Mavs shouldn't trade for Jimmy Butler, right?

[realEAST]

Let's do the 180 flip from yesterday.
Probably going to catch a lot of hate, but what can I do.... hard to gauge his value given contract status, age, availability, but he is still also pretty good. Maybe add 2031 swap from Dallas to Miami?

MIA: D. Gafford, PJ Washington, K. Thompson, M. Kleber, 2025 DAL 1st

DAL: J. Butler, H. Highsmith, N. Richards, K. Johnson

CHA: D. Powell, 2025 PHI 2nd, 2025 DAL 2nd

Fit in Dallas is questionable, they give up three key rotation pieces, but Jimmy is still a star, so it is what it is. Highsmith adds depth and Richards brought over as a replacement for Gafford.

Likewise, Miami gets three (four?) rotation pieces, as they are unlikely to bottom out and both PJ and Gaff kind of fit both the need and team culture. They get a 1st rounder in good draft too.

Hornets get two seconds for Ricahrds.

Irving - Butler - Doncic - Highsmith - Lively
Dinwiddie - Grimes - Marshal - Prosper - Richards

Herro - Thompson - Jaquez - Washington - Bam
Rozier - Robinson - Jovic - Kleber - Gafford

Flame away, I am done!

[BBallFreak]

I don't hate it, but out of respect, I'd instantly flip Klay for expiring deals and an asset

[vxmike]

This would leave Dallas with one rotational big on the team.

[_GH0ST_]

Bam, Ware, Herro, Duncan... So Miami doesn't need Gafford and Klay. Find a 3rd team for them and send the picks to Miami

[jayjaysee]

I wish Dallas had a different matching salary than PJ Washington. And I know PJ Washington shouldn’t stop a Butler trade obviously, just tough to look at the forward rotation and feel good…

I think if Dallas FO is willing to pay both of Kyrie and Butler's next contracts (max or just close to it) then this deal should get done. Might add Grimes to that list as well. Dallas’ distant future looks really bad but you deal with that if you think Butler is enough to help Luka beat OKC/Boston/(whoever your team is) in the next 24 months..

And I really don’t know if this group is willing to live over the second apron for at least 3 years.

But I still am gladly taking Wiggins for Maxi, Klay and the 2025 first if that’s an offer Miami likes. And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

[BBallFreak]

I wish Dallas had a different matching salary than PJ Washington. And I know PJ Washington shouldn’t stop a Butler trade obviously, just tough to look at the forward rotation and feel good…

I think if Dallas FO is willing to pay both of Kyrie and Butler's next contracts (max or just close to it) then this deal should get done. Might add Grimes to that list as well. Dallas’ distant future looks really bad but you deal with that if you think Butler is enough to help Luka beat OKC/Boston/(whoever your team is) in the next 24 months..

And I really don’t know if this group is willing to live over the second apron for at least 3 years.

But I still am gladly taking Wiggins for Maxi, Klay and the 2025 first if that’s an offer Miami likes. And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

I think we'd still need to flip Klay. This is feeling a bit like what Portland did last year, only not as tanky.

[jayjaysee]

But I still am gladly taking Wiggins for Maxi, Klay and the 2025 first if that’s an offer Miami likes. And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

I think we'd still need to flip Klay. This is feeling a bit like what Portland did last year, only not as tanky.

In any deal, I think Klay is negative value so not sure where he gets flipped.

I want to think some team takes him for a lot less money just no asset, I just don’t really know who that team is. He still makes defenses follow and stay on him. And that helps offenses, a lot.. But he gets paid a lot to do that.

Should LAL do Vincent, JHS, Wood for Klay and a min? Maybe?

[BBallFreak]

But I still am gladly taking Wiggins for Maxi, Klay and the 2025 first if that’s an offer Miami likes. And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

I think we'd still need to flip Klay. This is feeling a bit like what Portland did last year, only not as tanky.

In any deal, I think Klay is negative value so not sure where he gets flipped.

I want to think some team takes him for a lot less money just no asset, I just don’t really know who that team is. He still makes defenses follow and stay on him. And that helps offenses, a lot.. But he gets paid a lot to do that.

Should LAL do Vincent, JHS, Wood for Klay and a min? Maybe?

We're not going to take him if he's a negative. Why would we?

[jayjaysee]

I think we'd still need to flip Klay. This is feeling a bit like what Portland did last year, only not as tanky.

In any deal, I think Klay is negative value so not sure where he gets flipped.

I want to think some team takes him for a lot less money just no asset, I just don’t really know who that team is. He still makes defenses follow and stay on him. And that helps offenses, a lot.. But he gets paid a lot to do that.

Should LAL do Vincent, JHS, Wood for Klay and a min? Maybe?

We're not going to take him if he's a negative. Why would we?

Butler makes 50 million, it’s hard to match without including negative salary and getting Gafford/PJ/first more than makes up for Klay/Maxi imo.. But maybe if someone wanted they could find a team to send Gafford and Klay to for expiring? Gafford should cancel out Klay?

Not really a deal I see happening though, so not one to defend.

If it gets Dallas a banner, who cares about 2028-2030 pick debt. But I expect most Dallas fans to not like losing the depth and some to understand Cuban isn't writing the checks anymore so probably not willing to go over second apron for a 3-4 year run..

[Mavrelous]

Mavs can't do that, that's 2 starters and backup center, one of them is fan favourite and key for their defense in PJ.
There is a reason Butler hasn't been traded, it's hard to come up with matching salary.

[realEAST]

I wish Dallas had a different matching salary than PJ Washington. And I know PJ Washington shouldn’t stop a Butler trade obviously, just tough to look at the forward rotation and feel good…

I think if Dallas FO is willing to pay both of Kyrie and Butler's next contracts (max or just close to it) then this deal should get done. Might add Grimes to that list as well. Dallas’ distant future looks really bad but you deal with that if you think Butler is enough to help Luka beat OKC/Boston/(whoever your team is) in the next 24 months..

And I really don’t know if this group is willing to live over the second apron for at least 3 years.

But I still am gladly taking Wiggins for Maxi, Klay and the 2025 first if that’s an offer Miami likes. And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

Yeah, on one hand it goes against everything I believe in team building, and losing each of this guys would be hard, especially PJ and Gaff, while trading Klay half a season after he was prized FA signing also isn't ideal optics for a team that would likely be dependant on free agency for putting next iteration of team around Luka (after Jimmy / Kyrie)... so yeah, there certainly are drawbacks there.

On the other hand, Jimmy is still really, really good when on court, espscially come playoff time, when rotation shrinks, and Dallas would have three out of best five players in more or less any series (BOS / CLE / OKC are only ones up for discussion)

What I kind of like about this deal, with Highsmith included (I was afraid his inclusion would be more of a problem with Heath fans, honestly) and N. Richards brought in from Hornets, is that Dallas still keeps decent depth and has pretty good 8 or 9 player rotation for PO (starters + Dinwiddie, Grimes, Marshal / Highsmith, Richards).

Essentially, downgrading PJ and Gafford to Highsmith and Richards, while replacing Klay with Jimmy... it really cuts both ways...

[NYG]

Put me in the camp of put Butler/Luka/Kyrie together if you can and figure out the rest later.

[Xman]

Another version:
Dallas gets butler
Detroit gets pj, Powell, CJ
Miami gets Ingram, thj
NO gets gafford, Tobias, klay

Miami stays competitive this year and has offseason flexibility.
Detroit dumps Tobias and gets veteran help.
Dallas gets their guy.
NO turns team over to Murray and adds veteran bigs.
Add picks as needed.

[jayjaysee]

What I kind of like about this deal, with Highsmith included (I was afraid his inclusion would be more of a problem with Heath fans, honestly) and N. Richards brought in from Hornets, is that Dallas still keeps decent depth and has pretty good 8 or 9 player rotation for PO (starters + Dinwiddie, Grimes, Marshal / Highsmith, Richards).

Essentially, downgrading PJ and Gafford to Highsmith and Richards, while replacing Klay with Jimmy... it really cuts both ways...

Yeah. If I knew Adelson/etc would spend like Cuban to keep this group together.. I think you have to do it despite losing our PJ and the idea of Gafford.

I just don’t think they would be willing to. They do have the money behind them and it’s a maybe. Especially keeping Grimes and not involving the 2031 first out of it.

If you tell me they’re willing to give both old vets big 3 year deals. Or 4 year.. Then yeah. It’s worth it. Again helps more if they pay Grimes to stick around as the third guard.

We fell in love with DFS. And with PJ. And would with Butler.

[Nate the Great]

And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

I think he stays In Miami. The new CBA makes it very hard to move a large salary like his.

In the case of GS, they have to take back as many players as they trade away, because they’re only carrying 14. And they’re just under the apron. So in a trade where they give up four players, for example, they’d have to get back at least four players, or cap savings to sign enough players to get up to 14. With a huge contract like Butler’s, that becomes difficult.

I also think Butler is a poor fit for the Warriors. His defense would be great, but the Warriors would have to trade multiple defenders to get him. And I don’t think he’d enjoy the ball movement offense the Warriors use.

[165bows]

And I think Butler does actually end up in GS

I think he stays In Miami. The new CBA makes it very hard to move a large salary like his.

In the case of GS, they have to take back as many players as they trade away, because they’re only carrying 14. And they’re just under the apron. So in a trade where they give up four players, for example, they’d have to get back at least four players, or cap savings to sign enough players to get up to 14. With a huge contract like Butler’s, that becomes difficult.

I also think Butler is a poor fit for the Warriors. His defense would be great, but the Warriors would have to trade multiple defenders to get him. And I don’t think he’d enjoy the ball movement offense the Warriors use.

I remember saying the only possible deal out there for Kyrie was the LA deal and they should pull off the three way w Utah, and lo and behold.

He's a tough guy to move at his age and contract, but there prob is a dark horse somewhere, Detroit or something.

[Apz]

What I kind of like about this deal, with Highsmith included (I was afraid his inclusion would be more of a problem with Heath fans, honestly) and N. Richards brought in from Hornets, is that Dallas still keeps decent depth and has pretty good 8 or 9 player rotation for PO (starters + Dinwiddie, Grimes, Marshal / Highsmith, Richards).

Essentially, downgrading PJ and Gafford to Highsmith and Richards, while replacing Klay with Jimmy... it really cuts both ways...

Yeah. If I knew Adelson/etc would spend like Cuban to keep this group together.. I think you have to do it despite losing our PJ and the idea of Gafford.

I just don’t think they would be willing to. They do have the money behind them and it’s a maybe. Especially keeping Grimes and not involving the 2031 first out of it.

If you tell me they’re willing to give both old vets big 3 year deals. Or 4 year.. Then yeah. It’s worth it. Again helps more if they pay Grimes to stick around as the third guard.

We fell in love with DFS. And with PJ. And would with Butler.

More like mcgee. Cant really compare an undrafted guy that went thru mavs and a young good character guy with an over the hill guy that only want out because his team doesnt want to offer him a huge new contract. Klay is probably the best mavs comparison, and how that go we dont know yet. But making 4x what klay does. Really no reason to do a Suns and change great players that are on your stars timeline for an unknown 10 years older. I have ,ero intrest in butler to mavs

[realEAST]

What I kind of like about this deal, with Highsmith included (I was afraid his inclusion would be more of a problem with Heath fans, honestly) and N. Richards brought in from Hornets, is that Dallas still keeps decent depth and has pretty good 8 or 9 player rotation for PO (starters + Dinwiddie, Grimes, Marshal / Highsmith, Richards).

Essentially, downgrading PJ and Gafford to Highsmith and Richards, while replacing Klay with Jimmy... it really cuts both ways...

Yeah. If I knew Adelson/etc would spend like Cuban to keep this group together.. I think you have to do it despite losing our PJ and the idea of Gafford.

I just don’t think they would be willing to. They do have the money behind them and it’s a maybe. Especially keeping Grimes and not involving the 2031 first out of it.

If you tell me they’re willing to give both old vets big 3 year deals. Or 4 year.. Then yeah. It’s worth it. Again helps more if they pay Grimes to stick around as the third guard.

We fell in love with DFS. And with PJ. And would with Butler.

More like mcgee. Cant really compare an undrafted guy that went thru mavs and a young good character guy with an over the hill guy that only want out because his team doesnt want to offer him a huge new contract. Klay is probably the best mavs comparison, and how that go we dont know yet. But making 4x what klay does. Really no reason to do a Suns and change great players that are on your stars timeline for an unknown 10 years older. I have ,ero intrest in butler to mavs

Honestly, the best comparison imo is Irving... and I don't think there are many objections to him now.

As the time passes (I know, whole two days), I am leaning more and more towards this deal, mostly because Mavs keep still have more than reasonable depth, especially PO rotation (which means it most certainly won't happen).

[jbk1234]

Yeah, Klay is going to be the problem here because it's going to cost a 1st to move him to a third team.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah. Kyrie is a much better comparison.

I still don’t think Dallas is a realistic destination because I don’t believe the new ownership group is willing to live over the 2nd apron for 3+ years.

But if Luka and Kai like the idea and the ownership is open to extending Butler (and paying Kyrie) you do this deal.