Spurs/Bulls

[Texas Chuck]

With word that the Bulls will accept 2nd rounders for Vuc, the Spurs should come a calling

Collins
25 CHI 2nd returned
Best 26 2nd SAS owns(way too complicated to list lol)

for

Vuc

Chicago gets what should be two solid 2nds and gets back a playable big.

Spurs upgrade their big next to Wemby. Keeps you a talented center on the court at all times and you can steal minutes with them playing together. Costs them essentially nothing in flexibility or assets for a neat little upgrade to see if they can't get Wemby some playoff experience.

[brackdan70]

I like it. My only qualm is the Spurs should be looking at a 3-5 year horizon ( and longer), but getting some playoff experience probably would fit that.

[Godaddycurse]

i tried this before (collins + 2 seconds) and bulls fans demanded more. They want an expiring + seconds instead or something. I think OP makes sense though

[Texas Chuck]

i tried this before and bulls fans demanded more

Sorry, wasn't trying to steal your idea. But was going with the recent reports of the actual Bulls asking price coming down and these are real 2nds. Maybe they get a desperate team to give them a protected first? Don't think that should be San Antonio though so if they can get that, the Spurs should move on.

[Godaddycurse]

i tried this before and bulls fans demanded more

Sorry, wasn't trying to steal your idea. But was going with the recent reports of the actual Bulls asking price coming down and these are real 2nds. Maybe they get a desperate team to give them a protected first? Don't think that should be San Antonio though so if they can get that, the Spurs should move on.

not at all mine was part of a bigger trade where spurs got someone else. Vuc at this price makes a lot of sense for them and i like it alot for both teams, but bulls fans (probably rightfully so) are aiming a tad higher.

[wemby]

I'm not in a hurry to make a push this year, but this is fine. In general terms as long as the cost is low and it doesn't hurt future flexibility (beyond the 26 free agency where Spurs could be big players) then I'm ok.

[wemby]

I like it. My only qualm is the Spurs should be looking at a 3-5 year horizon ( and longer), but getting some playoff experience probably would fit that.

If we're talking major assets then yes, I wouldn't pay first rounders for a short term fix. But if we're talking a couple second rounders, given how **** Spurs second rounders have been as of late (punting good seconds or drafting busts except for Tre Jones) then I'm a lot less picky.

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure reports that the Bulls accepting a second for Vuc contemplate them eating a bad contract, and that's what Collins is on. I'm guessing the Bulls insist on getting their pick back, and if they'll be starting Collins after this, the Spurs shouldn't fight them too hard.

[wemby]

I'm not sure reports that the Bulls accepting a second for Vuc contemplate them eating a bad contract, and that's what Collins is on. I'm guessing the Bulls insist on getting their pick back, and if they'll be starting Collins after this, the Spurs shouldn't fight them too hard.

They're not 'eating' lots of money though, both Vucevic and Zach Collins have contracts running one more season beyond this one and Zach Collins makes 3/4 million less per year. For a team in their situation that doesn't seem like a big deal. But it's true that they might prefer 2 SRPs and expirings over a contract that runs one more year like Vucevic's.

However, if Bulls ask for their own first round pick back, Spurs choke with laughter before hanging up. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue into how the Spurs FO thinks.

[Texas Chuck]

yeah we can't say a team is eating money when they move out more money than comes in. A point I feel like I am making too often on this board.

Now as Wemby points out if a team will give them pure expiring contracts and similar picks they should prefer that. Or maybe even expiring money and worse picks or no picks if that's their priority. But it shouldn't be their priority, right?

And who are the other suitors? The Lakers? They are going to ask Chicago to take salary back. Now might they say we have longer contracts and so we'll give you a heavily protected first if you will take them? Okay Chicago should consider that if they offer it.

But they aren't taking on money here. They are shedding it. The picks are for the talent difference.

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure reports that the Bulls accepting a second for Vuc contemplate them eating a bad contract, and that's what Collins is on. I'm guessing the Bulls insist on getting their pick back, and if they'll be starting Collins after this, the Spurs shouldn't fight them too hard.

They're not 'eating' lots of money though, both Vucevic and Zach Collins have contracts running one more season beyond this one and Zach Collins makes 3/4 million less per year. For a team in their situation that doesn't seem like a big deal. But it's true that they might prefer 2 SRPs and expirings over a contract that runs one more year like Vucevic's.

However, if Bulls ask for their own first round pick back, Spurs choke with laughter before hanging up. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue into how the Spurs FO thinks.

If the Bulls start Collins at center, that pick isn't conveying. Obviously, i have Collins as straight negative on that deal as to where Vuc is nuetral to slightly positive. That's my evaluation.

[jbk1234]

yeah we can't say a team is eating money when they move out more money than comes in. A point I feel like I am making too often on this board.

Now as Wemby points out if a team will give them pure expiring contracts and similar picks they should prefer that. Or maybe even expiring money and worse picks or no picks if that's their priority. But it shouldn't be their priority, right?

And who are the other suitors? The Lakers? They are going to ask Chicago to take salary back. Now might they say we have longer contracts and so we'll give you a heavily protected first if you will take them? Okay Chicago should consider that if they offer it.

But they aren't taking on money here. They are shedding it. The picks are for the talent difference.

It really comes down to what you think it would cost the Spurs to dump Collins for an expiring. I have this as more in line with the PJ Washington for Grant Williams deal.

[wemby]

If the Bulls start Collins at center, that pick isn't conveying. Obviously, i have Collins as straight negative on that deal as to where Vuc is nuetral to slightly positive. That's my evaluation.

That pick is protected for THREE YEARS, not just this one. The last 2 is top 8 protected. I don't think Bulls history suggets they'd be ok with a 3 year tank. Also, even if you think Collins is dead money then 2 good SRPs sounds good for shedding a bit of money plus a couple good seconds for a 'neutral to slightly positive' player.

[ChettheJet]

Collins comes in and probably spits time with Smith at center, either one starting depending on what the bench mob looks like, if Smith progresses maybe he takes over.

2nd round picks don't seem sexy but for a team like the Bulls who don't have any in stock they are an attractive offer.

I'd do this and see what a Lavine trade looks like next

[Chinook]

I don't think the Spurs center situation is about them lacking talent in the same way that Sochan starting over Jones last year had nothing to do with the Spurs having no PG. Jones got in and was immediately an average starter for the rest of the season, but a lot of people would be desperate to pay for any point guard.

The Spurs play Sochan and to a lesser extent Barnes at center because that's what they think allows them to play their best players the most minute. Sochan functionally plays a ton of center with Wemby because of how teams guard Victor on offense and to free up Victor on defense. It also helps Sochan to play with four smalls, and despite his shooting struggles, he's been having a very good year so far.

Collins and Bassey have both been pretty decent this year in the minutes they've gotten. Bass in particular puts up very good numbers in the minutes he gets. Could they find a better backup center? Yes. Would Bassey be in the rotation for other teams? Yes again. Victor is playing minutes in the mid- to high-30s nowadays. Investing in an upgrade to the back-up five is investing in a bit player. If that center is extremely mobile and able to both fill the five and the four at a high level, that would be one thing. But otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of players folks think would be huge helps to the Spurs also being glued to the bench.

[One_and_Done]

The value isn't exactly off. The problem is that the Spurs have a 5, and don't want to disrupt Wemby playing his natural position. That means Vuc is a pure bench player for them. I just don't think spending that much on a back up 5 is a great idea, but moreover there are teams who would start Vuc and those teams will assuredly give more value.