2024-2025 Regular Season Game 32: Miami Heat (14-13) at Orlando Magic (19-12) - 7pm

[richi_v25]

My Dunce Cap vote goes to Cole Anthony but Issac is sitting next to him.

[RookieStar]

Well... we shot abysmally from 3 this game, the universe should balance it by making us respectable from 3 tomorrow right?.... right?

[richi_v25]

Well... we shot abysmally from 3 this game, the universe should balance it by making us respectable from 3 tomorrow right?.... right?

Oh gosh we play against the team that destroyed us on national TV on back to back... Great Go Magics!

[basketballRob]

Isaac was starting to play well before that hamstring strain.

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[thelead]

My Dunce Cap vote goes to Cole Anthony but Issac is sitting next to him.

JI didn't really do much out there but he wasn't anywhere near as bad as 0 for 4, 0 points, 4 turnovers, and 4 fouls Cole.

[Knightro]

Kinda.

This is also assuming that everything you saw last season at full health also wasn’t a complete lie right?

Was Orlando a great amazing 3-point shooting perfectly run offense last season or did I miss that part?

It’s like the FO not addressing glaringly obvious roster issues and saying “yeah we weren’t healthy we won’t move anyone, we know nothing” like everyone is an idiot and doesn’t know how basketball works or skill sets materialize out of thin air to justify things.

I think you’re underestimating how much young guys have improved and will continue to improve.

Personally? I don’t really put any stock whatsoever into how they looked last year because that’s last year.

Paolo, Franz, Suggs are all different players than they were last year. Their respective improvements might manifest themselves in obvious ways or in subtle ways, but none of those guys are in any way *worse* than last year.

They will get better for sure. It will definitely be a better version of what we saw last season.

I don’t think the system offensively was good last season though.

So take that for what it’s worth and from a guy that plays up a schtick.

The “system” sucked last year primarily because Paolo was inefficient as a shooter/scorer as well as high turnover and Franz was spectacularly bad at shooting threes.

If those two things improve, and based on what we saw from both guys when they were playing this year, it appears those things were improved, the system will magically look a lot better.

When your highest USG guy jumps from a .546 TS% to a .590 TS% and cuts the turnovers from 13% to 8%, that literally alone with nothing else will improve the offense dramatically.

Combine that with your second highest usage guy proving he can scale up in USG by 5-6% (a massive jump) without losing any efficiency too?

There’s a lot of ways to skin the cat offensively. But generally speaking, if your individual talents are really good offensively your offense as a whole will follow suit.

[Husky1]

I think Isaac needs an organizer like Ingles last year. AB can do it sometimes, but other times, he runs from the ball. 14 assists for the team is really bad. AB had a stretch where he looked like a PG but stopped.

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How many more excuses does our fan base need to give this guy

[Husky1]

JI, WCJ, KCP, and Cole are 4 of our 5 highest paid players, about 72 million in total. All are shooting 30% or lower from 3. Three of them are bench players. Three of them got 15 mins or less in a game with 3 key players missing. Interesting.

And people still think Lavine, Anfernee etc are too expensive. Look at how much money we have wasted on the bench that hinder us more than help us when they’re out there

[basketballRob]

JI, WCJ, KCP, and Cole are 4 of our 5 highest paid players, about 72 million in total. All are shooting 30% or lower from 3. Three of them are bench players. Three of them got 15 mins or less in a game with 3 key players missing. Interesting.

And people still think Lavine, Anfernee etc are too expensive. Look at how much money we have wasted on the bench that hinder us more than help us when they’re out there

Anfernee is 0-6 for 0 points tonight. I would wait until he had a decent game before talking about trading for him.

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[VFX]

I think you’re underestimating how much young guys have improved and will continue to improve.

Personally? I don’t really put any stock whatsoever into how they looked last year because that’s last year.

Paolo, Franz, Suggs are all different players than they were last year. Their respective improvements might manifest themselves in obvious ways or in subtle ways, but none of those guys are in any way *worse* than last year.

They will get better for sure. It will definitely be a better version of what we saw last season.

I don’t think the system offensively was good last season though.

So take that for what it’s worth and from a guy that plays up a schtick.

The “system” sucked last year primarily because Paolo was inefficient as a shooter/scorer as well as high turnover and Franz was spectacularly bad at shooting threes.

If those two things improve, and based on what we saw from both guys when they were playing this year, it appears those things were improved, the system will magically look a lot better.

When your highest USG guy jumps from a .546 TS% to a .590 TS% and cuts the turnovers from 13% to 8%, that literally alone with nothing else will improve the offense dramatically.

Combine that with your second highest usage guy proving he can scale up in USG by 5-6% (a massive jump) without losing any efficiency too?

There’s a lot of ways to skin the cat offensively. But generally speaking, if your individual talents are really good offensively your offense as a whole will follow suit.

This harkens back to conversations a month or so ago that ultimately devolve into “I guess we will see when everyone is healthy”.

Like, Boston without Tatum and Brown are still a team with Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, KP, Horford, and Pritchard yknow? Thats still a very competitive two way team that can do things.

Orlando is well.. just a combination of who you see now that relies entirely on those two guys systemically for offense.

I would never say those guys won’t get better as players. Yeah, Orlando will be worse without them. They should be shouldering the load offensively. I just also can glean some takeaways of this groups capabilities without them on offense.

It’s a lot of young players but they are definitely inconsistent as the guys you want to fortify your support “system” around. This game was a somewhat good example of that. Incredible defense, poor shot selection/offense, terrible ball control and poise.

Suggs, while extremely valuable on defense, is tasked with attempting to make up offense he isn’t really capable of doing. In a way he has regressed out of necessity due to the FO passing on a trad point guard. This is the result whether intended or not. That’s part of the game when you take risks like “these two rookie scale guys run everything on offense” with no real alternative in the interim.

So we are back to “I guess we will see”. I’m just holding firm in the belief that some of your supporting cast should be able to generate reliable offense aside from your two stars. Moe kind of does in a black hole kind of way. That would be a nice leg to stand on from this season (no pun intended). I’m just not really seeing it. And no, I’m not taking that away from this game directly. It’s just an overarching take from this and last season.

[Redwood]

Lose by 1, shoot 5 of 30 from 3. Suggs 2-12.

Not difficult to spot what caused this loss.

[j_n]

We took almost the same amount of threes and made 10 fewer, that a 30 point swing that we almost managed to erase, this was supposed to be a blowout loss.

Doesn't change much as far as W-L goes but I love this team and it's ability to grind and stay in every game.

[cedric76]

Lose by 1, shoot 5 of 30 from 3. Suggs 2-12.

Not difficult to spot what caused this loss.

Cole, 12 min, 0-4 (0-2 3pt), 4 to, 4 fouls, 100% hero plays

Trade him for DFS

[pepe1991]

I think you’re underestimating how much young guys have improved and will continue to improve.

Personally? I don’t really put any stock whatsoever into how they looked last year because that’s last year.

Paolo, Franz, Suggs are all different players than they were last year. Their respective improvements might manifest themselves in obvious ways or in subtle ways, but none of those guys are in any way *worse* than last year.

They will get better for sure. It will definitely be a better version of what we saw last season.

I don’t think the system offensively was good last season though.

So take that for what it’s worth and from a guy that plays up a schtick.

The “system” sucked last year primarily because Paolo was inefficient as a shooter/scorer as well as high turnover and Franz was spectacularly bad at shooting threes.

If those two things improve, and based on what we saw from both guys when they were playing this year, it appears those things were improved, the system will magically look a lot better.

When your highest USG guy jumps from a .546 TS% to a .590 TS% and cuts the turnovers from 13% to 8%, that literally alone with nothing else will improve the offense dramatically.

Combine that with your second highest usage guy proving he can scale up in USG by 5-6% (a massive jump) without losing any efficiency too?

There’s a lot of ways to skin the cat offensively. But generally speaking, if your individual talents are really good offensively your offense as a whole will follow suit.

Eh.
Banchero played 5 games this year, one of those five was best game of his career where he just made sh** loud of contested and semi contested jumpers. Do you know his true shooting percentage in other 4 games? 54%.

Franz exploded AFTER Banchero got hurt. During 5 games as they played together he had back to back 7 point games on sub 10 shots taken because Banchero took 46 shots in two games, as Suggs took 33 himself. Franz averaged 12,8 shots a game in 5 games Banchero played.

Difference between "last year" and "this year" isn't one year, it's early May 2024 to late October 2024. Not many changes happened from "development" POV. Other than addition of Gary Harris younger twin, it's same roster.

Franz came alive once he turned into 1st option because he simply had more freedom to do whatever he wanted. With Banchero on the court due his iso play style there is way more ball stoppage no matter do you want to admit it or not, it's just what it is.
Sample size is small ( again, 5 games) but to this date his sheer volume of iso possessions keeps Banchero at 5# most possessions per game where he had isolation. And let's not live under illusion those iso plays were any good for offensive rating (0,8 ppp).

In stark contrast of how Franz is used with and without Banchero there is good food for a thought :

With Banchero playing ( October) Franz at averaged received 35 passes a game.
Without Banchero on the court ( November and December ) Franz at average received : 57 - November- 62 December.

Last whole year, he averaged 42 received passes a game.

Basically he was target man and trigger man with Paolo out and was played like best players on the court play. With Paolo around, Franz falls to distant 2-3 option, sometimes playing even behind Suggs, who should take step back in his role no matter what future brings.

You can't just extrapolate one part of equation, take portion of the other and assume best of two worlds line up in perfect fashion just because you need them to.

We can flip this argument into few simple quesitons like:
- Do Magic need so many defensive role players just because of irrational fear that without all of them defense will collapse ?

- How can anybody justify paying Isaac $25M this year and in same time play him 13 min in games where starting SF,PF and C/PF and backup PF/C are all out?

- why did we resign every single role player no matter what he showed or proved ( mainly Isaac and Carter )

- how can you rationalize holding guy as 3rd stringer just to turn him into starting SG

- how is possible to have game in modern era where leading assist guy has 2 assists in game and still elect to stay blind to see problem with your "point guards" ?

[Rainwater]

While three point shooting was a problem, the bigger problem was the lack of production from the bench. I thought the starters played well too.

[SOUL]

Franz was sick those two games and didnt play entire halves to be fair.. the three actual games they played fully together Franz scored 23 or more on 16 or more shots every game.

Lot of these roles make sense with a healthy team. You can argue that this team is rarely healthy, so it's hard to feel like its worth keeping the team together if they only work a specific way, but like we are way better than expected this year with all of these injuries.

It's obvious we will need a guard of some kind to come in and help steady us, but again, they seem willing to let AB/the team take the lumps since we aren't a contender THIS year.

[pepe1991]

Franz was sick those two games and didnt play entire halves to be fair.. the three actual games they played fully together Franz scored 23 or more on 16 or more shots every game.

Lot of these roles make sense with a healthy team. You can argue that this team is rarely healthy, so it's hard to feel like its worth keeping the team together if they only work a specific way, but like we are way better than expected this year with all of these injuries.

It's obvious we will need a guard of some kind to come in and help steady us, but again, they seem willing to let AB/the team take the lumps since we aren't a contender THIS year.

They were healthy pretty much entire 2023-24 season as a group and last year Franz only averaged 15 shots a game on 25% usage.

This year-

Last 15 games ( all without Banchero, him being healthy, flue free)- 32,7% usage rate, 20,5 shots a game.

So it's still up in the air to figure how to bland Banchero and Franz together, in situation where neither Banchero will make Franz less potent, nor Franz will stand in way of Banchero.
Up until this year people just assumed Banchero is more talented offensive player and that was it. After November, there wasn't single serious person around NBA that would make serious case for Franz taking step down. But in order to have this "Wunder Franz" , Banchero will probably need to take slight step down, because it's near impossible to run offense with two -30% usage rate players and not turn rest of roster into spectators.

hey seem willing to let AB/the team take the lumps since we aren't a contender THIS year.

That would make sense if Black is actually being played like PG, especially now without both Franz and Paolo. But it's not. He somehow plays LESS overall and even some early season playmaking duties he had, are now taken away from him. That first Philly game was last time it felt like Black plays play maker. Ever since he is just wing who sometimes walks ball through half court.

Even by just looking at raw APGs you can see decline in role. From 4,1 APG to 2,7.

[Knightro]

They will get better for sure. It will definitely be a better version of what we saw last season.

I don’t think the system offensively was good last season though.

So take that for what it’s worth and from a guy that plays up a schtick.

The “system” sucked last year primarily because Paolo was inefficient as a shooter/scorer as well as high turnover and Franz was spectacularly bad at shooting threes.

If those two things improve, and based on what we saw from both guys when they were playing this year, it appears those things were improved, the system will magically look a lot better.

When your highest USG guy jumps from a .546 TS% to a .590 TS% and cuts the turnovers from 13% to 8%, that literally alone with nothing else will improve the offense dramatically.

Combine that with your second highest usage guy proving he can scale up in USG by 5-6% (a massive jump) without losing any efficiency too?

There’s a lot of ways to skin the cat offensively. But generally speaking, if your individual talents are really good offensively your offense as a whole will follow suit.

Eh.
Banchero played 5 games this year, one of those five was best game of his career where he just made sh** loud of contested and semi contested jumpers. Do you know his true shooting percentage in other 4 games? 54%.

Franz exploded AFTER Banchero got hurt. During 5 games as they played together he had back to back 7 point games on sub 10 shots taken because Banchero took 46 shots in two games, as Suggs took 33 himself. Franz averaged 12,8 shots a game in 5 games Banchero played.

Lacking context as Franz got sick and barely played the last two of the five games Paolo also played which skewed his averages way down.

Games 1-3 Franz took 17 FGA per game and averaged 25 PPG.

Games 4-5 he took 13 shots total because he was sick and had low minutes.

[Knightro]

If anyone around here wants to believe Paolo Banchero is going to be a 54 TS% and 13 TOV% player again this season like he was last year, be my guest.

I say, respectfully, assume that at your own risk.

[pepe1991]

If anyone around here wants to believe Paolo Banchero is going to be a 54 TS% and 13 TOV% player again this season like he was last year, be my guest.

I say, respectfully, assume that at your own risk.

And you think he will sustain 59% TS?