Another dive, another injury (Jaden Ivey suffers broken fibula)

[ryguy613]

I watched it again, this wasn't a dive for the ball, it was a tackle.

Ivey basically had position and possession of the ball and this idiot tackles him.

I dont like Cole,in this case he could have acted with more constraint, but here - this is basically the moment he starts diving, Ivey did not have the possesion of the ball at that moment and no one can predict what will happen a second later.

This. No one in this picture knows at this point whether either one will dive or run to the ball or stop short. And in most cases from a safety standpoint in basketball it doesn't end up mattering at all. Time after time players dive straight forward for a loose ball and nothing happens because of it; even if unexpected contact with another player happens as a result.

It even looked as if Anthony touched the ball first to try and poke it away. It was only after the fact that he saw he was going to hit Ivey and curled up.

I could even see in an alternate universe where if they collided and Ivey didn't touch the ball and was unhurt that Ivey could have ended up being called for a foul for colliding with Anthony who did. No doubt players and fans on the Pistons side would have issue with that but we have definitely seen that call made before on contested loose balls / rebounds.

you can see into alternate universes? didnt realize we had mother **** Dr Strange on this forum

[JT3000]

It's not irrelevant at all, as it shows he was making a play on the ball and any contact with Ivey was incidental. Why would he dive? Because he figured that was the fastest way to get to the ball before anyone else, obviously. Just because he didn't see Ivey, that doesn't mean it wasn't still a LOOSE BALL that was fair game for anyone to pick up.

You're not getting ejected for making incidental contact on a legitimate, legal basketball play (such as blocking a ball.) That's not how flagrants work. Just ask Cole, who was in fact not ejected from the game for making a genuine basketball play. All this speculative, armchair officiating amounts to nothing at the end of the day.

I don't care if the contact was incidental or not.

Only way Cole Anthony was going to get to the ball was going through Ivey because Ivey was already there and had a hand on the ball.

It was a tackle, no different than a tackle in futbol that would be called for a red flag.

Basketball isn't football no matter how many RealGm posters miss the good ole days of the handcheck and 87-83 games.

Just like now you can't close out and put your foot in a shooter's landing space, you shouldn't be able to dive for the ball and make contact with a player's legs and take them out. It's a dumb play. It's a reckless play. It's an unnecessary career ending play. It deserves a flagrant.

If you don't care whether the contact was incidental, why are you even arguing this? If you don't care about the pertinent facts, what's the point? Obviously you don't care about any of the points I've already made either, since you failed to address them at all.

No, Ivey did not have a hand on the ball. Anthony even touched it before him. This has been established multiple times in this thread alone, and I would recommend actually watching the video of the play before you say anything else, as you're clearly one of these people who have jumped into the discussion without doing so. You don't even care about the facts of the topic, by your own admission, and you haven't even watched the play, and yet here you are trying to talk about it anyway....

"Futbol" LOL

[hardenASG13]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

[ryguy613]

It's not irrelevant at all, as it shows he was making a play on the ball and any contact with Ivey was incidental. Why would he dive? Because he figured that was the fastest way to get to the ball before anyone else, obviously. Just because he didn't see Ivey, that doesn't mean it wasn't still a LOOSE BALL that was fair game for anyone to pick up.

You're not getting ejected for making incidental contact on a legitimate, legal basketball play (such as blocking a ball.) That's not how flagrants work. Just ask Cole, who was in fact not ejected from the game for making a genuine basketball play. All this speculative, armchair officiating amounts to nothing at the end of the day.

I don't care if the contact was incidental or not.

Only way Cole Anthony was going to get to the ball was going through Ivey because Ivey was already there and had a hand on the ball.

It was a tackle, no different than a tackle in futbol that would be called for a red flag.

Basketball isn't football no matter how many RealGm posters miss the good ole days of the handcheck and 87-83 games.

Just like now you can't close out and put your foot in a shooter's landing space, you shouldn't be able to dive for the ball and make contact with a player's legs and take them out. It's a dumb play. It's a reckless play. It's an unnecessary career ending play. It deserves a flagrant.

If you don't care whether the contact was incidental, why are you even arguing this? If you don't care about the pertinent facts, what's the point? Obviously you don't care about any of the points I've already made either, since you failed to address them at all.

No, Ivey did not have a hand on the ball. Anthony even touched it before him. This has been established multiple times in this thread alone, and I would recommend actually watching the video of the play before you say anything else, as you're clearly one of these people who have jumped into the discussion without doing so. You don't even care about the facts of the topic, by your own admission, and you haven't even watched the play, and yet here you are trying to talk about it anyway....

"Futbol" LOL

Contact can be both incidental and reckless. You think most guys who elbow another player in the head intended do so, or is it often the result of a player not taking the other players proximity into account when they swing their body around? Either way, if you elbow someone in the head its a reckless play. Cole probably had the best of intentions, trying to make a hustle play, but despite his intentions the play was dangerous, and the consequences of it bore that out.

[ryguy613]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

[hardenASG13]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

The thing is, you are very clearly not allowed to run red lights, with good reason. On the other hand, you are very clearly allowed to dive for a loose ball, in basketball, for good reason. It happens numerous times in every game. Anythony should be going 100% every game.

A more appropriate work analogy you could've made would be "I want to keep my job and get a raise, so I'm going to work hard for it," vs. "I want a raise and to keep my job, but I'm not going to try my hardest to prove my worth." Which strategy do you think would be more successful?

No, no, nothing about your analogy adds up at all.....

[The Real Dalic]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

This is a hilariously bad analogy. One is illegal on the books and can kill someone and has no real world benefits, unless you're running from someone who's trying to kill you, or a medical emergency. The other is a vastly more often than not harmless play that went wrong. It's also a legal basketball play.

The Magic are the hardest working team in the league. We've seen plenty of players on our roster dive for loose balls all of this season, and last. This is the first injury that has happened in over 100 games the past two years from diving. It was a freak accident. One that Cole already feels horrible about. Now he has people online telling him he should be banned. Incredible.

[ryguy613]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

This is a hilariously bad analogy. One is illegal on the books and can kill someone and has no real world benefits, unless you're running from someone who's trying to kill you, or a medical emergency. The other is a vastly more often than not harmless play that went wrong. It's also a legal basketball play.

The Magic are the hardest working team in the league. We've seen plenty of players on our roster dive for loose balls all of this season, and last. This is the first injury that has happened in over 100 games the past two years from diving. It was a freak accident. One that Cole already feels horrible about. Now he has people online telling him he should be banned. Incredible.

you understand that I'm ADVOCATING for the NBA to make this illegal right? Thats the whole point of this. Im saying its well past time for the NBA to DO something about what is very clearly reckless behavior on the court. Do you know how many reckless elements of driving used to be legal before they eventually became illegal? Safety rules are implemented for a reason. You have any idea the kinds of things that used to be considered "hustle plays" in football that were insanely dangerous and consequential?

[ryguy613]

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

The thing is, you are very clearly not allowed to run red lights, with good reason. On the other hand, you are very clearly allowed to dive for a loose ball, in basketball, for good reason. It happens numerous times in every game. Anythony should be going 100% every game.

A more appropriate work analogy you could've made would be "I want to keep my job and get a raise, so I'm going to work hard for it," vs. "I want a raise and to keep my job, but I'm not going to try my hardest to prove my worth." Which strategy do you think would be more successful?

No, no, nothing about your analogy adds up at all.....

do you remember when landing in a shooters landing space was not considered a reckless play? did it magically just become reckless after the rules changed, or was it always reckless and the league rules finally caught up to reality? positioning yourself that close to a shooter to disrupt their rhythm... just showing good hustle right? nothing wrong with it. hell, most of the time it doesnt even lead to an injury most of the time.

[___Rand___]

It didn't seem that reckless. Just a competitive play.

Also, broken bones are EASY to fix. They reset, and it's as good as new. It's the soft tissue injuries that can linger or change your career, so Ivey is lucky.

[JT3000]

I don't care if the contact was incidental or not.

Only way Cole Anthony was going to get to the ball was going through Ivey because Ivey was already there and had a hand on the ball.

It was a tackle, no different than a tackle in futbol that would be called for a red flag.

Basketball isn't football no matter how many RealGm posters miss the good ole days of the handcheck and 87-83 games.

Just like now you can't close out and put your foot in a shooter's landing space, you shouldn't be able to dive for the ball and make contact with a player's legs and take them out. It's a dumb play. It's a reckless play. It's an unnecessary career ending play. It deserves a flagrant.

If you don't care whether the contact was incidental, why are you even arguing this? If you don't care about the pertinent facts, what's the point? Obviously you don't care about any of the points I've already made either, since you failed to address them at all.

No, Ivey did not have a hand on the ball. Anthony even touched it before him. This has been established multiple times in this thread alone, and I would recommend actually watching the video of the play before you say anything else, as you're clearly one of these people who have jumped into the discussion without doing so. You don't even care about the facts of the topic, by your own admission, and you haven't even watched the play, and yet here you are trying to talk about it anyway....

"Futbol" LOL

You think most guys who elbow another player in the head intended do so

Yes.

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

There's no "right of way" in basketball. A loose ball is fair game, so your analogy doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all.

[ryguy613]

If you don't care whether the contact was incidental, why are you even arguing this? If you don't care about the pertinent facts, what's the point? Obviously you don't care about any of the points I've already made either, since you failed to address them at all.

No, Ivey did not have a hand on the ball. Anthony even touched it before him. This has been established multiple times in this thread alone, and I would recommend actually watching the video of the play before you say anything else, as you're clearly one of these people who have jumped into the discussion without doing so. You don't even care about the facts of the topic, by your own admission, and you haven't even watched the play, and yet here you are trying to talk about it anyway....

"Futbol" LOL

You think most guys who elbow another player in the head intended do so

Yes.

Anthony has lost backup pg minutes to Black. He's fighting for his job and earning his next contract, which at minimum is worth a few million dollars. There is nothing wrong with him playing like his livelihood depends on it.

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

There's no "right of way" in basketball. A loose ball is fair game, so your analogy doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all.

yeah, there also arent cars in basketball... thats not really the important part of the analogy lol.

[RookieStar]

First off.. as a Magic fan that wants to ship Cole off our team, i have to say that there wasnt intent to harm and... lets face it, after watching last season of Jingles not even bending down to grabe a loose ball rebound, im very happy with the effort shown by our guys.

Also as a fan of a team that has been devastated by injuries to our stars now and our history, i never wanna see injuries of that caliber on any team.

[NbaAllDay]

Malice or not shouldn't determine if a play is 'legal' or for the good of the game.

AFL brought in a diving rule that gave away a free kick if a player dove towards the ball and took out another players legs. It has stopped a number of ankle/knee related injuries.

It should be a simple rule to bring in (Flagrant foul potentially) to discourage it. VERY minimal gain when diving for a potential career ending injury.

It's also not a basketball act and i've always wondered how you can make so much contact while 'diving' or on the ground but can barely touch someone when shooting.

[ForeverTFC]

For the life of me i just dont understand why people dont take this more seriously? Its an insanely reckless play to dive at someone's ankles. enough is enough with this ****.

It's because you're making a false claim: Anthony never dove at Ivey's ankles. There are multiple videos and screen grabs in this thread that show a 50/50 ball with both players moving toward the ball. Neither had position.

The only way to regulate this is to make diving for the ball illegal. Is that your position?

Were you upset at Lin when he did this?

Watch on YouTube

[ryguy613]

For the life of me i just dont understand why people dont take this more seriously? Its an insanely reckless play to dive at someone's ankles. enough is enough with this ****.

It's because you're making a false claim: Anthony never dove at Ivey's ankles. There are multiple videos and screen grabs in this thread that show a 50/50 ball with both players moving toward the ball. Neither had position.

The only way to regulate this is to make diving for the ball illegal. Is that your position?

Were you upset at Lin when he did this?

Watch on YouTube

Me being a laker fan means obviously I believe no Laker player has ever done wrong at any time ever.... for all of eternity. Bro, the **** you mean was I upset? lol. If my Laker bias had anything to do with this why would I be chiming in about a situation involving Orlando and Detroit? So uh... yes... any time a Laker player has done this I've been equally against it, and will continue to be. I guess that was a fun imaginary game of gotcha though...

I dont think diving for a ball should be illegal outright. I think it should be illegal to do so within a reasonable distance of another upright player. There are situations where diving for a ball is not putting other players at risk of a serious injury. This is clearly not an example of that.

[ryan in Maine]

Require a pivot foot to be planted when recovering a loose ball.

[The Real Dalic]

For the life of me i just dont understand why people dont take this more seriously? Its an insanely reckless play to dive at someone's ankles. enough is enough with this ****.

It's because you're making a false claim: Anthony never dove at Ivey's ankles. There are multiple videos and screen grabs in this thread that show a 50/50 ball with both players moving toward the ball. Neither had position.

The only way to regulate this is to make diving for the ball illegal. Is that your position?

Were you upset at Lin when he did this?

Watch on YouTube

Me being a laker fan means obviously I believe no Laker player has ever done wrong at any time ever.... for all of eternity. Bro, the **** you mean was I upset? lol. If my Laker bias had anything to do with this why would I be chiming in about a situation involving Orlando and Detroit? So uh... yes... any time a Laker player has done this I've been equally against it, and will continue to be. I guess that was a fun imaginary game of gotcha though...

I dont think diving for a ball should be illegal outright. I think it should be illegal to do so within a reasonable distance of another upright player. There are situations where diving for a ball is not putting other players at risk of a serious injury. This is clearly not an example of that.

Are you kidding me? That is a clear example of a reckless dive, actually. He dove at the ball in the direction of Udrih and even made him fall due to the contact. That play was actually far more dangerous and reckless than Anthony's. I'm personally okay with the play since I love watching when players do the dirty work, but if you think that play was better just because no one got injured, I think it makes your stance not only inconsistent, but also proves why I don't want a new rule in place. It would be too hard for everyone, including the refs, to agree on what is and isn't a "reckless dive."

[The Real Dalic]

"Your honor, theres nothing wrong with me running that red light and hitting the car with the right of way. I had to get to work on time, so I had to drive like my livelihood depended on it. Yes... that guy DID end up in the hospital but youre missing the big picture. My boss was really impressed with my dedication to the job, so I got a promotion! Case Closed!"

This is a hilariously bad analogy. One is illegal on the books and can kill someone and has no real world benefits, unless you're running from someone who's trying to kill you, or a medical emergency. The other is a vastly more often than not harmless play that went wrong. It's also a legal basketball play.

The Magic are the hardest working team in the league. We've seen plenty of players on our roster dive for loose balls all of this season, and last. This is the first injury that has happened in over 100 games the past two years from diving. It was a freak accident. One that Cole already feels horrible about. Now he has people online telling him he should be banned. Incredible.

you understand that I'm ADVOCATING for the NBA to make this illegal right? Thats the whole point of this. Im saying its well past time for the NBA to DO something about what is very clearly reckless behavior on the court. Do you know how many reckless elements of driving used to be legal before they eventually became illegal? Safety rules are implemented for a reason. You have any idea the kinds of things that used to be considered "hustle plays" in football that were insanely dangerous and consequential?

I understand that. It still doesn't work as an analogy for this situation. Freak accidents are always going to happen in sports, but diving for the ball should not be penalized. Diving AT someones legs should and I believe already is. Anthony did not do that though. He clearly made a move for the ball.

[ryguy613]

It's because you're making a false claim: Anthony never dove at Ivey's ankles. There are multiple videos and screen grabs in this thread that show a 50/50 ball with both players moving toward the ball. Neither had position.

The only way to regulate this is to make diving for the ball illegal. Is that your position?

Were you upset at Lin when he did this?

Watch on YouTube

Me being a laker fan means obviously I believe no Laker player has ever done wrong at any time ever.... for all of eternity. Bro, the **** you mean was I upset? lol. If my Laker bias had anything to do with this why would I be chiming in about a situation involving Orlando and Detroit? So uh... yes... any time a Laker player has done this I've been equally against it, and will continue to be. I guess that was a fun imaginary game of gotcha though...

I dont think diving for a ball should be illegal outright. I think it should be illegal to do so within a reasonable distance of another upright player. There are situations where diving for a ball is not putting other players at risk of a serious injury. This is clearly not an example of that.

Are you kidding me? That is a clear example of a reckless dive, actually. He dove at the ball in the direction of Udrih and even made him fall due to the contact. That play was actually far more dangerous and reckless than Anthony's. I'm personally okay with the play since I love watching when players do the dirty work, but if you think that play was better just because no one got injured, I think it makes your stance not only inconsistent, but also proves why I don't want a new rule in place. It would be too hard for everyone, including the refs, to agree on what is and isn't a "reckless dive."

...when did i say i was ok with what Lin did? I literally said i WASNT ok with it. lol.