Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[Infinity2152]

I'd say Ball's injury and contract have been by far the biggest thing keeping the Bulls from improving the last three years. He could have medically retired and didn't, so we paid. We haven't even gotten him off our books yet. We have another forward signed up for years (Pat Will) who has significant injury history in his short 4 years. If we add MPJ and he has another season long injury or more, that's a $40+ mill hit for years, not $20 mill like Ball's. Bulls have the worst injury luck, and MPJ's only subjectively worth his contract even when healthy. If healthy Zach is overpaid, so is healthy MPJ at $38 mill for a number 3 player on a contending team.

Trading one overpaid "injury prone" player with years left for another less skilled overpaid "injury prone" player with years left to get a first round pick 7 years from now, really?

Better options with Zach:

1. Use in trade for a disgruntled star that's better. Talent increases, cap stays about the same.
2. Keep Zach. Talent and cap stay the same. Zach could be off the books as soon as next year, or traded as expiring. Player option in 2026, lots of players decline those.
3. Trade Zach for expirings, young talent, picks. Talent goes down, cap space increases a lot, young talent incoming.

[jnrjr79]

The big question about an MPJ trade is what we could get for MPJ. If you could trade him for two maller contracts and coring at the same time and a 1st then you have to pull the trigger.

IMO MPJ's deal will be harder to move than Zach. He is making similar money and offers lower production. You might be able to trade him for a couple expirings, but doubtfully for a 1st.

Maybe. He doesnt have the stigma Zach has had.

Shooting is also the greatest need in the league.

Zach is a better shooter on greater volume, so this would be a factor that favors Zach, not MPJ.

[Chi town]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

[Infinity2152]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

Don't think Denver wants/needs any Detroit players over MPJ.
Denver still has to clear $43 mill to take Zach in, which is the player they would want. Nnaji, who the Bulls don't want would still have to go out and stay in Detroit. That's about $45 mill. Bulls would need to take much more salary back than just Hardaway Jr (14 mill). Pistons could realistically be sending out in addition some combo of Tobias Harris (32) $25 mill, Isaiah Stewart ($15 mill), Jaden Ivey ($8 mill), Holland (8.2 mill), Jalen Duren (4.5 mill).

Bulls would be starting with some combo of Hardaway Jr and Tobias Harris, or Hardaway Jr, Stewart (hard pass), young player(s)
Pistons get MPJ, Nnaji, maybe cheap Bulls player if they're sending out three, (Torrey Craig?)
Nuggets get Lavine

Bulls would need to get some combo of Duren, multiple firsts, or Ivey to make this deal interesting to the Bulls, I'd hope. We'd also have to waive at least one, probably two players, so that's another loss for us, because we still have to pay them.

[DuckIII]

Nobody said he wasn't injury prone, it's just stupid to use it as a reason when LaVine is just as bad if not worse.

Call me stupid then, because his back is one of several reasons why this potential trade is straight trash. Lavine’s injury history does not negate the chronic back problems of a young maxed player.

Hard, hard pass on any nonsense that sends out Zach for something much, much worse. The only reason this is even out there as a possibility is because we have the worst FO in the NBA and that thinks they can feed us this tripe by calling it “but we got younger soup.”

I'm not advocating for the trade but merely pointing out that health isn't a valid reason when Zach himself has had consistent knee issues since his ACL.

It is valid because the injuries are different.

It's not something worse either, it's essentially the same. The difference in contracts reflects the difference between Zach and MPJ, however it boils down to shuffling deck chairs as both don't do anything for the current Bulls predicament.

I touched on this a little earlier in the thread when this rumor first started to circulate, but in my view it is significantly worse than standing pat with Lavine. There are reasons to trade Lavine, and I advocate for it regularly. It infuriates me that AK has no foresight and that Lavine is even on this roster.

But unless you are trading it to accomplish one of the "good" reasons to trade him - get worse, get contract/cap relief and flexibility, get draft assets - you do not trade Zach. For two reasons: (a) you haven't received any of the benefits of trading him; (b) it validates that his value is still depressed. So you wait.

Would we get worse with MPJ? Yes. Lavine is a substantially better basketball player. But would we "get worse" in the sense of locking up our pick and perhaps even increasing its value to top 5? Absolutely not. The East is a wasteland of talent after the top 5 teams and replacing Zach with MPJ keeps us in the mix. Which, by the way, is exactly what AK wants despite how he would sell this horse **** as a rebuilding/getting younger move.

So really the only potential benefit on paper is highly questionable and, in my view, flat out won't happen to any meaningful degree. The East is a race to the bottom and this trade doesn't really press the gas pedal.

Then there is a collateral upside to trading Lavine that this deal would negate: evaluating Coby, Ayo and Pat in a scenario in which they are required to carry the scoring the load, and developing Matas at an aggressive rate. MPJ collides unnecessarily with all of that.

[Chi town]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

Don't think Denver wants/needs any Detroit players over MPJ.
Denver still has to clear $43 mill to take Zach in, which is the player they would want. Nnaji, who the Bulls don't want would still have to go out and stay in Detroit. Bulls would need to take much more salary back than just Hardaway Jr (14 mill). Pistons could realistically be sending out in addition some combo of Tobias Harris (32) $25 mill, Isaiah Stewart ($15 mill), Jaden Ivey ($8 mill), Holland (8.2 mill), Jalen Duren (4.5 mill).

Bulls would be starting with some combo of Hardaway Jr and Tobias Harris, or Hardaway Jr, Stewart (hard pass), young player(s)
Pistons get MPJ, Nnaji, maybe cheap Bulls player if they're sending out three, (Torrey Craig?)
Nuggets get Lavine

Bulls would need to get some combo of Duren, multiple firsts, or Ivey to make this deal interesting to the Bulls, I'd hope. We'd also have to waive at least one, probably two players, so that's another loss for us, because we still have to pay them.

DEN wouldnt be getting DET players.

CHI IN: 14M space, THJ, Nnaji, Strawher, Future 1st

DET: MPJ, Saric

DEN: Lavine Craig Carter

Bulls clear a ton of salary but have to pay for it with Nnaji. Buyout THJ and save even more money.

Bulls could add more for DET to get a better asset.

This trade would require filler to make it work money wise.

[Infinity2152]

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

Don't think Denver wants/needs any Detroit players over MPJ.
Denver still has to clear $43 mill to take Zach in, which is the player they would want. Nnaji, who the Bulls don't want would still have to go out and stay in Detroit. Bulls would need to take much more salary back than just Hardaway Jr (14 mill). Pistons could realistically be sending out in addition some combo of Tobias Harris (32) $25 mill, Isaiah Stewart ($15 mill), Jaden Ivey ($8 mill), Holland (8.2 mill), Jalen Duren (4.5 mill).

Bulls would be starting with some combo of Hardaway Jr and Tobias Harris, or Hardaway Jr, Stewart (hard pass), young player(s)
Pistons get MPJ, Nnaji, maybe cheap Bulls player if they're sending out three, (Torrey Craig?)
Nuggets get Lavine

Bulls would need to get some combo of Duren, multiple firsts, or Ivey to make this deal interesting to the Bulls, I'd hope. We'd also have to waive at least one, probably two players, so that's another loss for us, because we still have to pay them.

DEN wouldnt be getting DET players.

CHI IN: 14M space, THJ, Nnaji, Strawher, Future 1st

DET: MPJ, Saric

DEN: Lavine Craig Carter

Bulls clear a ton of salary but have to pay for it with Nnaji. Buyout THJ and save even more money.

Bulls could add more for DET to get a better asset.

This trade would require filler to make it work money wise.

Reason trade hasn't happened already is because the Bulls don't want Nnaji, reportedly. So not looking at scenarios where Detroit doesn't have to keep Nnaji, unless that stance changes. This deal also has Denver eating Carter's contract and sending out Saric, Strawther and a first, which is a pretty significant increase to Denver. If Denver is willing to give up all that, we'd probably have MPJ right now, as much as I don't want him.

Bulls return in your deal: Nnaji, a contract they don't want, Strawther and a pick 7 years from now for Zach Lavine. And some cap space, some of which is already eaten by Nnaji's guaranteed contract.

[Chi town]

Don't think Denver wants/needs any Detroit players over MPJ.
Denver still has to clear $43 mill to take Zach in, which is the player they would want. Nnaji, who the Bulls don't want would still have to go out and stay in Detroit. Bulls would need to take much more salary back than just Hardaway Jr (14 mill). Pistons could realistically be sending out in addition some combo of Tobias Harris (32) $25 mill, Isaiah Stewart ($15 mill), Jaden Ivey ($8 mill), Holland (8.2 mill), Jalen Duren (4.5 mill).

Bulls would be starting with some combo of Hardaway Jr and Tobias Harris, or Hardaway Jr, Stewart (hard pass), young player(s)
Pistons get MPJ, Nnaji, maybe cheap Bulls player if they're sending out three, (Torrey Craig?)
Nuggets get Lavine

Bulls would need to get some combo of Duren, multiple firsts, or Ivey to make this deal interesting to the Bulls, I'd hope. We'd also have to waive at least one, probably two players, so that's another loss for us, because we still have to pay them.

DEN wouldnt be getting DET players.

CHI IN: 14M space, THJ, Nnaji, Strawher, Future 1st

DET: MPJ, Saric

DEN: Lavine Craig Carter

Bulls clear a ton of salary but have to pay for it with Nnaji. Buyout THJ and save even more money.

Bulls could add more for DET to get a better asset.

This trade would require filler to make it work money wise.

Reason trade hasn't happened already is because the Bulls don't want Nnaji, reportedly. So not looking at scenarios where Detroit doesn't have to keep Nnaji, unless that stance changes. This deal also has Denver eating Carter's contract and sending out Saric, Strawther and a first, which is a pretty significant increase to Denver. If Denver is willing to give up all that, we'd probably have MPJ right now, as much as I don't want him.

Bulls return in your deal: Nnaji, a contract they don't want, Strawther and a pick 7 years from now for Zach Lavine. And some cap space, some of which is already eaten by Nnaji's guaranteed contract.

Zach can not get us an expiring or he’d be gone by now. What JR cares about the most is Money. Getting 14M in saving this year and saving 40M the next two years on Zach’s deal works for his math.

Ideally we would add something like the POR pick, Terry or Phillips to DET to get Ausar or Holland who have the higher ceiling.

Carter would be in the rotation for DEN and be a shooter and pesky defender playing off Jokic and next to Westbrick. DEN needs depth. They get 3 vets for MPJ and a second year player getting 20mpg.

Murray/Carter
Lavine/Westbrook
Braun/
Craig/Watson
Jokic/Jordan

[Dez]

That's exactly the point. One of the main knocks on Lavine is "injury prone". If MPJ is equally "injury prone", what do you gain trading for him? The age difference keeps being brought up an advantage, main advantage of being younger is less injuries/healthier. Take that away, why would anybody want MPJ over Zach?

MPJ had serious injury issues even before he entered the league. Isn't that why he dropped in the draft in the first place? He's had at least three back surgeries already, he looks healthy enough now, but long term? Almost every player with multiple back surgeries has retired early.

Nobody said he wasn't injury prone, it's just stupid to use it as a reason when LaVine is just as bad if not worse.

Except Lavine has played in about 100 more games in the last 7 seasons than MPJ. But other than that...lol

Are you being paid to defend Zach from anything that isn't glowing praise? It's getting to Lauri homer levels.

24, 63, 60, 58, 67, 77, 25, 27* - 374 games of a possible 574 in 7 completed seasons (65%).

0, 55, 61, 9, 62, 81, 29* - 296 games out of a possible 492 in 6 completed seasons (60%).

So even being held out in his rookie season by the Nuggets MPJ has only appeared in 5% less games than Zach.

This math was done at 6am with a sleeping infant in one arm and 4 hours sleep so forgive me if it's incorrect or I missed something.

[Infinity2152]

DEN wouldnt be getting DET players.

CHI IN: 14M space, THJ, Nnaji, Strawher, Future 1st

DET: MPJ, Saric

DEN: Lavine Craig Carter

Bulls clear a ton of salary but have to pay for it with Nnaji. Buyout THJ and save even more money.

Bulls could add more for DET to get a better asset.

This trade would require filler to make it work money wise.

Reason trade hasn't happened already is because the Bulls don't want Nnaji, reportedly. So not looking at scenarios where Detroit doesn't have to keep Nnaji, unless that stance changes. This deal also has Denver eating Carter's contract and sending out Saric, Strawther and a first, which is a pretty significant increase to Denver. If Denver is willing to give up all that, we'd probably have MPJ right now, as much as I don't want him.

Bulls return in your deal: Nnaji, a contract they don't want, Strawther and a pick 7 years from now for Zach Lavine. And some cap space, some of which is already eaten by Nnaji's guaranteed contract.

Zach can not get us an expiring or he’d be gone by now. What JR cares about the most is Money. Getting 14M in saving this year and saving 40M the next two years on Zach’s deal works for his math.

Ideally we would add something like the POR pick, Terry or Phillips to DET to get Ausar or Holland who have the higher ceiling.

Carter would be in the rotation for DEN and be a shooter and pesky defender playing off Jokic and next to Westbrick. DEN needs depth. They get 3 vets for MPJ and a second year player getting 20mpg.

Murray/Carter
Lavine/Westbrook
Braun/
Craig/Watson
Jokic/Jordan

Haven't seen ANYTHING that would suggest the Bulls would be willing to move Zach for expirings. Nowhere. If they cared that much about money, they wouldn't have re-signed Pat and Vuc to their contracts. Think people sometimes overstate how cheap the Bulls are, they're always at least near the cap. And overestimate how much the Bulls feel they NEED to trade Lavine. The Bulls can easily have a large amount of cap space this summer without even trading Lavine.

Nuggets have Russell Westbrook and Jamal Murray, who pretty much only play PG. They have Jalen pickett, Trey Alexander, Peyton Watson and Christian Braun at guard. Now add Lavine. Carter is most definitely not getting minutes over Russell, Murray, Lavine, or Braun. And Carter can only play PG. Stop acting like Carter's suddenly not considered a bad contract, based on his last two years production and his option next year.

Watson is 6'7, 200, SF at best, he's usually listed at guard and doesn't rebound. Torrey Craig is 6'5", backup SF on most teams at best. Nuggets are giving up three players that can play PF (Saric, Nnaji, MPJ) for two guards and Craig, while Aaron Gordon has already missed 10 games to injury and just got injured again the other night. Plus a first round pick and their very recent first round pick.

[Muzbar]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

Denver has no seconds... they only have their 2031 FRP to trade (other than useless swaps).

[Muzbar]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

MPJ doesn't fit into their available capspace + THJ, not quite. But if they add Fontecchio then you're golden, but I think you'd still have to incentivise Det to take on that contract (so picks or a young player... Strawther?)

[jnrjr79]

Nobody said he wasn't injury prone, it's just stupid to use it as a reason when LaVine is just as bad if not worse.

Except Lavine has played in about 100 more games in the last 7 seasons than MPJ. But other than that...lol

Are you being paid to defend Zach from anything that isn't glowing praise? It's getting to Lauri homer levels.

24, 63, 60, 58, 67, 77, 25, 27* - 374 games of a possible 574 in 7 completed seasons (65%).

0, 55, 61, 9, 62, 81, 29* - 296 games out of a possible 492 in 6 completed seasons (60%).

So even being held out in his rookie season by the Nuggets MPJ has only appeared in 5% less games than Zach.

This math was done at 6am with a sleeping infant in one arm and 4 hours sleep so forgive me if it's incorrect or I missed something.

You said Lavine was “just as bad if not worse” in terms of injury history, then posted stats showing Zach was slightly better in terms of injury history, so…

I think what people miss in this discussion is the *nature* of the injuries. Zach has sustained injuries that don’t tend to recur. MPJ has a chronic back condition. These things are not equal, so while both have missed similar time historically, there is very likely more reason to worry about MPJ long-term.

[Infinity2152]

Except Lavine has played in about 100 more games in the last 7 seasons than MPJ. But other than that...lol

Are you being paid to defend Zach from anything that isn't glowing praise? It's getting to Lauri homer levels.

24, 63, 60, 58, 67, 77, 25, 27* - 374 games of a possible 574 in 7 completed seasons (65%).

0, 55, 61, 9, 62, 81, 29* - 296 games out of a possible 492 in 6 completed seasons (60%).

So even being held out in his rookie season by the Nuggets MPJ has only appeared in 5% less games than Zach.

This math was done at 6am with a sleeping infant in one arm and 4 hours sleep so forgive me if it's incorrect or I missed something.

You said Lavine was “just as bad if not worse” in terms of injury history, then posted stats showing Zach was slightly better in terms of injury history, so…

I think what people miss in this discussion is the *nature* of the injuries. Zach has sustained injuries that don’t tend to recur. MPJ has a chronic back condition. These things are not equal, so while both have missed similar time historically, there is very likely more reason to worry about MPJ long-term.

Probably should have used 6 seasons since MPJ hasn't been in 7 full seasons. Over the last 6 seasons since MPJ has been in the league, Zach is at 350/492, or 71%. Much better than 60%. Even if you want to count 2017, the year before MPJ came in the league, MPJ was injured (back) in the season opener at college and was out until March, only played 3 games.

[Chi town]

Zach + Craig for Porter Jr. + Nanaji + DaRon Holmes (+ a 1st and a couple of seconds) works, and probably would be my floor for a trade where Porter Jr. is the big piece coming back. Putting Holmes in there at least adds some potential.

Honestly, I’d probably try to route Porter Jr. elsewhere - Bulls already have enough weak-D players and can’t really handle another, and I would guess that there is at least one team out there who would view Porter Jr. as a good fit for their situation and give mid assets back. I think you would be stuck with Nnaji, though.

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

MPJ doesn't fit into their available capspace + THJ, not quite. But if they add Fontecchio then you're golden, but I think you'd still have to incentivise Det to take on that contract (so picks or a young player... Strawther?)

I dont think so at all. They need shooting and MPJ fits their youth timeline as a stretch wing. They won’t be signing anyone with their cap space better than MPJ. Last summer their big prize was Tobias. No FA better than MPJ will be going there.

DET should be giving up as asset to get MPJ not just space. Maybe as small as Sasser.

[Muzbar]

I think MPJ fits in DET for THJ and their 14M space. They won’t sign a better FA than MPJ. He’s a wing shooter they need for Cade and Ivey.

What asset would they add?

What could Bulls add to the package to DET to get a better asset?

MPJ doesn't fit into their available capspace + THJ, not quite. But if they add Fontecchio then you're golden, but I think you'd still have to incentivise Det to take on that contract (so picks or a young player... Strawther?)

I dont think so at all. They need shooting and MPJ fits their youth timeline as a stretch wing. They won’t be signing anyone with their cap space better than MPJ. Last summer their big prize was Tobias. No FA better than MPJ will be going there.

DET should be giving up as asset to get MPJ not just space. Maybe as small as Sasser.

Detroit are a team betting on their youth panning out and being the core of their team, they won't be looking to add big time FA's, IMO.

Tobias Harris was a perfect fit for that team and has helped them this season. I agree that MPJ would actually be good for them but he eats up a TON of capspace for the next 3 years and has somewhat of an injury history. I don't think they'd have to give up an asset as capspace/expiring contracts are probably worth more than a player with 3 years remaining at 36-40m each year.

Either way, I'm still sceptical that Zach is even traded.

[Stratmaster]

Nobody said he wasn't injury prone, it's just stupid to use it as a reason when LaVine is just as bad if not worse.

Except Lavine has played in about 100 more games in the last 7 seasons than MPJ. But other than that...lol

Are you being paid to defend Zach from anything that isn't glowing praise? It's getting to Lauri homer levels.

24, 63, 60, 58, 67, 77, 25, 27* - 374 games of a possible 574 in 7 completed seasons (65%).

0, 55, 61, 9, 62, 81, 29* - 296 games out of a possible 492 in 6 completed seasons (60%).

So even being held out in his rookie season by the Nuggets MPJ has only appeared in 5% less games than Zach.

This math was done at 6am with a sleeping infant in one arm and 4 hours sleep so forgive me if it's incorrect or I missed something.

No. I am paid to call out ridiculous statements. It's just that most of them over the past few seasons are about Zach Lavine. Like I said. Lavine has played about 100 more games over Tha 7 seasons MPJ has been in the league. Good on you for cherry-picking the extra year. You have 8 seasons listed for Lavine.

Regardless, even with your numbers, your position doesn't hold water.

[weneeda2guard]

Lavine to the Lakers is probably dead now

[leo921]

I like the idea of either

Lavine for MPJ/Nnaji/2031 1st

or a 3 team trade

Lavine to Nuggets
MPJ/Nnaji to Pistons
Hardaway/Stewart/Thompson to Bulls

Lavine can star in his role playing off Jokic and help the team now and in playoffs
MPJ would look great on Pistons spacing the floor for Cade/Ivey
Hardaway is expiring, Once Vuc is traded Smith/Stewart is a solid center rotation,
Thompson is the prize of the trade for the Bulls.

[Dez]

Except Lavine has played in about 100 more games in the last 7 seasons than MPJ. But other than that...lol

Are you being paid to defend Zach from anything that isn't glowing praise? It's getting to Lauri homer levels.

24, 63, 60, 58, 67, 77, 25, 27* - 374 games of a possible 574 in 7 completed seasons (65%).

0, 55, 61, 9, 62, 81, 29* - 296 games out of a possible 492 in 6 completed seasons (60%).

So even being held out in his rookie season by the Nuggets MPJ has only appeared in 5% less games than Zach.

This math was done at 6am with a sleeping infant in one arm and 4 hours sleep so forgive me if it's incorrect or I missed something.

No. I am paid to call out ridiculous statements. It's just that most of them over the past few seasons are about Zach Lavine. Like I said. Lavine has played about 100 more games over Tha 7 seasons MPJ has been in the league. Good on you for cherry-picking the extra year. You have 8 seasons listed for Lavine.

Regardless, even with your numbers, your position doesn't hold water.

Well given that MPJ has only been around for 6 completed seasons that isn't surprising.

I used Lavine's Bulls career and only 7 seasons because that's the number you pulled out, I didn't count this season for either player because it's not a completed season999.

I'm staggered that you can't accept the fact that Lavine is injury prone.