cupcakesnake wrote:maradro wrote:cupcakesnake wrote:
I think this assumption doesn't really fit with Kobe's actual paying style. The type of star who thrives in a 5-out offense is a ball handling rim attacker/playmaker. Kobe, at his core combined strong movement shooting with a resilient post up game that he could extend out to the elbows. We're not talking about a high-volume driver. The cool thing about Kobe was that he excelled at scoring in cramped spaces. He could destroy his matchup, or slice defenses apart off-the ball and pop into short range jumpers.
He famously emulated MJ, but the reality of that was he emulated MJ's counters, rather than his primary driving action. As a driver, Kobe was very good, but never elite at an all-time level. Super young Kobe attacked the rim with a lot of springs, but statistically that doesn't hold up past age 21. In his prime, Kobe became deadly in the short midrange, but by that time, his rim numbers were very pedestrian.
Kobe putting up stupid numbers in a modern context, would require him expanding his range. He's not Luka, Harden, Lebron, Giannis, there's just no evidence he can destroy you with rim buckets if you just give him space. To me, Kobe game is more like if you combine Demar's midrange game with a 2-point getting version of Steph or Reggie.
I feel people say this kind of stuff about Kobe and Iverson a lot, but in truth, those kinds of players were the guys benefitting from their era by being the toughest shot makers of long 2s. The ability to get that shot against the monster paint defenses of the early 2000s was a huge part of their value. I don't see intuitively how that translates to the modern game without radically re-imagining their play style and inventing a very hypothetical player.
I understand the logic and agree with the assessment of the players, but you can't discount how the play style would necessarily change the approach. When people say Iverson or Kobe would be better today, yeah some exaggerate and say they'd average 40 or whatever.. but you'd have to assume with a spread floor and less contact allowed they would be attacking the hole a lot more and they were certainly capable of it...
I've come to the point where I think it's pointless to compare numbers and accolades across eras, all that said Kobe is overrated and SGA is underrated and it's all about titles and markets and nothing to do with stats
I think it gets too hypothetical. There were big efficient rim attackers in Kobe/Iverson's era but it wasn't quite them. It was a lot of bigs like Shaq, Duncan, Zach Randolph, and then dudes like Tony Parker, Antawn Jamison, Grant Hill, and Gary Paton.
I don't picture Kobe's driving game being an entirely different thing with better spacing. I can see an uptick. I think Kobe had better skills though, in terms of what translates. I think Kobe would get much more credit for his movement shooting, and coaches would utilize that more extremely than the triangle dared to. I think Kobe would still be a chucker, but he'd have a lot more data on which shots were more efficient, and some of that is going to impact his game. Imagine running Kobe off staggered screens for easy midrange jumpers, but also using similar sets to force a switch that gives Kobe a favorable post mismatch. That would be cool. Yes, Kobe would run some pick & roll and have the ball in his hands a lot, but I don't see these parts of his game being what translate best.
He was a pretty amazing ball player and was kind of good at everything, so he'd be fine in any era. I have a different opinion on what modern Kobe would look like though. Not in terms of ranking or pedigree, but in terms of playstyle.
I guess it is hypothetical, but is it? Obviously Kobe would play quite differently with this amount of spacing, he wasn't one trick pony, he was amazing finisher, one of the most plastic, acrobatic finishers around the rim we have ever seen, and one of the most talented scorers ever, I do not think it a reach to say he would play differently, of course he would. You made a very interesting point that made me think, but I still mainly just look at the talent level, and talent mentality, everything would still make Kobe a top 4 player today.
Kobe would adapt to different game, and he would definitely find it easier, his go to was mid range fadeaway out of the post, because he had no spacing, and he wasn't ball dominant PG, because thats how everyone played, everyone thought Erick Snow or Derrick Fisher should initiate offense. Kobe now would play PG, he would initiate offenses, you think he lacks talent for that, I mean come on. This 3 point revolution is a new thing, we still have players who learned the game from Kobe and other players from that era, and many adapted to completely different game, SGA is probably one of them. No one expected SGA to be a point either. Kobe is one of the most talented players of all time, we aren't talking about some role player who just fit at the time, Jerome James he aint, if Jerome James played today, he would be in Turkey or smth like that, Kobe would play point, he would lead offense etc.
Kobe actually predated Harden in this revolution. I mean Lakers weren't successful, but Remember when D'Antoni got Lakers job and they got Dwight and Nash. Nash is one of the most pure PGs all of time, and D'Antoni put ball In Kobe's hands, Kobe had many games with double digit assists, he adapted on a fly. Lakers flamed out because of bad locker room vibes and all, but D'Antoni, who is grandfather of how game is played today, actually started it all with Kobe in 2010.
