What is Cam Johnson’s value?

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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#41 » by DarkXaero » Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:22 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:I dont get the "putting up good numbers on a bad team" narrative. CamJ is not that type of player, he's a rhythm player that goes with the flow and feeds off other great players. Cam Thomas is the type of player that puts up good numbers on bad teams because he can take all the shots he want and he's a 1on1 type of player anyway. Cam Johnson is not, he takes efficient shots and is not a chucker like Cam Thomas and others, so for him to be putting up these kinds of stats and efficiency on a bad team like this is impressive and teams should take notice.

He's leading the way for the nets right now even though they are not a good team he's still making smart decisions in game on both sides of the ball. It's fair to say that he has improved his game and yes he is having a career year right now but it's not on a contract year which most players seem to want to ball out, he still has 2 years left after this year. I think 2 firsts is a start, like others have said maybe a good first with light protections and a swap or heavily protected 1st. He's the type of player that can fit literally on any team


You are right. But its like with Mikal. Mikal was getting first option touches and so his counting totals went up. Cam's volume is higher in Brooklyn than it is likely to be with a contender. That's the part of the numbers people should be talking about.

His offensive fit on good teams though should be super obvious.
Mikal was putting up 19.6 PPG on 56% TS% (34.8 MPG), with a usage rate of 24.3% last year.

Cam J is putting up 19.5 PPG on 66.5% TS% right now (32.9 MPG), with a usage rate of 21.7%. Cam J is doing more in less minutes than Mikal, and with less touches than Mikal, with efficiency tiers above Mikal's. Worth noting that advanced metrics currently have Cam J as one of the best performing (top 50 players) in the league. Mikal was never that last season for us. In fact, Mikal was really quite bad when given those touches. None of what Cam J is doing right now is unsustainable on a contender. He can easily put up 18 PPG on ~60-65% TS% on a contender as a 3rd option. Nets currently have no one creating for him really, Schroder was the only guy and we traded him to handicap the roster since we were winning too many games. Cam Thomas has been hurt so opposing teams' defensive gameplans primary focus has been Cam Johnson. It hasn't slowed him down. He's averaging 22.5 PPG on 67.8% TS% in his last 10 games...

Also if you're bringing up the Mikal comparison, then it leads to the inevitable comparison of him also netting us 5 firsts + a swap. And no one is asking for that here but the valuation has to reflect reality and 95% of what is spouted here in Cam J valuation is not reality.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#42 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:25 pm

I'm comparing them on offense. Defense was the primary reason he got the return he did. Cam offers nothing close to that.

But its okay. Either he doesn't get traded and we are arguing just for fun. Or he does get traded and gets an elite return and I come back and eat my crow or he gets traded for a more reasonable(imo) return and no Nets fans show up to the official trade thread just like they didn't to the Dennis one after claiming he was worth Kuminga and a first. So you win either way.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#43 » by JKiddy » Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:35 pm

Even if we get 2 1sts and an expiring for CamJo I still would rather have him here unless one of those 1sts turns into a stud. He is signed here to an incredible contract fairly longterm. I want him here when we rebuild with the next group. He is a key cog in what is to come. I hope BK keeps him.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#44 » by AmusingFiddle » Fri Dec 27, 2024 6:30 pm

He is worth a late FRP or a lotto protected FRP at most (nothing more). I highly doubt anyone pays more.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#45 » by JKiddy » Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:20 pm

AmusingFiddle vs. the NBA and 98% of REALGM! I am here for it!
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#46 » by DarkXaero » Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:57 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I'm comparing them on offense. Defense was the primary reason he got the return he did. Cam offers nothing close to that.

But its okay. Either he doesn't get traded and we are arguing just for fun. Or he does get traded and gets an elite return and I come back and eat my crow or he gets traded for a more reasonable(imo) return and no Nets fans show up to the official trade thread just like they didn't to the Dennis one after claiming he was worth Kuminga and a first. So you win either way.
Hate to break it to you but Mikal's defense last season was worse than Cam J's defense this year. And interestingly, he hasn't fared well defensively for the Knicks either, although he's getting better but nowhere near the form that he had in Phoenix. Mikal played 82 games of bad defense and subpar offense, and still got 5 picks + a swap. Mikal got the return that he did for three reasons:

1) His archetype is very valuable in this league (same as CJ)
2) Villanova connection
3) Bargain contract

As for Schroder being worth Kuminga and a first, I think like one Nets fan made that claim? Very disingenuous to extrapolate that to the entire fanbase here.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#47 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Dec 27, 2024 8:05 pm

Odd to claim Mikal was bad on defense now that he's no longer a Net, but I assure you if the Knicks believed he was a worse defender than Cam Johnson they would have paid far less and traded for Cam and not him.

They wouldn't pay 3x as much for a worse player just because he went to Villanova.

Spoiler:
Bridges is a better player/defender than Cam obviously. Just doesn't wear the right jersey now.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#48 » by DarkXaero » Fri Dec 27, 2024 9:29 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Odd to claim Mikal was bad on defense now that he's no longer a Net, but I assure you if the Knicks believed he was a worse defender than Cam Johnson they would have paid far less and traded for Cam and not him.

They wouldn't pay 3x as much for a worse player just because he went to Villanova.

Spoiler:
Bridges is a better player/defender than Cam obviously. Just doesn't wear the right jersey now.
What are you talking about? Please go back and see what the Nets fans had to say about Mikal's play and his defense last year. If you saw anyone speaking highly of his defense last year, that'd be news to me. Simultaneously, his defensive metrics declined. And the Villanova connection matters because the Knicks' best player (Brunson) lobbied for it, along with Hart & DDV (who is no longer there).

Mikal is a better player than Cam J but Cam J is having the better season right now, that's also pretty obvious.
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#49 » by Mr Peanut » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:26 am

How much value would the Pistons have to add to Tobias Harris to bring back Cam Johnson in a trade?
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Re: What is Cam Johnson’s value? 

Post#50 » by Papi_swav » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:45 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:I dont get the "putting up good numbers on a bad team" narrative. CamJ is not that type of player, he's a rhythm player that goes with the flow and feeds off other great players. Cam Thomas is the type of player that puts up good numbers on bad teams because he can take all the shots he want and he's a 1on1 type of player anyway. Cam Johnson is not, he takes efficient shots and is not a chucker like Cam Thomas and others, so for him to be putting up these kinds of stats and efficiency on a bad team like this is impressive and teams should take notice.

He's leading the way for the nets right now even though they are not a good team he's still making smart decisions in game on both sides of the ball. It's fair to say that he has improved his game and yes he is having a career year right now but it's not on a contract year which most players seem to want to ball out, he still has 2 years left after this year. I think 2 firsts is a start, like others have said maybe a good first with light protections and a swap or heavily protected 1st. He's the type of player that can fit literally on any team


You are right. But its like with Mikal. Mikal was getting first option touches and so his counting totals went up. Cam's volume is higher in Brooklyn than it is likely to be with a contender. That's the part of the numbers people should be talking about.

His offensive fit on good teams though should be super obvious.

yea but his efficiency has gone up too. Yea as a 1st option the stats should go up but usually efficiency and shooting percentages goes down. But in CamJ case everything has gone up which means he's become a better player. He's doing this as a 1st option on a bad team and still putting up great percentages and TS%. He's doing better now than Mikal has done for us last year and he got 5 first round picks. I'm not saying CamJ deserves 5 picks but he's definitely worth the 2 at least.

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