Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[PushDaRock]

We've got a special player on our hands.

It looked like he had a bad game yet his stat line was still good.

Most of it came from stat padding when the game was out of reach. The numbers were far better than how he played.

[anotherhomer]

We've got a special player on our hands.

It looked like he had a bad game yet his stat line was still good.

Stat line was fine, but he isn't looking like himself at all. He is avoiding jumping for rebounds and blocks that he usually would go after.

And if you watch him run, he is doing so with a limp still. He has no bounce from that foot.

i feel like we'll be seeing a scottie that's more cautious moving forward

[TakeYourHeart]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

[Reeko]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

[Scase]

It looked like he had a bad game yet his stat line was still good.

Stat line was fine, but he isn't looking like himself at all. He is avoiding jumping for rebounds and blocks that he usually would go after.

And if you watch him run, he is doing so with a limp still. He has no bounce from that foot.

Absolutely. He looks nothing like the guy who could sometimes be the best player on the floor. Lately he’s looked like a role player. Can’t wait until he’s healthy again.

He absolutely shoulnd't be playing. He's so obviously still injured he should be sitting, there is 0 chance he makes anything resembling all nba on this team, so I can't think why else he's risking further injury.

[Raps in 4]

It looked like he had a bad game yet his stat line was still good.

Stat line was fine, but he isn't looking like himself at all. He is avoiding jumping for rebounds and blocks that he usually would go after.

And if you watch him run, he is doing so with a limp still. He has no bounce from that foot.

Absolutely. He looks nothing like the guy who could sometimes be the best player on the floor. Lately he’s looked like a role player. Can’t wait until he’s healthy again.

He does seem to get injured a lot though. I wonder if he's just one of those players (like OG) who is going to be constantly banged up.

[RoteSchroder]

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

Roughly speaking in terms of offensive anchors, guys you might build around includes: Embiid (healthy), Luka, Shai, Giannis, Jokic

Washed up/getting old: LBJ, Steph, Durant, Lillard, Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler (latter two being tier 2)

Could be up there if he wasn't fat, lazy and injury prone: Zion Williamson

Fringe or tier 2 players you may try to build around: Tatum, Banchero, Franz Wagner, Lamelo Ball, Ja Morant, Anthony Edwards, Brunson, De'Aaron Fox, Wemby, Cade Cunningham

Scottie might belong on the last list, but there are moments where he shows that he's not the guy you just hand the ball to and have him create a look every time down the stretch. I don't think there's anything wrong if he's in the Mobley, Bam, JJJr mold of players (all-star level support player).

[Basketball_Jones]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

Sounds like Coop/Harper or bust to me.

[Dalek]

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

Roughly speaking in terms of offensive anchors, guys you might build around includes: Embiid (healthy), Luka, Shai, Giannis, Jokic

Washed up/getting old: LBJ, Steph, Durant, Lillard, Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler (latter two being tier 2)

Could be up there if he wasn't fat, lazy and injury prone: Zion Williamson

Fringe or tier 2 players you may try to build around: Tatum, Banchero, Franz Wagner, Lamelo Ball, Ja Morant, Anthony Edwards, Brunson, De'Aaron Fox, Wemby, Cade Cunningham

Scottie might belong on the last list, but there are moments where he shows that he's not the guy you just hand the ball to and have him create a look every time down the stretch. I don't think there's anything wrong if he's in the Mobley, Bam, JJJr mold of players (all-star level support player).

I have no issue seeing Scottie as a second star, but we are basically trying make a Scottie Pippen into Michael Jordan. We pay him a max and let him call all the shots. Even coach got thrown out for him twice now.

Scottie takes technical freethrows and pull up threes when he can't shoot. They drafted the borderline useless Mogbo just because he is Scottie's grade school BFF.

Even if we are in position to get a superstar, does Scottie know how to be an effective second fiddle or does he just disappear because he is no longer the main attraction?

[Los_29]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

Sounds like Coop/Harper or bust to me.

The funny thing is I don’t know if Cooper can be that guy too. He’s a premier talent though.

[TheProfessor]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell, Brunson, KAT, Trae, Embiid, Booker, Durant, AD, Lamelo, Steph, Lebron, even guys like Markennen. They don't necessarily need an MVP-calibre guy, but they do need someone to put Scottie in his place as the number 2. Scottie excels at passing, rebounding, defending, playmaking not scoring. This scoring mindset actually needs to be dropped and I think is hindering his development, you can see his defense declining as picks up more of an offensive load and is chucking shots up and failing. I have been saying this for a while, Scottie can be the best player on a championship team eventually, but he can never be your best offensive player.

Hopefully we can trade or draft (Harper) for a player than put Scottie in his natural role, instead of wasting cap and asset on mid players like IQ and Barnes.

[Tripod]

Quite the hot takes today

[MiamiSPX]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

I said the same thing a couple of pages ago in this thread. Can he be the top guy on a legitimate contender? I think most of us have come to the realization/acceptance that he will never be that dude. BUT, we also say it so casually as if finding that alpha is so damn easy. There are like 5-6 guys like that.

[HumbleRen]

I think by the end of year 4 you roughly get a pretty good gauge of someone’s realistic offensive ceiling when it comes to lottery picks.

I think he’s pretty near his offensive ceiling, he’ll just slightly get better every year until he’s 30 or so but there’s not going to be another major leap IMO.

He’s going to be one hell of a 2 way star in this league but he just doesn’t have enough athleticism and body coordination to be a legit on ball threat as the #1 option. His high hips and lack of any bend in his knees just won’t allow him to be able to get low with his dribble. He’s essentially a wing with the lower body of a center.

Before people yell at me for saying he isn’t athletic enough, athleticism is way more than just length and size. It’s also body coordination, loose hips, ankle flexibility and lower center of gravity. While Scottie was gifted with length and size, it doesn’t come with the latter sadly. This wouldn’t be an issue if he was 6’11 because you can play upright as a center but unfortunately he has the height of a wing player.

It’s the same reason why RJ will never be a positive defender, his center of gravity is very low which allows him to get low to the floor with a live dribble but he has stiff hips + heavy feet which makes him have very slow lateral quickness and virtually no East to West movement ability.

I’m yapping alot but body mechanics is very interesting to me in sports, especially in the NBA because of how integral it is to someone becoming a superstar vs not being one.

[tsherkin]

I think by the end of year 4 you roughly get a pretty good gauge of someone’s realistic offensive ceiling when it comes to lottery picks.

I think he’s pretty near his offensive ceiling, he’ll just slightly get better every year until he’s 30 or so but there’s not going to be another major leap IMO.

He’s going to be one hell of a 2 way star in this league but he just doesn’t have enough athleticism and body coordination to be a legit on ball threat as the #1 option. His high hips and lack of any bend in his knees just won’t allow him to be able to get low with his dribble. He’s essentially a wing with the lower body of a center.

Before people yell at me for saying he isn’t athletic enough, athleticism is way more than just length and size. It’s also body coordination, loose hips, ankle flexibility and lower center of gravity. While Scottie was gifted with length and size, it doesn’t come with the latter sadly. This wouldn’t be an issue if he was 6’11 because you can play upright as a center but unfortunately he has the height of a wing player.

It’s the same reason why RJ will never be a positive defender, his center of gravity is very low which allows him to get low to the floor with a live dribble but he has stiff hips + heavy feet which makes him have very slow lateral quickness and virtually no East to West movement ability.

I’m yapping alot but body mechanics is very interesting to me in sports, especially in the NBA because of how integral it is to someone becoming a superstar vs not being one.

Scottie doesn't have the quickness to be a primary threat, and he doesn't have the shooting touch to overcome it. Those are his biggest issues. And yes, body mechanics are a fascinating angle. Hopefully, he goes the Demar route and sorts himself out over time while we try to find someone with primacy over him as a scorer. He's got, what, 9 feet of standing reach and a wingspan of like 7'3? So his raw height isn't a huge issue and he has some power, which is good.

But again, it's 18 games and a bunch of injuries. We should give him some time. One game improved his seasonal TS% by like 0.5%, and it wasn't even a stunning game. If he gets himself even to league-average efficiency, then his utility as an offensive player changes pretty noticeably, even more so in the context of having a proper primary scorer.

[TorontoBarneys]

Scottie's biggest offensive weapon is his strength. He needs to understand that he can bully 90% of players in this league before he can reach his offensive potential.

[tsherkin]

Scottie's biggest offensive weapon is his strength. He needs to understand that he can bully 90% of players in this league before he can reach his offensive potential.

I think he has a pretty good understanding of his strength. You see it in how he gets to his spots. His problem is finishing outside of 10 feet, and that isn't strength-related. He actually does quite well in and around the post precisely because he knows how to wield his shoulders.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie's biggest offensive weapon is his strength. He needs to understand that he can bully 90% of players in this league before he can reach his offensive potential.

It’s not that simple. Maybe back in the 2000’s but not in today’s NBA. There’s just too much skill nowadays.

Scottie is also not as strong as you think he is, atleast in a basketball sense. His high hips and long legs negates a lot of his functional NBA strength. It’s why RJ has an easier time moving people out of the way on drives compared to OG or Scottie despite the latter 2 being significantly stronger than him on paper.

[Naysorn]

"Scottie Barnes, excellent talent. I don't know if he's the guy you build around. Could he be a nice compliment to another star?"

"They need that unquestioned alpha dog."

How many of those dudes are there in the league right now? Luka, Jokic, Steph, Shai, Giannis. And then guys who might be that but haven't quite proven it Tatum, Edwards, Banchero, Wemby. Outside of Wemby all of those guys have way better teams than what Scottie has around him right now. Don't get me wrong, he really needs to mature as a scorer, and you can see the moves are coming along but more so the scorer mindset is what really needs to be developed.

Tatum won the ring as a #1 option. He had a great supporting cast around him, including an all-NBA player and 3 fringe all-star players, yes, but he's now in that MVP conversation.

Best players in the world rn: Jokic, Giannis, Shai, Luka, Tatum, Wemby.

That's the level of player you need to win a championship.

I can't think of the last time a team won a title w/out a top-10 player in the world - maybe Spurs in 2014?

If Scottie can't be that, then Masai will need to pull off a Kawhi-type trade again. It probably won't be enough to get a Devin Booker level player. But I mean, we'll see how the Cavs do this year. If the Cavs make the finals, then they've proven a non top-10 player like Donovan Mitchell can lead a team to a title in this current NBA.

[AbC?]

I think by the end of year 4 you roughly get a pretty good gauge of someone’s realistic offensive ceiling when it comes to lottery picks.

I think he’s pretty near his offensive ceiling, he’ll just slightly get better every year until he’s 30 or so but there’s not going to be another major leap IMO.

He’s going to be one hell of a 2 way star in this league but he just doesn’t have enough athleticism and body coordination to be a legit on ball threat as the #1 option. His high hips and lack of any bend in his knees just won’t allow him to be able to get low with his dribble. He’s essentially a wing with the lower body of a center.

Before people yell at me for saying he isn’t athletic enough, athleticism is way more than just length and size. It’s also body coordination, loose hips, ankle flexibility and lower center of gravity. While Scottie was gifted with length and size, it doesn’t come with the latter sadly. This wouldn’t be an issue if he was 6’11 because you can play upright as a center but unfortunately he has the height of a wing player.

It’s the same reason why RJ will never be a positive defender, his center of gravity is very low which allows him to get low to the floor with a live dribble but he has stiff hips + heavy feet which makes him have very slow lateral quickness and virtually no East to West movement ability.

I’m yapping alot but body mechanics is very interesting to me in sports, especially in the NBA because of how integral it is to someone becoming a superstar vs not being one.

I think you and I were among the few that were pointing out his physical limitations early in his career when most of the fanbase had dreams of Giannis and Kawhi upside. Those guys are literally built different and as soon as we saw Barnes on the court with other NBA athletes it was pretty clear he wasn't a physical outlier.