What franchise is in the worst position moving forward?

[vxmike]

I don't think Bulls are the answer here.

Yeah, they're stacked in mediocrity and for whatever reason are hesitant to tank, but they also have control over their long term draft picks, so they can become 'regular' bad team very quickly. Awfully run organization, but the path to rebuild is clear here.

On the other hand, Clippers and Suns have the 2nd and 3rd oldest rosters in the NBA - 1st round playoff teams at best (unless you believe that Kawhi will be healthy for the first time in 5 years in the postseason) - no control over draft picks until 2030/2031.

If I am a young GM, I'd definitely choose to run Bulls than Clippers or Suns. So it's either Clippers or Suns long term.

The Bulls have virtually no assets. They can’t even trade their best player. Vucevic might fetch a SRP. Williams is already a bad contract. They owe their ‘25 FRP to SA.

[CobraCommander]

It’s the wizards - followed by NO - then clippers- followed by the suns- then when curry retires the Warriors are doomed-

The suns at least got Booker -

[cocktailswith_2short]

Lol at the bulls being mentioned as the worst . They have a better record than ten teams as of this post and are trending up with a couple of nice young players to boot .

[Capn'O]

There's no team that's in an absolutely hopeless position right now. That's kinda neat.

[CROBulls]

Lol at the bulls being mentioned as the worst . They have a better record than ten teams as of this post and are trending up with a couple of nice young players to boot .

Bulls basically have nothing on roster worth building around. All their vet contracts are negative contracts in actual trade value and all their "good" contracts are non star/not franchise players worth building or long term inventing in it. They dont own future picks. They basically have nothing of value on their roster where they can make a move to get a player or have nothing in value to move away from players unless it's salary dump.

It's basically loss-loss situation. Which is amazing position in which not many franchises have actually not being in. Worth of history books. I called this doing Hawks 00's in Bulls board, but we have chance to make this our own. I just dont have actual name except "purgatory".

I am glad this board recognizes how terrible situation is for Bulls. It's literally road to nowhere for few more years. I would say Bulls are 2 years away from 2 years away, before they can actually can start building something from scratch. And I will take gladly any bet that Bulls will not be relevant (like making 2nd round playoffs) in rest of this his decade barring winning lotery by some crazy chance in near future.

[Wingy]

I don't think Bulls are the answer here.

Yeah, they're stacked in mediocrity and for whatever reason are hesitant to tank, but they also have control over their long term draft picks, so they can become 'regular' bad team very quickly. Awfully run organization, but the path to rebuild is clear here.

On the other hand, Clippers and Suns have the 2nd and 3rd oldest rosters in the NBA - 1st round playoff teams at best (unless you believe that Kawhi will be healthy for the first time in 5 years in the postseason) - no control over draft picks until 2030/2031.

If I am a young GM, I'd definitely choose to run Bulls than Clippers or Suns. So it's either Clippers or Suns long term.

These are good and valid points for anyone that cares about winning. Unfortunately Bulls ownership is generally happy with some of the league’s highest attendance numbers and a 1st round playoff team at best. The “for whatever reason” is this inexorable truth for Bulls fans.

Certainly for the worse early, but at least the Clips and Suns ownerships are clearly passionate about real winning. Will they learn from their initial mistakes? Who knows, but control of your own picks means very little when you’re satisfied with playins year after year and think you should always “compete” even when a true generational talent like Wemby is out there.

If you’re not wise enough to tank for a chance at Wemby, your pick’s in jeopardy and a guy like Flagg is available - and all you continue to do is fight your ass off for the playin - what exactly are you doing as a franchise? Zero ambition. Zero ability to see beyond two feet in front of them.

[Wingy]

Lol at the bulls being mentioned as the worst . They have a better record than ten teams as of this post and are trending up with a couple of nice young players to boot .

Bulls basically have nothing on roster worth building around. All their vet contracts are negative contracts in actual trade value and all their "good" contracts are non star/not franchise players worth building or long term inventing in it. They dont own future picks. They basically have nothing of value on their roster where they can make a move to get a player or have nothing in value to move away from players unless it's salary dump.

It's basically loss-loss situation. Which is amazing position in which not many franchises have actually not being in. Worth of history books. I called this doing Hawks 00's in Bulls board, but we have chance to make this our own. I just dont have actual name except "purgatory".

I am glad this board recognizes how terrible situation is for Bulls. It's literally road to nowhere for few more years. I would say Bulls are 2 years away from 2 years away, before they can actually can start building something from scratch. And I will take gladly any bet that Bulls will not be relevant (like making 2nd round playoffs) in rest of this his decade barring winning lotery by some crazy chance in near future.

They’re an embarrassment to true competitiveness. Which is ironic in that they hide that by scratching and clawing for every win possible and refusing to bottom out in the great quest for their playin ceiling.

In the weaker conference, of all the teams in the league that are actually trying, they have the worst record in the league outside of -

1. Philly and all their problems, but who doesn’t expect Philly to eventually pass them?
2. Kings who just fired their coach, and have mostly been messed up by a player I really like, but not coincidentally, was also a member and contributor to the similar ill-fit of janky Bulls rosters
3. Pistons - tied with them, a team one season removed from being historically bad.

Horribly terrible front office. Even worse ownership group.

They haven’t had some kind of disgusting, embarrassing scandal. That’s about all I can say in their favor.

[cgf]

The bulls are in a bad spot, but they have most of their picks, some young talent already, and they can still get good picks while gunning for the play-in.

Phoenix and the LA teams don’t even have that going for them…unless you think they can still contend. Philly’s in rough shape too, but at least they have a young star (Maxey).

[Wingy]

The bulls are in a bad spot, but they have most of their picks, some young talent already, and they can still get good picks while gunning for the play-in.

Phoenix and the LA teams don’t even have that going for them…unless you think they can still contend. Philly’s in rough shape too, but at least they have a young star (Maxey).

What young talent? Matas, that’s it.

Some guys I like, but fandom aside, objectively everyone else are eminently replaceable players, dime a dozen sorts.

[cgf]

The bulls are in a bad spot, but they have most of their picks, some young talent already, and they can still get good picks while gunning for the play-in.

Phoenix and the LA teams don’t even have that going for them…unless you think they can still contend. Philly’s in rough shape too, but at least they have a young star (Maxey).

What young talent? Matas, that’s it.

Some guys I like, but fandom aside, objectively everyone else are eminently replaceable players, dime a dozen sorts.

I'm a big Coby White fan. I think he'd be an allstar level PG if a team like Orlando had snagged him this summer. But there are other NBA players in the making.

[Wingy]

I'm a big Coby White fan. I think he'd be an allstar level PG if a team like Orlando had snagged him this summer. But there are other NBA players in the making.

I absolutely love Coby. Easily becoming one of my favorite Bulls of all time. Yet, I don’t see him as anything that special. I don’t think his shot will ever be particularly consistent, and he doesn’t have any elite physical or intangible traits…other than being a top-notch teammate/culture guy.

He certainly works his butt off to improve his game, and is a productive player, but seems best suited for the microwave scorer role on a legit good team. He can produce more if you make him a top option as seen last season, but then you’re greatly limiting your team ceiling as he’s nowhere near a guy to build around.

Certainly other quality NBA players now or in the making (eg- Ayo, Jalen Smith), but where do they lead you? I don’t see them elevating any team beyond where the Bulls are now. As maligned as he is, no one on the roster will ever be as good as Lavine…except maybe Matas if he fulfills his potential, and that’s always a huge if you can say for a ton of players.

[cgf]

I'm a big Coby White fan. I think he'd be an allstar level PG if a team like Orlando had snagged him this summer. But there are other NBA players in the making.

I absolutely love Coby. Easily becoming one of my favorite Bulls of all time. Yet, I don’t see him as anything that special. I don’t think his shot will ever be particularly consistent, and he doesn’t have any elite physical or intangible traits…other than being a top-notch teammate/culture guy.

He certainly works his butt off to improve his game, and is a productive player, but seems best suited for the microwave scorer role on a legit good team. He can produce more if you make him a top option as seen last season, but then you’re greatly limiting your team ceiling as he’s nowhere near a guy to build around.

Certainly other quality NBA players now or in the making (eg- Ayo, Jalen Smith), but where do they lead you? I don’t see them elevating any team beyond where the Bulls are now. As maligned as he is, no one on the roster will ever be as good as Lavine…except maybe Matas if he fulfills his potential, and that’s always a huge if you can say for a ton of players.

Oh you're right that the team lacks game-changing talents; even as a big Coby fan I think he's a 3rd option on a top team not a top 2 one, but there are a number of kids I can see being meaningful contributors on a good team...on top of Coby, Ayo, Smith, Matas, I also can see Terry & Williams having long NBA careers, if Pat can ever stay healthy...and the team still controls almost all of its picks. With the new lottery odds that's not a terrible position if your pro- & amateur-scouts do a good job identifying talent and you do a good job developing it.

[Wingy]

Oh you're right that the team lacks game-changing talents; even as a big Coby fan I think he's a 3rd option on a top team not a top 2 one, but there are a number of kids I can see being meaningful contributors on a good team...on top of Coby, Ayo, Smith, Matas, I also can see Terry & Williams having long NBA careers, if Pat can ever stay healthy...and the team still controls almost all of its picks. With the new lottery odds that's not a terrible position if your pro- & amateur-scouts do a good job identifying talent and you do a good job developing it.

End of the day, despite some number of serviceable to good NBA players - seems we agree there are no real needle movers. Most have a comp on most any team.

PWill was a reach at 4, he has been handed everything in terms of safe role/minutes since the beginning and still never improved to any significant degree. Despite having multiple guys on the roster out produce him, he always kept his starting role and he was still resigned with a wholly unnecessary 5th year.

Vuc was an overpay, and miscalculation on his shooting and certainly his inability to defend the rim was completely overlooked. Then they re-up him, and he’s having an outlier shooting year thus far.

They kicked Lauri out the door which I was fine with thinking he’d get a big big contract. But it came in at a much lower number, which I’d have been happy to keep him at.

Coby clearly has work ethic and pushed himself and wasn’t drafted by them. Ayo was as ready made as the come and a “duh” no brainer pick as an accomplished college player from Chicago in the 2nd round.

Tl;dr version, they haven’t given any real indication of being good talent evaluators or developers. Couple that with their steadfast strategy of never tanking (ie - increasing odds of high talent), plus a not particularly rich for profit before anything ownership group, and it all adds up to a terrible combo.

This thread is basically about hope. Bulls are the most hopeless overall. Teams like PHX/LAC can still eventually clear the cap decks and be desirable destinations. Bulls are cold weather, high tax, horrible reputation ownership (Last Dance anyone?) with zero ambition to be anything more than mid.

[ConSarnit]

How are the Bucks not on this list?

Draft picks they fully control:

2031

Age of Core Players:

Dame, 34
Lopez, 36
Middleton, 33

Free agent destination:

Level 0

They have one great asset (Giannis) and beside that have no way to build a team around him in the future because their #2-4 options are all aging out and they have no draft assets.

[Blame Rasho]

I am happy the pistons aren’t listed…. It has been a brutal amount of years they have had.