Is SGA an underrated scorer or was Kobe overrated?

[UcanUwill]

Kobe is the most overrated greatest player of all time. I know he's an all time great but so many folks put him in the GOAT convo when he's actually right outside the top 10 of all time. Hope that's not seen as a knock as I understand Kobe's greatness.

Nobody says he's a goat candidate other than superfans

Yes, I think overall Kobe is not overrated, most people have him around top 10 spot, which is fair, he was icon and won 5 titles. But Kobe as said many times, has the most delusional following, and his followers really believe he is GOAT candidate. It is easy to call Kobe overrated just because of how vocal and crazy his church is, but we need to acknowledge that its a loud minority that does not represent the overall picture.

That said, comparing 2000s scoring numbers to today's scoring numbers is quite disingenuous. Scoring is just different now, pacing is completely different and the game is far easier for these super talents. Officiating is also different. Like look and Brandon Roy's stats, if you looked at his stats, you would probably think Zach Lavine is better than Brandon Roy, but obviously it ain't true. Shot selection was always Kobe's biggest flaw, he would shoot his team out of the game quote often even, but he played in an era where two bigs on the floor were non shooters most of the time, you could send helps and cover these guards completely differently, the fact he was scoring 30 a game 20 years ago is frankly insane. Kobe would put stupid numbers if he played in todays world with 5 out pace and space teammates.

[The Laker Kid]

Every player has been compared to Kobe. Today it's SGA, tomorrow it will be Anthony Edwards. He's been the measuring stick since 2000. That's greatness.

[Anticon]

Shai is highly under profiled, not underrated.

First team all NBA two years running. But what he does on the course doesn't get the profile it merits.

[DOT]

Kobe **** hard on SGA and it's not even close. Stop looking at stats today's game isn't comparable in anyway to the league Kobe played in.

Go and look at SGA stats in the tournament finals when the refs swallowed their whistles. That **** OKC team would barely get to 90ppg on a good day with 2000s refs. He's nothing near Kobe.


Even geriatric Lebron averages 20+ now, the offensive stats in the league mean nothing now. Prime Kobe would rip this league up for 40ppg on good efficiency for free

This year teams are taking 22.0 free throws a game, pace adjusted it's .193 FT/FGA

Lowest in the 2000-2010 era was 2002 where teams averaged 23.8 free throws a game, pace adjusted it was .221 FT/FGA

Objectively speaking, players took more free throws in the 2000s than they did now. And it's not an aberration, it's about where it's been for years.

Also, Kobe for his career averaged 7.4 free throws a game, SGA is averaging 6.8. Pace adjusted, Kobe averaged 10.7 per100 possessions, SGA 9.8. This is easy data to find, but it doesn't fit the narratives.

[Lalouie]

SGA is a little underrated, but he's also working on only his 3rd season doing it at this volume, and doesn't have the playoff resume quite yet.

Kobe... was very good. And I think some of his raw numbers were suppressed early on in his 20s because he was playing next to Shaq, and that's generally the time in a guy's career where he posts his best numbers. I think he wasn't as good a shooter as Shai and that his shot selection exacerbated the problem because he dwelled deeply in an older, archaic mentality with respect to his approach to the game.

Between the two? Hard to tall. Shai is obviously a better FT shooter and a better 3pt shooter. He uses the long two like a third as much as Kobe did, and that was a 40% shot for Bryant, whereas Shai smashes the short middie at rates Kobe never could have. I think it reinforces that his ground game is fairly focused and he's working to get to his specific spots a lot, and that he's trying not to take those long twos and just step back for the three when he's that far. And he's pretty good at getting to the rim and all that.

Is he better overall? I dunno. Maybe. I'd love to have seen Kobe in todays environment. But yeah, I think Shai's a little more focused on doing it the best way, and not just doing it HIS way, plus he's a better shooter, so that helps.

maybe today's nba game is overrated

the context is the league 3pt fga has doubled since kobe's era

Honestly, this is a useless remark. Kobe took 4.1 3PA/g on his career; Shai takes 3.6. 3pt shooting volume isn't relevant to a comparison of these two as scorers. The fact that Shai's a career 85.4% FT shooter who has shot 90.5 and 87.4% the past two years and is posting 88% now is a much bigger deal. Kobe was a career 83.7% shooter who posted 85%+ 4 times (5, if you count his 6-game season) and never shot over 86.8%. He was very good, but not as good. And then of course, Shai's mid-range shot is a very different animal. If there was going to be a difference, it would center around ability to reach the paint. Kobe got to the rim about as frequently by proportion as does Shai, and that was back then. And he shot 63.7%, which was pretty good in-era. That would improve in today's game, and probably by 5 or 6%, maybe more. That could make a difference in his overall picture as a player in today's environment.

But league 3PA don't mean anything when the two guys are taking a comparable volume of 3PA/g.

We know that Shai is a better shooter who stands out more relative to his peers. We know that Kobe liked to take shots he shouldn't have done, but also that he would have had an easier time of things in today's environment. It's a tough call and an interesting comparison. Kobe is a dude who has fanatical support that is often at odds with his actual play, but he was also still a scintillating talent. And it's interesting to ponder how he might have developed 20 years into the future, coming up watching guys play differently than when he came up watching MJ and so forth. The ideas and theories of how to be good influencing him in different ways at a young age and all that. If he played as he played in the 2000s, then Shai would definitely be better, but Kobe wasn't as inelastic as some believe, to be fair.

I knew someone would say that. my 3pt remark while not statistically relevant,,, the massive increase in 3's reflects the attitude of the evolution of the game's offense. however, be that as it may, the underrated overrated position is a reflection of an apt perspective and that is, kobe won and sga hasn't won YET.

all winners are overrated by the naysayers and they pull out the numbers to prove it. what they don't do is address the hard point that kobe WON. and concomitantly players like sga are yes "underrated", and they will continue to be because the end game is always winning the ring - that justifies everything. part of the underrated perception is sga is little known(by the public) and he is little known because he hasn't won a thing

[Myth]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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His career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) was slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+) and he won 5 titles and made 7 Finals. Plus, the Lakers were consistently one of the very best passing teams in the league, ranking #1 or #2 in team passing rating from 2000 through 2011. These are objective facts, but you people are deranged. Stop sippin on that haterade.

What a coincidence, I have Kobe slightly behind Bird in all time rankings. Point being, nobody is saying Kobe is bad. He is one of the best players of all time, but people who consider him a GOAT candidate are overrating him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Kobe **** hard on SGA and it's not even close. Stop looking at stats today's game isn't comparable in anyway to the league Kobe played in.

Go and look at SGA stats in the tournament finals when the refs swallowed their whistles. That **** OKC team would barely get to 90ppg on a good day with 2000s refs. He's nothing near Kobe.


Even geriatric Lebron averages 20+ now, the offensive stats in the league mean nothing now. Prime Kobe would rip this league up for 40ppg on good efficiency for free. You're comparing 5 rings to uhh whatever SGA is

"**** hard on" is a huge stretch lol. We don't even know if Kobe was greater individually, let alone being "not even close". I give Kobe an edge for sure for playing in the more physical era, but I think SGA is also a way higher IQ, less selfish, better all around guy than Kobe.

So my personal assessment is both guys are a similar tier of player. Giving Kobe the benefit of the doubt on playing vs better competition rivals and in a time where guards got banged up nonstop (as to why his efficiency is lower). Both guys will go down as top 10 all time guards, and top 5 all time SG's most likely (Kobe being there now, and assuming SGA continues this level of peak for several more years).

As others are saying, SGA needs to win rings before we say he's BETTER than guys like Kobe with 5 rings that individually were just as great.

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA wanted to play like Kobe and emulated especially his attention to footwork. I bet he would feel honored by the comparison.

[1993Playoffs]

Idk Kobe just seemed more impactful even if he wasn’t as efficient.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Idk Kobe just seemed more impactful even if he wasn’t as efficient.

Game to game not really. But Kobe had such a long 20 year, illustrious career with a ton of iconic shots, including in the playoffs and 5 rings. So it is going to feel that way. SGA talent/stats wise is there with him, but in terms of resume they are just so far apart that it will feel lopsided. Both guys made the MVP tier leap in their 5th seasons, but due to coming from HS Kobe was only 22, SGA 24.

But I think trajectory wise, this is where with SGA it becomes less about big numbers and shifts to winning titles or at least some finals runs the next few years.

[Primedeion]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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His career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) was slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+) and he won 5 titles and made 7 Finals. Plus, the Lakers were consistently one of the very best passing teams in the league, ranking #1 or #2 in team passing rating from 2000 through 2011. These are objective facts, but you people are deranged. Stop sippin on that haterade.

What a coincidence, I have Kobe slightly behind Bird in all time rankings. Point being, nobody is saying Kobe is bad. He is one of the best players of all time, but people who consider him a GOAT candidate are overrating him.

And the people who think his game was about "SelFiShnes" and no "TeAMWorkz" are underrating him. Maybe try reading the nonsense I was responding to before getting your panties in a bunch.

[Asianiac_24]

It’s a different era, relative to the league I’d say they are fairly equal.

[G35]

No, I don't. If I think a bad era was bad, I'm not giving you bonus points for being one of the better players in said era. Bob Cousy was good relative to the 60s, but would not make the league today.

I think relative TS% is a bad stat. You can't just make a flat adjustment like that. If a guy shot 1% above league average in 1957, it doesn't mean he'll be 1% above average today (that's basically impossible).

In the last 3 years Shai is averaging 42.4pp100 on 631 TS% with a 127 Ortg.

From 00-10 Kobe only averaged only 36.9pp100, with a TS% of 558, and an Ortg of only 113. Kobe's career high Ortg is only 115. His career high TS% is 580.

SGA averages as many rebounds per 100, and more assists. SGA can run a low TO offense, which Kobe cannot. SGA is a better defender. It's very clear SGA has already surpassed Kobe, he just needs more longevity.

Who is a better playmaker than Bob Cousy in this era? He invented behind the back dribbling, behind the back shooting. Lead the nba in assists for 8 years. Besides the 13 all star games or 10 first team picks he had a better nickname than anyone today Houdini of the hardwood. Aside from the lack of distance shooting he could make any team in the nba now if prime Cousy was around. We are not in an elite point guard era.

I've seen footage of Cousy, and I doubt he could make a G-League team today. He looks more like a YMCA player than a pro. That doesn't mean we can't honour his legacy, that's what statues and retired numbers are for, but in terms of him playing today? That's just not realistic.

You should be rated based on the limitations of that era.

How great would a lot of players today be if they went back to 1957? No 3pt line would cause 99% of players brains to fritz out. Then not being able to carry or take 3 steps to make a layup. Also you wouldn't have a new pair of shoes for every game, a buffet table before the game or chartered airplane flights.

Today's humans are far more dependent on technology for survival than anytime in history. If you take people from 1700 and take people now and put them in an austere location with only natural elements to use, I will take the people from 1700 because they lived off the land and not off cellphones, internet, and delivery services.....

[ThunderBolt]

Why is the question an “or” question? Couldn’t one think they are both true/false?

[ThunderBolt]

Shai likely won’t ever come anywhere close to scoring 80 in a single game for a lot of reasons. But could hypothetically have a historic run like never scoring less than 30 points in any single playoff game and doing so on insane efficiency regardless of who is guarding him and protecting the rim. It’s one of the reasons I love SGA. He gives you the same output (sometimes more) almost every night. My emotions need and crave consistency after the Westbrook years.

[Bergmaniac]

Why is the question an “or” question? Couldn’t one think they are both true/false?

That's what makes it an effective bait and it worked.

[brackdan70]

Different eras. One has nothing to do with the other.
Neither is true really SGA seems properly rated as was Kobe in his time as a scorer

[bledredwine]

Kobe is an all time great and Shai is not. Shame on you all.

[Cavsfansince84]

Shai's skill set/size/mindset translates better to being a consistently better high volume scorer imo. Kobe played in 7 finals though and won 5 rings so people are going to have a hard time getting past that to discuss them as players until Shai does more in the playoffs. I do think he's almost a shoe in for mvp this year though health willing.

[Lalouie]

Kobe **** hard on SGA and it's not even close. Stop looking at stats today's game isn't comparable in anyway to the league Kobe played in.

Go and look at SGA stats in the tournament finals when the refs swallowed their whistles. That **** OKC team would barely get to 90ppg on a good day with 2000s refs. He's nothing near Kobe.


Even geriatric Lebron averages 20+ now, the offensive stats in the league mean nothing now. Prime Kobe would rip this league up for 40ppg on good efficiency for free. You're comparing 5 rings to uhh whatever SGA is

"**** hard on" is a huge stretch lol. We don't even know if Kobe was greater individually, let alone being "not even close". I give Kobe an edge for sure for playing in the more physical era, but I think SGA is also a way higher IQ, less selfish, better all around guy than Kobe.

So my personal assessment is both guys are a similar tier of player. Giving Kobe the benefit of the doubt on playing vs better competition rivals and in a time where guards got banged up nonstop (as to why his efficiency is lower). Both guys will go down as top 10 all time guards, and top 5 all time SG's most likely (Kobe being there now, and assuming SGA continues this level of peak for several more years).

As others are saying, SGA needs to win rings before we say he's BETTER than guys like Kobe with 5 rings that individually were just as great.

underrated has to do with perception
tim was the most underrated superstar with rings because he was little known - he was not out there and chose not to be
similarly, sga is "not known" and he won't be until he wins a ring. you can blame many things but one reason is the most obvious that you all haven't addressed. sga/okc suffers from lack of visibility. that's what this overrated/underrated thing is all about.

winning a ring validates sga, might also get okc more pt on network television. then he will no longer be underrated. he will start to become "OVERRATED" as all ring winners tend to be. underrated players suffer from anonymity