Butler to Detroit

[babyjax13]

DET trades: Tobias Harris, Simone Fontecchio, Marcus Sasser, 2025 TOR 2nd, 2027 BRK/DAL 2nd (less favorable), 2028 MIA 2nd
MIA trades: Jimmy Butler, min. contract

Why DET does it: they just lost Ivey, so this gives them someone to replace that production and who will help them make the play-in. The cost here is relatively low, and I know they like Harris, but I think it is worth the development reps.

Why MIA does it: they cut money from their cap this year (about $13 million) and get good depth at three positions + some 2nds. This gets them under the luxury tax.

[chrbal]

This feels like a smaller scale Blake Griffin type move. Luke we’re going after the player he used to be. I fully get it, but I would hope they would pass on it

[jbk1234]

The Heat aren't going to take back Harris on that contract.

[Billl]

The chances of Jimmy resigning in detroit are about 0%. And frankly, if all they can get are second rounders for him, the heat should just hold onto him. His value won't get any lower than that.

[daoneandonly]

I like it if for no other reason another team choosing Tobias over Jimmy

[babyjax13]

The Heat aren't going to take back Harris on that contract.

He has one year left and it gets them out of the luxury tax *this* season if they add one minimum contract to this deal (which they wouuld). They are about 13 million over & their estimated tax bill is $24,831,427. This deal cuts 12.98 million before adding that final player.

[winforlose]

The chances of Jimmy resigning in detroit are about 0%. And frankly, if all they can get are second rounders for him, the heat should just hold onto him. His value won't get any lower than that.

Holding Jimmy means sending him home. I agree I wouldn’t do this deal, but I also wouldn’t pretend that something is less valuable than nothing.

[Snakebites]

The Heat aren't going to take back Harris on that contract.

He has one year left and it gets them out of the luxury tax *this* season if they add one minimum contract to this deal (which they wouuld). They are about 13 million over & their estimated tax bill is $24,831,427. This deal cuts 12.98 million before adding that final player.

Pat Riley likely views Harris as "bad money". Cuz he is.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think Pistons have to do it on value alone and hope that Jimmy fits well enough to resign with us.

[babyjax13]

The Heat aren't going to take back Harris on that contract.

He has one year left and it gets them out of the luxury tax *this* season if they add one minimum contract to this deal (which they wouuld). They are about 13 million over & their estimated tax bill is $24,831,427. This deal cuts 12.98 million before adding that final player.

Pat Riley likely views Harris as "bad money". Cuz he is.

I think it is better than burning the same amount in luxury tax money this season. Next year Harris is an expiring contract attached to an actual rotation player, he should be really good filler in a trade for someone Miami wants. I see this as resetting their capsheet and pushing the "asset" forward.

[Snakebites]

He has one year left and it gets them out of the luxury tax *this* season if they add one minimum contract to this deal (which they wouuld). They are about 13 million over & their estimated tax bill is $24,831,427. This deal cuts 12.98 million before adding that final player.

Pat Riley likely views Harris as "bad money". Cuz he is.

I think it is better than burning the same amount in luxury tax money this season. Next year Harris is an expiring contract attached to an actual rotation player, he should be really good filler in a trade for someone Miami wants. I see this as resetting their capsheet and pushing the "asset" forward.

To be clear, this would still help the Heat's tax situation, which the Heat should view as an absolutely essential thing in any Butler trade.

But if I'm Pat I'm probably thinking I can do better in that regard. If he's taking on non-expiring money it'll be someone who isn't negative value on that contract.

I'd do this trade.

[Snakebites]

This feels like a smaller scale Blake Griffin type move. Luke we’re going after the player he used to be. I fully get it, but I would hope they would pass on it

It might feel that way but it wouldn't be.

We gave up a first round draft pick in that deal. And we made it AFTER Blake signed an albatross extension, whereas this deal is being made in part because the Heat AREN'T signing him to one. Oh, and also Tobias was a positive asset when we traded him in that deal.

I'd say those are all fundamental differences, not just differences in degree.

[BBallFreak]

There is nothing here for Miami. We're not trading Jimmy for a bag of meh and getting out of the tax. Come on!

[babyjax13]

There is nothing here for Miami. We're not trading Jimmy for a bag of meh and getting out of the tax. Come on!

I don't think it is super, super far off the Dallas deal you liked. Harris has a better contract that Thompson because it is one less year, the seconds are about = to a late first, Fontecchio is better than Kleber, getting out of the luxury tax is probably worth a first, so I'd say a first + Sasser is worth Gafford. It is a PJ Washington short, but if that kind of offer doesn't materialize (and I don't think it will) Maimi is probably looking at 1 or 2 late firsts + "a bag of meh." I'd value the 2nds + Sasser as one of those late firsts, and the $24 million in savings this year as worth one of them. I think:

(a) getting out of the luxury tax is not sexy, but the Heat are not a good team and not worth paying it + Detroit is the most realistic way to duck it considering they are under the cap, and,
(b) Butler was already a bit of a distressed asset b/c he was saying he'd opt out and he is 35, but now he is also demanding a trade & throwing a major fit --- not sure what Miami can really expect to get out of him ... this is, IMO, much better than just playing through the year with him.

The only other deal I could think of would be to see if New Orleans would do something like Ingram + McCollum + filler for Butler + Rozier + asset(s) if the Ingram market is truly dead.

[BBallFreak]

There is nothing here for Miami. We're not trading Jimmy for a bag of meh and getting out of the tax. Come on!

I don't think it is super, super far off the Dallas deal you liked. Harris has a better contract that Thompson because it is one less year, the seconds are about = to a late first, Fontecchio is better than Kleber, getting out of the luxury tax is probably worth a first, so I'd say a first + Sasser is worth Gafford. It is a PJ Washington short, but if that kind of offer doesn't materialize (and I don't think it will) Maimi is probably looking at 1 or 2 late firsts + "a bag of meh." I'd value the 2nds + Sasser as one of those late firsts, and the $24 million in savings this year as worth one of them. I think:

(a) getting out of the luxury tax is not sexy, but the Heat are not a good team and not worth paying it + Detroit is the most realistic way to duck it considering they are under the cap, and,
(b) Butler was already a bit of a distressed asset b/c he was saying he'd opt out and he is 35, but now he is also demanding a trade & throwing a major fit --- not sure what Miami can really expect to get out of him ... this is, IMO, much better than just playing through the year with him.

The only other deal I could think of would be to see if New Orleans would do something like Ingram + McCollum + filler for Butler + Rozier + asset(s) if the Ingram market is truly dead.

That Pels deal is infinitely better as is the Dallas deal because of Washington and Gafford