Suns 'Frustration Level Is High' After Falling Two Games Under .500

[RealGM Wiretap]

The Phoenix Suns have lost three consecutive games. That losing streak has seen the Suns fall below .500 on the season, and currently out of the postseason picture in the Western Conference. That's got several of the Suns leaders feeling frustrated.

"We have guys that have won at a high level, that have high expectations," Phoenix head coach Mike Budenholzer said about his team's frustration level. "We gotta find ways to get better, so these are not easy times. But our guys will find a way through it, and we’ll find a way through it together."

On a night where Bradley Beal was injured again, Devin Booker admitted that's got the team frustrated and knowing they are missing opportunities.

"Frustration level's high. We're all competitors in here, and we realize these games are gonna cost us in the end of the season," Booker said. "We wanna gain some ground, get up out of the play-in position and just win every possible game."

Kevin Durant said the Suns simply have to play better, and that includes himself.

"I feel like I can do so much out there, I just feel like I gotta be better. And I feel like every player in the locker room got that same mentality," Durant said. "So, we all look in the mirror, we'll be a better team."

Via Gerald Bourguet/PHNX

[pushfloater]

Would anybody take Beal?

[Future Coach]

It's almost as if throwing all your salary cap space at 3 (largely) perimeter scorers didn't really help create a complete basketball team. Who would have thought that could be the case?

[Pickled Prunes]

Would anybody take Beal?

No. But to be fair, the contract is the problem, not the player. Beal would be a fine #3 if they could give 2/5 of his contract to a solid #4.

[JKiddy]

How many picks do they have to attach to Beal to trick a team into taking him?

[Scalabrine]

How many picks do they have to attach to Beal to trick a team into taking him?

They have 1 tradable pick.

[niha17]

that teeam is worse than chicago

[niha17]

suns are toast

[JKiddy]

How many picks do they have to attach to Beal to trick a team into taking him?

They have 1 tradable pick.

Then they need to move off KD or Booker after this season if this doesn't work FAST.

[DoItALL9]

Would anybody take Beal?

No. But to be fair, the contract is the problem, not the player. Beal would be a fine #3 if they could give 2/5 of his contract to a solid #4.

If he was a guy that played every night his contract wouldn't be that bad of a problem, relatively.

[Scalabrine]

How many picks do they have to attach to Beal to trick a team into taking him?

They have 1 tradable pick.

Then they need to move off KD or Booker after this season if this doesn't work FAST.

Since theyre over the apron; they're pretty much stuck with this team. Maybe in the off-season they can start tearing it a part but without any of their own picks, is that even beneficial?

It's crazy how is seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME a new billionaire comes in and buys a team they think they know exactly what it takes to be successful. They go out and ramshackle their team of assets for a shot at immediate success and it fails.

- Balmer did it with the Clippers
- Vivek did it with the Kings
- Fertata did it with the Rockets
- Tsai did it with the Nets
- Prohkorov did it before him with the Nets
- Now we've seen it with Ishbia and the Suns

I feel like the only reason we didn't see it with the Mavs sale is because they were already backed into a corner and have very little wiggle room to make any big moves. Who knows though, it's still pretty new.

These guys don't learn from the past mistakes made by others. You can't just throw money at it to fix it. It takes a process. It takes time. It takes a good group around you that is on the same page. It takes luck.

[puja21]

They have 1 tradable pick.

Then they need to move off KD or Booker after this season if this doesn't work FAST.

Since theyre over the apron; they're pretty much stuck with this team. Maybe in the off-season they can start tearing it a part but without any of their own picks, is that even beneficial?

It's crazy how is seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME a new billionaire comes in and buys a team they think they know exactly what it takes to be successful. They go out and ramshackle their team of assets for a shot at immediate success and it fails.

- Balmer did it with the Clippers
- Vivek did it with the Kings
- Fertata did it with the Rockets
- Tsai did it with the Nets
- Prohkorov did it before him with the Nets
- Now we've seen it with Ishbia and the Suns

I feel like the only reason we didn't see it with the Mavs sale is because they were already backed into a corner and have very little wiggle room to make any big moves. Who knows though, it's still pretty new.

These guys don't learn from the past mistakes made by others. You can't just throw money at it to fix it. It takes a process. It takes time. It takes a good group around you that is on the same page. It takes luck.

Vivek even tried to argue he understood the salary cap. Big L there.

[puja21]

They have 1 tradable pick.

Then they need to move off KD or Booker after this season if this doesn't work FAST.

Since theyre over the apron; they're pretty much stuck with this team. Maybe in the off-season they can start tearing it a part but without any of their own picks, is that even beneficial?

It's crazy how is seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME a new billionaire comes in and buys a team they think they know exactly what it takes to be successful. They go out and ramshackle their team of assets for a shot at immediate success and it fails.

- Balmer did it with the Clippers
- Vivek did it with the Kings
- Fertata did it with the Rockets
- Tsai did it with the Nets
- Prohkorov did it before him with the Nets
- Now we've seen it with Ishbia and the Suns

I feel like the only reason we didn't see it with the Mavs sale is because they were already backed into a corner and have very little wiggle room to make any big moves. Who knows though, it's still pretty new.

These guys don't learn from the past mistakes made by others. You can't just throw money at it to fix it. It takes a process. It takes time. It takes a good group around you that is on the same page. It takes luck.

Billionaire Tom Gores also has pretty horrific results -- despite not even throwing money or quick fixes at it.

Left Dumars in there (3 years too long), followed by a litany of bad exec choices (SVG/Bower, Stefanski, Weaver). Draft picks have been questionable and Langdon still TBD.

Whether you try to spend or build conservatively, it's hard to separate from the pack in either direction.

Only 10 of 30 franchises have titles in the past 20 years

But only 12 of the 30 franchises have a losing record over the past 20 years.


The #1 team in that span for win pct (Spurs) and the #18-team (Grizzlies) are separated by 8-9 wins per year (and both >.500)

[Pickled Prunes]

Would anybody take Beal?

No. But to be fair, the contract is the problem, not the player. Beal would be a fine #3 if they could give 2/5 of his contract to a solid #4.

If he was a guy that played every night his contract wouldn't be that bad of a problem, relatively.

Nope, it's still terrible. His career numbers are almost identical to CJ McCullum, the difference being that CJ has always been a #2 or #3 and Beal was a #1 on a bad team in the East where he got more minutes and shots but far fewer wins. He has been painted as a star but he is not that. He would have zero All Star appearances if he came up in the West.

Don't get me wrong, CJ and Beal are both great players... they just aren't max players, even if they played all 82.

[puja21]

[Beal] would have zero All Star appearances if he came up in the West.

probably still makes one.


obviously lots of variables depending on how you define "came up" -- but if you just swap his team into the west with the same record and stats, then Beal's got a good ASG chance in both 2020 and 2021

I'm in an NBA picks group chat where we have kept a spreadsheet of the numbers at the break for the last 10 years-- use it to guess the ASG results, year end awards etc...

In 2020:
Beal's Wizards had 20 wins at the break (9 seed) and he'd averaged 29.1/4.4/6.2 and 1 stl on .454/.322/.843 splits
Beal would've been the 3rd leading scorer among West guards ahead of Luka (28.9), Leonard (27.2) and Russ (27.2).
He was also at 8 FTA per game, more than every West guard except Harden (12) and Luka (9.1)

His best AS case is replacing either Book, CP3 or Spida:
Booker's Suns had 22 wins as the 12th seed and was averaging 26.4/4.2/6.3 on .496/.358/.920
Paul's Thunder had 33 wins (6 seed) and was averaging 17.4/5.0/6.7 on .485/.362/.898
Mitchell's Jazz had 36 wins (4 seed) + avg'ing 24.3/4.3/4.3 + 1.1 stl on .457/.363.861

in 2021:
Wizards had 14 wins (12 seed) and Beal was avg'ing 32.9/5.4/4.7 + 1.4 steals on .482/.335/.903
His 32.9 ppg led the entire Western conference and he also had the most FTA (8.4).

Best 2021 case is replacing Harden, Conley or either Sun (Booker/Paul)
Harden's numbers were good (25.3/7.8/11.1 + 1.2 spg on .484/.401/.859) but Rockets even worse than Wizards, having slipped to 11 wins (14 seed).
Jazz were the 1 seed (27 wins), which helped Conley's "lifetime achievement case," but his numbers are meh for AS: 16.1/3.5/5.7 + 1.4 stl on .444/.422/.829 and they already had Mitchell on the team (nearly identical numbers to 2021 but 4% worse efficiency).
Suns had 24 wins (2 seed) -- book's numbers basically identical to 2020. Paul was 16/4.7/8.8 and 1.2 stl on .486/.391/.954.

Chances are good Beal bounces one of those 5 guys in 2021 as the leading scorer and is a 1x AS at least.

[Pickled Prunes]

[Beal] would have zero All Star appearances if he came up in the West.

probably still makes one.


obviously lots of variables depending on how you define "came up" -- but if you just swap his team into the west with the same record and stats, then Beal's got a good ASG chance in both 2020 and 2021

I'm in an NBA picks group chat where we have kept a spreadsheet of the numbers at the break for the last 10 years-- use it to guess the ASG results, year end awards etc...

In 2020:
Beal's Wizards had 20 wins at the break (9 seed) and he'd averaged 29.1/4.4/6.2 and 1 stl on .454/.322/.843 splits
Beal would've been the 3rd leading scorer among West guards ahead of Luka (28.9), Leonard (27.2) and Russ (27.2).
He was also at 8 FTA per game, more than every West guard except Harden (12) and Luka (9.1)

His best AS case is replacing either Book, CP3 or Spida:
Booker's Suns had 22 wins as the 12th seed and was averaging 26.4/4.2/6.3 on .496/.358/.920
Paul's Thunder had 33 wins (6 seed) and was averaging 17.4/5.0/6.7 on .485/.362/.898
Mitchell's Jazz had 36 wins (4 seed) + avg'ing 24.3/4.3/4.3 + 1.1 stl on .457/.363.861

in 2021:
Wizards had 14 wins (12 seed) and Beal was avg'ing 32.9/5.4/4.7 + 1.4 steals on .482/.335/.903
His 32.9 ppg led the entire Western conference and he also had the most FTA (8.4).

Best 2021 case is replacing Harden, Conley or either Sun (Booker/Paul)
Harden's numbers were good (25.3/7.8/11.1 + 1.2 spg on .484/.401/.859) but Rockets even worse than Wizards, having slipped to 11 wins (14 seed).
Jazz were the 1 seed (27 wins), which helped Conley's "lifetime achievement case," but his numbers are meh for AS: 16.1/3.5/5.7 + 1.4 stl on .444/.422/.829 and they already had Mitchell on the team (nearly identical numbers to 2021 but 4% worse efficiency).
Suns had 24 wins (2 seed) -- book's numbers basically identical to 2020. Paul was 16/4.7/8.8 and 1.2 stl on .486/.391/.954.

Chances are good Beal bounces one of those 5 guys in 2021 as the leading scorer and is a 1x AS at least.

Beal is a good player, but he stood out as the designated chucker on a bad team. They had no one else to shoot. There is no chance that he approaches these scoring totals in the West. That's why I said "came up" in the West. In the West, a team either has a player better than Beal or they lose too many games to be in AS contention. If you just swapped him with CJ, he's then playing behind Dame, who also regularly struggled to make the AS team despite consistent winning in a tougher conference. And Dame had a hard time breaking through because he came up behind Aldridge, who came up alongside Roy. In the West you don't make an AS game by standing out on a bad team; you wait and earn it. (Wemby is about to prove me wrong, as did Zion in 20/21... but these are special cats.)

The East has historically been shallow. (Kemba made the AS team in 19/20.) But 20/21 was a strange year because several AS's moved east so if there was a year for a player like Conley to make it, that was it. There is no chance Beal makes the AS game over Harden any year ever, but Harden was in the East that season anyway. Booker and Conley were injury replacements, so I'm not sure how to judge those selections. But the bottom line is, you can't just move a player to the West and think their stats are coming with them. Situation is everything.

Do you think, if Beal had been in the West he would have enough shots in 2021 to beat out the players that didn't make the AS team? KAT 25/11/5: Fox 25/4/7: Ingram 24/5/5... etc.

Beal just did come West and he is playing the most efficient basketball of his career and the fans think he's a bum. He's the same player on the first "potentially" good team he's ever played on. He just isn't good enough to take 23 FGA on a good team and mediocre teams in the west look like miserable teams.

Just watch as a good team (DEN?) bites the bullet and trades for LaVine... and then realize that he's no better than MPJ. A good player on a bad team always looks better than they are.

[puja21]

Do you think, if Beal had been in the West he would have enough shots in 2021 to beat out the players that didn't make the AS team? KAT 25/11/5: Fox 25/4/7: Ingram 24/5/5... etc.

Well he's a guard, so KAT, Ingram irrelevant

obviously lots of variables depending on how you define "came up" -- but if you just swap his team into the west with the same record and stats, then Beal's got a good ASG chance in both 2020 and 2021

^And why I said this

If you're talking about putting him on Portland as a rookie, it wouldn't be with CJM -- Beal is in Dame's class -- so it would be "instead of Dame alongside CJM. I agree he probably doesn't make an ASG next to either guy.

But if he's drafted in Sacto at 5 instead of Thomas Robinson and he's chucking shots for Keith Smart, Mike Malone, Ty Corbin or George Karl in the decade long drought -- I definitely think he's "still" capable of hanging 30+ and beating out someone like Mike Conley or another "2nd" all star (Booker/Paul).

RE: "Beal is a good player, but he stood out as the designated chucker on a bad team. They had no one else to shoot"

^Booker also fits this exactly for the first 5 seasons of his career (one of which he was an All Star on a lottery team launching low percentage 3s).
Before Paul arrived, Booker lost 280 games in 5 years (.302 win pct), played in zero playoff games, shot 35% on 3s, while throwing up 19 FGAs per game.

bottom line is, you can't just move a player to the West and think their stats are coming with them. Situation is everything.

This is particularly silly -- "you can't [insert one specific made up fantasy]! it has to be a DIFFERENT, specific made up fantasy or it's not realistic"
They're both hypotheticals & I already qualified this, but of course I agree -- there are tons of variables, yes. I can think of several plausible scenarios that allow Beal to be drafted in the West and still make an ASG.

[Pickled Prunes]

Do you think, if Beal had been in the West he would have enough shots in 2021 to beat out the players that didn't make the AS team? KAT 25/11/5: Fox 25/4/7: Ingram 24/5/5... etc.

Well he's a guard, so KAT, Ingram irrelevant

obviously lots of variables depending on how you define "came up" -- but if you just swap his team into the west with the same record and stats, then Beal's got a good ASG chance in both 2020 and 2021

^And why I said this

If you're talking about putting him on Portland as a rookie, it wouldn't be with CJM -- Beal is in Dame's class -- so it would be "instead of Dame alongside CJM. I agree he probably doesn't make an ASG next to either guy.

But if he's drafted in Sacto at 5 instead of Thomas Robinson and he's chucking shots for Keith Smart, Mike Malone, Ty Corbin or George Karl in the decade long drought -- I definitely think he's "still" capable of hanging 30+ and beating out someone like Mike Conley or another "2nd" all star (Booker/Paul).

RE: "Beal is a good player, but he stood out as the designated chucker on a bad team. They had no one else to shoot"

^Booker also fits this exactly for the first 5 seasons of his career (one of which he was an All Star on a lottery team launching low percentage 3s).
Before Paul arrived, Booker lost 280 games in 5 years (.302 win pct), played in zero playoff games, shot 35% on 3s, while throwing up 19 FGAs per game.

bottom line is, you can't just move a player to the West and think their stats are coming with them. Situation is everything.

This is particularly silly -- "you can't [insert one specific made up fantasy]! it has to be a DIFFERENT, specific made up fantasy or it's not realistic"
They're both hypotheticals & I already qualified this, but of course I agree -- there are tons of variables, yes. I can think of several plausible scenarios that allow Beal to be drafted in the West and still make an ASG.

The 12th man on the AS roster can come from any position.

I chose CJ because of how close they are statistically, not because POR would, could or should have drafted Beal. If Beal had been drafted by SAC they would have continued to be the dregs of the West. He certainly would not have gotten the nod over Boogie and Fox arrived shortly after Boogie moved on. I don't see it.

I get your point about Booker 100%. There was a lot of unprecedented hype around Booker while he was coming up. A lot of people waiting for the leap and checking his box the moment they thought he had arrived... but he's also more skilled than Beal at both ends. (Side note: I think bringing in a PG was the right move for the team but has thrown Booker all out of whack. He'll climb back.)

I can insert any hypothetical I want, it was my "what if". My point was not that Beal wouldn't make an AS game if he scored 31 PPG in the West. My suggestion is that there isn't a team in the West that is going to let a player of Beal's ability shoot 23 FGA and get anywhere close to a playoff spot. The West is too deep. That WAS roster would win 12 games in the West. In 19/20 Beal averaged 31 PTS on 22.9 FGA. Rui was 2nd on his team with 11.4 FGA's. There were 9 teams in the East that finished that season with a losing record.

All that said, maybe you're right. Maybe Beal would have found the right situation and gotten the nod in the West. This back and forth kind of proves my original point though: Beal remaining healthy doesn't make this a good contract. If he needs the right situation to make an AS team, he isn't a $50m+ player.

[puja21]

If Beal had been drafted by SAC they would have continued to be the dregs of the West. He certainly would not have gotten the nod over Boogie and Fox arrived shortly after Boogie moved on. I don't see it.

Your timeline is completely wrong here

Cousins was long gone by by 2020, let alone 2021 (the Conley AS year) -- and his last ASG was 2018 (just weeks after he tore the achilles with the Pels)

My suggestion is that there isn't a team in the West that is going to let a player of Beal's ability shoot 23 FGA and get anywhere close to a playoff spot.

What does a playoff spot have to do with anything? This isn't the MVP. Why move the goal posts now? All I said was there are multiple plausible situations that make Beal an AS in the west.

You're jumping through an insane amount of mental gymnastics to triple down here -- That he would go to Portland? That Cousins in 20/21 is an all star in Sacto? Fox (who may not be drafted on a Beal team anyway) took 19 shots a game in 2021 for Sacto .Oladipo took 19(!) for Houston .. John Wall took 18.

You're posing this like bad teams having chuckers is an outlier.

[Pickled Prunes]

If Beal had been drafted by SAC they would have continued to be the dregs of the West. He certainly would not have gotten the nod over Boogie and Fox arrived shortly after Boogie moved on. I don't see it.

Your timeline is completely wrong here

Cousins was long gone by by 2020, let alone 2021 (the Conley AS year) -- and his last ASG was 2018 (just weeks after he tore the achilles with the Pels)

My suggestion is that there isn't a team in the West that is going to let a player of Beal's ability shoot 23 FGA and get anywhere close to a playoff spot.

What does a playoff spot have to do with anything? This isn't the MVP. Why move the goal posts now? All I said was there are multiple plausible situations that make Beal an AS in the west.

You're jumping through an insane amount of mental gymnastics to triple down here -- That he would go to Portland? That Cousins in 20/21 is an all star in Sacto? Fox (who may not be drafted on a Beal team anyway) took 19 shots a game in 2021 for Sacto .Oladipo took 19(!) for Houston .. John Wall took 18.

Your posing this like bad teams having chuckers is an outlier.

This is getting kind of pedestrian.

My point that you are trying so hard to miss: Beal is not a max-level player. Beal got paid because he was an AS. There has historically been a lower bar to making the AS game in the East. Either way, making an AS game does not make you a max-worthy player, particularly if you did it by leading the NBA in FGA and when your scoring doesn't lead to winning. (LaMelo says hello!)

Beal is a CJ McCollum level player. That's a good player. CJ had individual and team success in the West and was in the AS conversation but never made it. Rightly so. This season CJ is actually averaging eerily similar stats to Beal in 17/18 when he made his first AS appearance.

Beal in 17/18: 23/4/5 on .460 FG%, .375 3pt%
CJ this season: 23/4/4 on .461 FG%, .378 3PT%

Crazy right? CJ won't even be mentioned as an AS in NOP. People won't even joke about it. Rightly so.

I didn't do any mental gymnastics and I didn't move goal posts. I made a simple point that you misconstrued and have been throwing slanted arguments at. I even acknowledged that you might be right; there could be a scenario where Beal makes an AS game in the West. Either way, Beal is a borderline AS player that is not Max-level talent. I mean, I think you probably agree with that... no?

As far as timeline, Beal's first two AS games were while Boogie was in SAC. I only mentioned SAC because you brought it up. It had nothing to do with my original point. If Beal was in SAC they probably would be good enough that Malone doesn't get fired, Boogie never leaves, Beal still doesn't make an AS game and Jokic doesn't win a title... but now we're really speculating on speculation!

Were Fox, Oladipo or Wall in the AS conversation that season? Fox only made the AS game when his FG% and Win% were both over .500.