Shams: Landry Shamet Is Back

[MrDollarBills]

Can’t lie, I’m pretty skeptical about Shamet as a backup 3. I think he doesn’t have the size.

I still think Hart should be coming off the bench for roster balance. You can start Shamet at the 2 and push Bridges and OG up. Or you can start Precious and push Towns down. Or mix and match based on matchup.

Payne/McBride/Hart/Rim Protector.

My personal rotation would be:

Karl/Precious/OG/Mikal/Brunson

With Deuce, Shamet, Hart and Payne. Hart can run SF in the 2nd unit or just go small with a 3 guard line up that's tough to guard.

[MrDollarBills]

KAT/OG/Hart/Mikal/Brunson
Precious/Shamet/Payne/Deuce

There's zero reason why anyone should be playing over 40 mins now

Right. I know, I'm delusional.

[cgf]

Can’t lie, I’m pretty skeptical about Shamet as a backup 3. I think he doesn’t have the size.

I still think Hart should be coming off the bench for roster balance. You can start Shamet at the 2 and push Bridges and OG up. Or you can start Precious and push Towns down. Or mix and match based on matchup.

Payne/McBride/Hart/Rim Protector.

Did you just suggest starting Shamet over Hart or McBride?

[thebuzzardman]

Can’t lie, I’m pretty skeptical about Shamet as a backup 3. I think he doesn’t have the size.

I still think Hart should be coming off the bench for roster balance. You can start Shamet at the 2 and push Bridges and OG up. Or you can start Precious and push Towns down. Or mix and match based on matchup.

Payne/McBride/Hart/Rim Protector.

Did you just suggest starting Shamet over Hart or McBride?

That's the start Precious faction

[Maury2423]

I expect him to be in the 10-15mpg range, while I don’t love his height as a 3, he is a strong and tough player so we’ll see how often he’s out there with Cam and McBride.

I can’t wait to get Mitch back so we can see our real depth and how Thibs adapts because we’ll have 9-10 experienced rotation players

Also remember you only need him for regular season minutes to keep guys fresh. Come playoff time you play your top guys more minutes.

Yup, come playoff time I only expect to see McBride, Payne, and Mitch(or Precious, depending on the matchup)

[cgf]

I still think Hart should be coming off the bench for roster balance. You can start Shamet at the 2 and push Bridges and OG up. Or you can start Precious and push Towns down. Or mix and match based on matchup.

Payne/McBride/Hart/Rim Protector.

Did you just suggest starting Shamet over Hart or McBride?

That's the start Precious faction

Starting Precious at least has some logic too it. He hurts our spacing and creation, but his rim protection + switchability + rebounding fit really nicely next to Towns...but Shamet? If you want 5 sharpshooters out there start Deuce instead of Hart.

[R-DAWG]

I expect him to be in the 10-15mpg range, while I don’t love his height as a 3, he is a strong and tough player so we’ll see how often he’s out there with Cam and McBride.

I can’t wait to get Mitch back so we can see our real depth and how Thibs adapts because we’ll have 9-10 experienced rotation players

Also remember you only need him for regular season minutes to keep guys fresh. Come playoff time you play your top guys more minutes.

Yup, come playoff time I only expect to see McBride, Payne, and Mitch(or Precious, depending on the matchup)

I expect Mitch to be playing close to 30 MPG come playoff time and frankly, him being healthy is one of the biggest keys to this whole thing.

KAT’s 37 playoff minutes would then be split 50-50 between PF and C. With Hart getting about 29 MPG at the 4. Assuming your playing OG about 37 playoff minutes, Thibs is probably running Hart at the 3 the other 11 minutes keeping him around 40 MPG

C: Robinson (30), Towns (18)
PF: Towns (19), Hart (29)
SF: Anunoby (37), Hart (11)
SG: Bridges (37), McBride (12)
PG: Brunson (37), McBride (12)

Of course, Payne could end up getting 12 MPG at backup PG and McBride could eat some of Harte minutes. But the general play your top guys 37ish MPG come playoff time, with Mitch getting 30 and Hart 40 is the formula.

Really wish the coach would let the bench eat more regular season minutes even at the cost of a few wins. But it’s not how he does things.

[egelband]

Also remember you only need him for regular season minutes to keep guys fresh. Come playoff time you play your top guys more minutes.

Yup, come playoff time I only expect to see McBride, Payne, and Mitch(or Precious, depending on the matchup)

I expect Mitch to be playing close to 30 MPG come playoff time and frankly, him being healthy is one of the biggest keys to this whole thing.

KAT’s 37 playoff minutes would then be split 50-50 between PF and C. With Hart getting about 29 MPG at the 4. Assuming your playing OG about 37 playoff minutes, Thibs is probably running Hart at the 3 the other 11 minutes keeping him around 40 MPG

C: Robinson (30), Towns (18)
PF: Towns (19), Hart (29)
SF: Anunoby (37), Hart (11)
SG: Bridges (37), McBride (12)
PG: Brunson (37), McBride (12)

Of course, Payne could end up getting 12 MPG at backup PG and McBride could eat some of Harte minutes. But the general play your top guys 37ish MPG come playoff time, with Mitch getting 30 and Hart 40 is the formula.

Really wish the coach would let the bench eat more regular season minutes even at the cost of a few wins. But it’s not how he does things.

Was thinking Robinson isn’t reliable at this point. And not sure Sims or Huk are really that good, not yet at least. Need another vet big, I think. Like a herb Williams type.

[BKlutch]

KAT/OG/Hart/Mikal/Brunson
Precious/Shamet/Payne/Deuce

There's zero reason why anyone should be playing over 40 mins now

"But we're only up by 20 with 6 minutes to go!"

[BKlutch]

The Knicks must think he's a demon

They brought him back after a dislocated shoulder, but didn't bring back an All Star with the same injury...

LOL NO. The one they didn't bring back is the one some have called a demon.

[R-DAWG]

Yup, come playoff time I only expect to see McBride, Payne, and Mitch(or Precious, depending on the matchup)

I expect Mitch to be playing close to 30 MPG come playoff time and frankly, him being healthy is one of the biggest keys to this whole thing.

KAT’s 37 playoff minutes would then be split 50-50 between PF and C. With Hart getting about 29 MPG at the 4. Assuming your playing OG about 37 playoff minutes, Thibs is probably running Hart at the 3 the other 11 minutes keeping him around 40 MPG

C: Robinson (30), Towns (18)
PF: Towns (19), Hart (29)
SF: Anunoby (37), Hart (11)
SG: Bridges (37), McBride (12)
PG: Brunson (37), McBride (12)

Of course, Payne could end up getting 12 MPG at backup PG and McBride could eat some of Harte minutes. But the general play your top guys 37ish MPG come playoff time, with Mitch getting 30 and Hart 40 is the formula.

Really wish the coach would let the bench eat more regular season minutes even at the cost of a few wins. But it’s not how he does things.

Was thinking Robinson isn’t reliable at this point. And not sure Sims or Huk are really that good, not yet at least. Need another vet big, I think. Like a herb Williams type.

The Robinson lineup is a playoff lineup. Plug in Precious for the regular season and limit all others to 33-35 MPG

C: Precious (24), Towns (24)
PF: Towns (10), Hart (35), Anunoby (3)
SF: Anunoby (30), Bridges (12), Shamet (6)
SG: Bridges (23), McBride (25)
PG: Brunson (34), Payne (14)

Bridges and Hart lead the team at 35 MPG, Brunson/Towns play 34 MPG
Anunoby at 33

[cgf]

KAT/OG/Hart/Mikal/Brunson
Precious/Shamet/Payne/Deuce

There's zero reason why anyone should be playing over 40 mins now

"But we're only up by 20 with 6 minutes to go!"

Not sure this joke works as well the day after we watched Toronto chip a full 20pts off of our lead in the first 6 minutes of the 4th despite Thibs sticking with his typical rotation.

Now you can argue part of why the raps could chip away at the lead was that the starters got sloppy up by that much, in a way that the guys fighting for PT wouldn't...and I had that thought while watching the game...but it's tough to argue that Toronto wasn't capable of erasing a 20pt lead in less than 6 minutes when they did just that to get it down to 16.

[BKlutch]

KAT/OG/Hart/Mikal/Brunson
Precious/Shamet/Payne/Deuce

There's zero reason why anyone should be playing over 40 mins now

"But we're only up by 20 with 6 minutes to go!"

Not sure this joke works as well the day after we watched Toronto chip a full 20pts off of our lead in the first 6 minutes of the 4th despite Thibs sticking with his typical rotation.

Now you can argue part of why the raps could chip away at the lead was that the starters got sloppy up by that much, in a way that the guys fighting for PT wouldn't...and I had that thought while watching the game...but it's tough to argue that Toronto wasn't capable of erasing a 20pt lead in less than 6 minutes when they did just that to get it down to 16.

Maybe Thibs has a whole bag of excuses, and he'll just pull one of them out of that bag at random. He's afraid of losing no matter how secure the lead.

[cgf]

The Knicks must think he's a demon

They brought him back after a dislocated shoulder, but didn't bring back an All Star with the same injury...

LOL NO. The one they didn't bring back is the one some have called a demon.

Not looking to relitigate the trade as I'm thrilled with the team we have and am just trying to enjoy the ride, wherever it takes us

...but that "demon" has been a force for the wolves; even though they haven't clicked as quickly as we have...possibly because Finch hasn't given their core guys as many in-game reps as Thibs has and Donte has been pouting too much to earn a starting spot.

Randle's scoring a bit less & his rebounding is down bigly, but he's maintaining the ~60% TS he posted after those first 6 games last year...shooting just 35% from 3, so he's not juicing his efficiency with a hotstreak from deep...and he's creating a lot of open looks with his AST% in the 20s, despite how poorly Minny is shooting + them still figuring out where to go when Julius makes his moves.

Again love what KAT is doing for us, he's very easy to cheer for, and I'm happy about the trade, but we don't need to dump on one of the few Wolves who's playing close to his abilities despite their lack of chemistry to prop Towns up. Karl has been awesome in his own right.

[cgf]

"But we're only up by 20 with 6 minutes to go!"

Not sure this joke works as well the day after we watched Toronto chip a full 20pts off of our lead in the first 6 minutes of the 4th despite Thibs sticking with his typical rotation.

Now you can argue part of why the raps could chip away at the lead was that the starters got sloppy up by that much, in a way that the guys fighting for PT wouldn't...and I had that thought while watching the game...but it's tough to argue that Toronto wasn't capable of erasing a 20pt lead in less than 6 minutes when they did just that to get it down to 16.

Maybe Thibs has a whole bag of excuses, and he'll just pull one of them out of that bag at random. He's afraid of losing no matter how secure the lead.

Maybe, but we've seen Thibs pull the starters when it's 30+ halfway through the 4th so I think you're overstating how risk-averse he is...and it's hard to argue that a 20pt lead with more than 4minutes to play is very secure anymore. In this NBA, that can evaporate in the blink of an eye.

[BKlutch]

Not sure this joke works as well the day after we watched Toronto chip a full 20pts off of our lead in the first 6 minutes of the 4th despite Thibs sticking with his typical rotation.

Now you can argue part of why the raps could chip away at the lead was that the starters got sloppy up by that much, in a way that the guys fighting for PT wouldn't...and I had that thought while watching the game...but it's tough to argue that Toronto wasn't capable of erasing a 20pt lead in less than 6 minutes when they did just that to get it down to 16.

Maybe Thibs has a whole bag of excuses, and he'll just pull one of them out of that bag at random. He's afraid of losing no matter how secure the lead.

Maybe, but we've seen Thibs pull the starters when it's 30+ halfway through the 4th so I think you're overstating how risk-averse he is...and it's hard to argue that a 20pt lead with more than 4minutes to play is very secure anymore. In this NBA, that can evaporate in the blink of an eye.

It's also possible to put back 1 or 2 starters to stability the bench if needed. Other teams do well doing this, so I don't think a team with playoff aspirations should take chances wearing it's starters down during the regular season. Although most people don't call Brunson "athletic," his stops, starts, and changes of direction, as well as the frequency with which he accepts charges, put a lot of wear and tear on his body. I like how it was done last night - we did well as Jalen sat, so his minutes were reasonable at 32. But Mikal played almost 41.

[2010]

Also remember you only need him for regular season minutes to keep guys fresh. Come playoff time you play your top guys more minutes.

Yup, come playoff time I only expect to see McBride, Payne, and Mitch(or Precious, depending on the matchup)

I expect Mitch to be playing close to 30 MPG come playoff time and frankly, him being healthy is one of the biggest keys to this whole thing.

KAT’s 37 playoff minutes would then be split 50-50 between PF and C. With Hart getting about 29 MPG at the 4. Assuming your playing OG about 37 playoff minutes, Thibs is probably running Hart at the 3 the other 11 minutes keeping him around 40 MPG

C: Robinson (30), Towns (18)
PF: Towns (19), Hart (29)
SF: Anunoby (37), Hart (11)
SG: Bridges (37), McBride (12)
PG: Brunson (37), McBride (12)

Of course, Payne could end up getting 12 MPG at backup PG and McBride could eat some of Harte minutes. But the general play your top guys 37ish MPG come playoff time, with Mitch getting 30 and Hart 40 is the formula.

Really wish the coach would let the bench eat more regular season minutes even at the cost of a few wins. But it’s not how he does things.

Mitch has never averaged 30 mins per game in his career. I don’t think that’s realistic. Especially not coming off a long injury like this.

[BKlutch]

The Knicks must think he's a demon

They brought him back after a dislocated shoulder, but didn't bring back an All Star with the same injury...

LOL NO. The one they didn't bring back is the one some have called a demon.

Not looking to relitigate the trade as I'm thrilled with the team we have and am just trying to enjoy the ride, wherever it takes us

...but that "demon" has been a force for the wolves; even though they haven't clicked as quickly as we have...possibly because Finch hasn't given their core guys as many in-game reps as Thibs has and Donte has been pouting too much to earn a starting spot.

Randle's scoring a bit less & his rebounding is down bigly, but he's maintaining the ~60% TS he posted after those first 6 games last year...shooting just 35% from 3, so he's not juicing his efficiency with a hotstreak from deep...and he's creating a lot of open looks with his AST% in the 20s, despite how poorly Minny is shooting + them still figuring out where to go when Julius makes his moves.

Again love what KAT is doing for us, he's very easy to cheer for, and I'm happy about the trade, but we don't need to dump on one of the few Wolves who's playing close to his abilities despite their lack of chemistry to prop Towns up. Karl has been awesome in his own right.

I was more commenting on the use of the word "demon" to describe Shamet for recovering more quickly from his shoulder injury without surgery. I also mentioned others have used that word to describe who we traded, although I myself have never thought of him that way. It's probably true when their team isn't playing well, certain players can become "demonized" by the fans and the media. Last year should have shown everyone that with the right coaching, a player can do relatively well for us and then not be as successful in a different offense and coaching. A major factor over there is their guard, Ant, is stymied by their lack of spacing and his lesser success shooting from 3. Ant hasn't adapted to this well and has expressed considerable frustration in the media about the lack of driving lanes for him.

[cgf]

Maybe Thibs has a whole bag of excuses, and he'll just pull one of them out of that bag at random. He's afraid of losing no matter how secure the lead.

Maybe, but we've seen Thibs pull the starters when it's 30+ halfway through the 4th so I think you're overstating how risk-averse he is...and it's hard to argue that a 20pt lead with more than 4minutes to play is very secure anymore. In this NBA, that can evaporate in the blink of an eye.

It's also possible to put back 1 or 2 starters to stability the bench if needed. Other teams do well doing this, so I don't think a team with playoff aspirations should take chances wearing it's starters down during the regular season. Although most people don't call Brunson "athletic," his stops, starts, and changes of direction, as well as the frequency with which he accepts charges, put a lot of wear and tear on his body. I like how it was done last night - we did well as Jalen sat, so his minutes were reasonable at 32. But Mikal played almost 41.

I mean didn't Thibs do exactly that? I'd have to check the substitutions to make sure I'm not misremembering, but weren't we running Payne - McBride - Bridges - Achiuwa - Towns until the lead got down to the teens & then Karl fouled out? That's mostly bench guys with 1 or 2 starters to stabilize things.

We're still 1 rotation guy short...and could do with better injury insurance than Sims & Shamet...but given what was at hand and the way Toronto chipped away at the lead early in the 4th, I don't know that I would've done much differently. Once Mitch is back I hope we see more minutes with blended units to manage everyone's minutes better:

Brunson - Bridges/McBride - Hart/Bridges - Anunoby/Hart - Robinson
Payne - McBride/Bridges - Bridges/Hart/Anunoby - Achiuwa - Towns

before closing with Brunson, OG, Towns, and two of: McBride | Bridges | Hart | Achiuwa | Robinson. I'd still want a rim protector that Thibs trusted to step in when Mitch is hurt...don't think Sims took enough of a step this season to be that guy this year...and a depth 3&D wing that Thibs would trust with 20mpg when OG gets banged up, but getting healthy should help a lot.


Plus I do think that given the lack of practice time during the season, Thibs could be using the games to speedrun chemistry-development amongst the core. In which case, he should ease up the starters' minutes and start experimenting more with his other options, once they've made up for the lack of a training camp with Karl.

[cgf]

LOL NO. The one they didn't bring back is the one some have called a demon.

Not looking to relitigate the trade as I'm thrilled with the team we have and am just trying to enjoy the ride, wherever it takes us

...but that "demon" has been a force for the wolves; even though they haven't clicked as quickly as we have...possibly because Finch hasn't given their core guys as many in-game reps as Thibs has and Donte has been pouting too much to earn a starting spot.

Randle's scoring a bit less & his rebounding is down bigly, but he's maintaining the ~60% TS he posted after those first 6 games last year...shooting just 35% from 3, so he's not juicing his efficiency with a hotstreak from deep...and he's creating a lot of open looks with his AST% in the 20s, despite how poorly Minny is shooting + them still figuring out where to go when Julius makes his moves.

Again love what KAT is doing for us, he's very easy to cheer for, and I'm happy about the trade, but we don't need to dump on one of the few Wolves who's playing close to his abilities despite their lack of chemistry to prop Towns up. Karl has been awesome in his own right.

I was more commenting on the use of the word "demon" to describe Shamet for recovering more quickly from his shoulder injury without surgery. I also mentioned others have used that word to describe who we traded, although I myself have never thought of him that way. It's probably true when their team isn't playing well, certain players can become "demonized" by the fans and the media. Last year should have shown everyone that with the right coaching, a player can do relatively well for us and then not be as successful in a different offense and coaching. A major factor over there is their guard, Ant, is stymied by their lack of spacing and his lesser success shooting from 3. Ant hasn't adapted to this well and has expressed considerable frustration in the media about the lack of driving lanes for him.

Ah gotcha. My bad for assuming you were just s***ting on Randle with that comment, totally see how you meant it now. Should've caught that on a first-read.


And yeah, their shooting is really killing them. Not just the KAT to Ju downgrade, but Donte (33%) & Reid (35%) are both shooting much worse than they were last year, McDaniels' shooting seems to have regressed again (32%)...and Mike Conley suddenly starting to look his age has hurt them a lot, both in terms of spacing and their offensive structure.

Ant has adapted pretty well as a scorer as he & Ju have shown some natural sense for how to play off of each other's drives, but at this point in his career, Edwards jsut doesn't have Jalen's control of an offense, so an Ant-DDV backcourt doesn't run a game the same way a Brunson-DDV backcourt did even if Donte got his shot right.

I like what I've seen of Dillingham and Minott, but those kids aren't ready to turn the tide if their top 8...Conley | DDV | NAW | Ant | McDaniels | Reid | Randle | Gobert...doesn't gel and start shooting a lot better. Though Dilly can sometimes provide that spark off the bench.