by giving the Hawks some real upside on the pick, but I'm just not sold they trade him. without a replacement.

I think the Nets asking prices are silly. It's fine to use your media mouthpieces to send that message this far from the deadline, but look at what was asked for Dennis and he moved much cheaper. Those guys aren't worth what Nets fans are demanding based on what local podcasters are parroting. I wouldn't rule them out.

Of course I wouldn't rule out Kuz either because he's playing so poorly his price has definitely come down from the high asks of last deadline. Though he's not the best fit, he's available and we know the Kings have liked him.

Agree the pickings are slim. I still wish Dallas could upgrade PJ Washington, but am having to be glad they at least got him before someone else so they at least have a starting caliber guy.

Take my word as you will.

I preferred Mark Jackson over Mike Brown from the jump (both sucked but those were the reported options, but I at least viewed Mark as a tone setter for the future). Last off-season I wanted to keep Jordi and let Mike walk. The reality is he's never been a great coach. The team improved roster wise, and nobody was paying attention to us. We had a solid year. Last year, we didn't build or improve on any of that.

I've got a little before the wife gets home so I'll go into a few specifics.

His defensive scheme is without a doubt the worst in the league. Yes yes.. Monte isn't forgiven for this, the personnel sucks. I begged the team to sign a Naji Marshall or DJJ all off-season, probably made 50 posts about how disappointed i was that every forward who could play defense went for slightly under MLE and we didn't even get involved when we had a starting spot to offer. That said, the constant doubles and blitzs, go look in the game threads, this isn't something i've flip flopped on. Mike packs the paint and sends doubles all game, allowing teams to shoot insane amounts of wide open 3s against us. I've truly never seen anything like it.

His rotations are terrible. Last year we continued to give bad players minutes, and the thought was "keep trade value up" when in reality no trades for those players materialized. He's doing the same now. Last night is just a prime example, we were tied with Indiana at half. We then go down slightly in the 3rd, giving up wide open 3 after wide open 3. Instead of playing his best perimeter defender (Keon) and getting some extra size with Isaac Jones, he goes with Doug Mcdermott and Kevin Huerter. Keon will go from 30mins with big impact, to DNP, with zero explanation.. But god forbid Huerter who has been a defensive liability since he got here ever misses a minute.

His use of timeouts is awful. Other teams will see Sac go on a 5-6pt run and they will immediately call a timeout and draw up a play to stop the bleeding. Mike has on several occasions allowed teams to go 20+ without calling a timeout. It's literally baffling to see it. It happens nightly where we have a lead and allow 9-12pt runs without any adjustment or timeout.

This isn't to say Mike should take sole responsibility. This starts with Monte. He's terrible. On a team with Buddy, Tyrese, Fox, he used a top 10 pick on Davion. We all screamed why. Our 3-5 consisted of Holmes, Bagley, Harkless, Barnes.
His big free agent signing was Monk. His next big one was Demar. His second biggest trade was Kevin Huerter. One draft pick with Keegan, and then back to taking Devin Carter. Fox, Monk, Huerter, Keon, Devin, Demar. Like why so many guards? And that's after we gave picks to dump Davion and traded Hali away. Does he never learn from his mistakes that if you want to build a successful roster around Sabonis you need lengthy wings who can defend? Many we could have got in free agency by offering a starting spot and full MLE.

Monte must be fired as well. But that is this off-season. Today we can fire Mike and move onto a younger hungry guy like Christie. Maybe the team responds to him, maybe they don't. But at the current pace Fox is about to demolish his trade value, and we are going to rebuild either way.

Kuzma is just a slightly bigger Demar and doesn't solve any of our issues to be honest. I can appreciate Hunter having a good year and ATL passing, I loved what they did this off-season prioritizing getting size next to Trae. Collins is probably my #1 choice based on cost/availability, and while I understand he comes with flaws, it at least solves many of the issues we have. He can run, he can rebound, he can be a pnr threat with Monk/Fox, he is at worst a big body inside with Sabonis.

I've been through many bad years, this one feels like one of the worst. Constant blown leads, underachieving, misuse of talent, roster imbalance. The team is not having fun and neither are the fans.

[LightTheBeam]

Step 3: Trade with Hawks
Huerter, Len, lowering protections to top 2 protected for Deandre Hunter

What about getting the Spurs involved and just making one trade? Something like this:

Spurs trade: Barnes/25 CHA 1st(really 26 and 27 CHA 2nds)/25 CHI 2nd(Kings now get it no matter where it falls)
Spurs get: DeRozan

Hawks trade: Hunter
Hawks get: Barnes/your lower protected 1st

Kings trade: DeRozan/protections lowered
Kings get: Hunter/3 good 2nds from the Spurs

Leaves you with Huerter instead of Mann and Len in place of Tucker, but gets you some assets if you want to try and turn their money into more of a defensive player.

Hawks get a solid 3rd forward while gaining the upside variance.
Spurs pay a cheap price to upgrade Barnes to DeRozan to push for a playoff spot for Wemby.

This would be a fine start. I'd want to route those 3 good 2nds + Huerter + lyles for John Collins if possible.

Sabonis/Isaac Jones
Collins
Murray/Hunter
Keon/Devin Carter
Fox/Monk

We would at least have 4 good playable front court guys, and I think Fox/Monk/Keon can handle majority of guard minutes until Devin gets back. In the meantime I'd give Colby Jones more minutes as a big defensive guard who is active.

But why does SA want Demar around Wemby? I think they like the spacing around Wemby.

[ejftw]

I'd imagine Frank and Co would squeeze a second or two out of this but it wouldn't be anything to discuss unless DeMar is willing to be a 20-24 minute guy off the bench. No way do I play him over Norman

[jayjaysee]

If Atlanta didn’t do their trade with Hunter looking like an excellent 3rd forward, what would it cost to turn Tucker and Huerter into Grant? Or do you just need to find the right 4th team for Huerter

[ecuhus1981]

I like the idea of DeRozan to LAC, Mann and Tucker to SAC.

If they could get a defensive stretch 4 like Isaac, they'd be set. Maybe try to move Monk and a 1st for him???

[Skybox]

I like the idea of DeRozan to LAC, Mann and Tucker to SAC.

If they could get a defensive stretch 4 like Isaac, they'd be set. Maybe try to move Monk and a 1st for him???

I just proposed something around Isaac for Monk...given the injury history/minutes restrictions, I don't think SAC needs to add a pick...but it's hard to contemplate a more complementary pairing than Sabonis & Isaac.

Mine was:

ORL sends Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard
SAC sends Malik Monk, Trey Lyles, Kevin Huerter

SAC gets the defensive monster next to Sabonis in Isaac, with a steeply descending contract (drops to $14.5 x 3 with "outs") that offsets the injury/minutes restriction concerns. They get Cole Anthony, who just might fill the role that Monk did, to some extent, at roughly half the salary. They get a young sharpshooting prospect to replace Huerter, at a fraction of the price. This is really good, financially, for SAC, but it could certainly be trimmed down, if desired.

[LightTheBeam]

I like the idea of DeRozan to LAC, Mann and Tucker to SAC.

If they could get a defensive stretch 4 like Isaac, they'd be set. Maybe try to move Monk and a 1st for him???

I just proposed something around Isaac for Monk...given the injury history/minutes restrictions, I don't think SAC needs to add a pick...but it's hard to contemplate a more complementary pairing than Sabonis & Isaac.

Mine was:

ORL sends Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard
SAC sends Malik Monk, Trey Lyles, Kevin Huerter

SAC gets the defensive monster next to Sabonis in Isaac, with a steeply descending contract (drops to $14.5 x 3 with "outs") that offsets the injury/minutes restriction concerns. They get Cole Anthony, who just might fill the role that Monk did, to some extent, at roughly half the salary. They get a young sharpshooting prospect to replace Huerter, at a fraction of the price. This is really good, financially, for SAC, but it could certainly be trimmed down, if desired.

The feeling i get is monk is the last guy who will be traded. Just one of those guys. He just resigned here + he's fox's best friend. Fox is already upset, move monk you better have a fox trade lined up.

Id like Isaac, but kings and magic fans have never agreed on the value here. We would offer Huerter + 2nds. Maybe desperate enough to do huerter + Carter for Isaac + Howard. But magic fans never like the idea of huerter and I dont blame them. But I do think if there's a team that could cover huerter it's orlando.

[LightTheBeam]

I'd imagine Frank and Co would squeeze a second or two out of this but it wouldn't be anything to discuss unless DeMar is willing to be a 20-24 minute guy off the bench. No way do I play him over Norman

I agree with both. Kings would likely add a 2nd; and demar should play off the bench. Though with kawhi out he can probably be in the closing lineup when needed.

Harden - Powell - Demar - Jones Jr - Zubac