Does Miami want Randle

[winforlose]

Putting the how aside and just asking the basic question. If the Butler out deal could return Randle in, is that something Miami wants?

[Godaddycurse]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

[jayjaysee]

I doubt they’d assign much of any value to it. Would help convey the 2025 pick, which should be important to them imo.

Open to it? Sure.

Want it? Meh.

[DanishLakerFan]

Want Randle? Maybe not, but the question is if they can do better.

[winforlose]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

[Godaddycurse]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

Well they can't take back over 100% of outgoing salary in the first place

[Kineto]

Exemple of something that seems legal

Heat out : J.Butler
Heat in : J. Randle, G. Vincent

Min out : J. Randle
Min in : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves

LAL out : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves, G. Vincent, J. Vandebilt
LAL in : J. Butler, W. Moore Jr.

DET out : W. Moore Jr.
DET in : J. Vanderbilt

need to be balance with some pick here and there, but it's seems legal even with the apron restriction for Minni.

[BBallFreak]

I think it would depend on the pick compensation and what the other piece is. I wouldn't take Gabe Vincent as the filler without a real first coming back.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Exemple of something that seems legal

Heat out : J.Butler
Heat in : J. Randle, G. Vincent

Min out : J. Randle
Min in : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves

LAL out : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves, G. Vincent, J. Vandebilt
LAL in : J. Butler, W. Moore Jr.

DET out : W. Moore Jr.
DET in : J. Vanderbilt

need to be balance with some pick here and there, but it's seems legal even with the apron restriction for Minni.

What's assets Minny have left? Not sure LAL has enough draft capital to make Miami happy.

Hard to see it as fixable for Miami. Might be a bit of homer take but I'll take the duo Reaves / Rui over a duo of Gabe and Randle.

[jayjaysee]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

“My understanding” - once you aggregate you’re hard capped at the second apron for that year. So no.

[winforlose]

Exemple of something that seems legal

Heat out : J.Butler
Heat in : J. Randle, G. Vincent

Min out : J. Randle
Min in : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves

LAL out : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves, G. Vincent, J. Vandebilt
LAL in : J. Butler, W. Moore Jr.

DET out : W. Moore Jr.
DET in : J. Vanderbilt

need to be balance with some pick here and there, but it's seems legal even with the apron restriction for Minni.

Wolves would probably want to decline Rui, give the Pistons their pick back, and get Beef stew. Now the KAT trade was Karl out for Beef Stew, Austin Reaves, and DDV. Might need some additional tweaks.

Edit to add: If Detroit is willing to eat Rui’s money and take V8, then they get a 1st for Beef Stew. Spotrac says it works. Wolves get Reaves and Beef, use the saving to help pay one of Naz or NAW next year. Reaves starts at PG for the Wolves, Conley to the bench. Detroit loses their backup C but gets their first back to make additional moves and adds Rui as an expiring next year and V8 who when healthy is a plus player. Miami gets rid of Jimmy and adds Randle, and LAL gets Jimmy.

[jayjaysee]

Exemple of something that seems legal

Heat out : J.Butler
Heat in : J. Randle, G. Vincent

Min out : J. Randle
Min in : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves

LAL out : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves, G. Vincent, J. Vandebilt
LAL in : J. Butler, W. Moore Jr.

DET out : W. Moore Jr.
DET in : J. Vanderbilt

need to be balance with some pick here and there, but it's seems legal even with the apron restriction for Minni.

What's assets Minny have left? Not sure LAL has enough draft capital to make Miami happy.

Hard to see it as fixable for Miami. Might be a bit of homer take but I'll take the duo Reaves / Rui over a duo of Gabe and Randle.

Yeah, I think Minn owes the value there as well. Or just get cut out. Vincent involved either way though..

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Exemple of something that seems legal

Heat out : J.Butler
Heat in : J. Randle, G. Vincent

Min out : J. Randle
Min in : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves

LAL out : R. Hachimura, A. Reaves, G. Vincent, J. Vandebilt
LAL in : J. Butler, W. Moore Jr.

DET out : W. Moore Jr.
DET in : J. Vanderbilt

need to be balance with some pick here and there, but it's seems legal even with the apron restriction for Minni.

What's assets Minny have left? Not sure LAL has enough draft capital to make Miami happy.

Hard to see it as fixable for Miami. Might be a bit of homer take but I'll take the duo Reaves / Rui over a duo of Gabe and Randle.

Yeah, I think Minn owes the value there as well. Or just get cut out. Vincent involved either way though..

Yea, I don't feel like LAL has a clean path to get Butler.

Gabe and/or Vandy money needs to be converted into shorter Money.

Reaves / Herro pairing would be interesting offensively and probably just as interesting defensively for the wrong reason. So Reaves probably not a fit.

Rui probably a fit but don't have any meaningful trade value.

[winforlose]

What's assets Minny have left? Not sure LAL has enough draft capital to make Miami happy.

Hard to see it as fixable for Miami. Might be a bit of homer take but I'll take the duo Reaves / Rui over a duo of Gabe and Randle.

Yeah, I think Minn owes the value there as well. Or just get cut out. Vincent involved either way though..

Yea, I don't feel like LAL has a clean path to get Butler.

Gabe and/or Vandy money needs to be converted into shorter Money.

Reaves / Herro pairing would be interesting offensively and probably just as interesting defensively for the wrong reason. So Reaves probably not a fit.

Rui probably a fit but don't have any meaningful trade value.

Short of moving Bron or AD it will take some money and pain to get Butler. The question is how badly does LAL want him?

[Scoot McGroot]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

Well, no…. Think it through, aggregating would create a hard cap at the 2nd apron, so they cannot go over the 2nd apron for ANY reason, so the trade involved that got them there would be void and illegal.

[winforlose]

As always depends on the cost. They probably prefer future assets to help them attract their next star?

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

Well, no…. Think it through, aggregating would create a hard cap at the 2nd apron, so they cannot go over the 2nd apron for ANY reason, so the trade involved that got them there would be void and illegal.

Yeah it was also pointed out above that being a first apron team means you cannot take back more than you send out anyway. It does make a lot of sense the way you explain it. It also means that any team that trades in the offseason using aggregation even outside the tax are hard capped under the 2nd apron. So smaller trades might be discouraged under this model. I am still trying to wrap my head around the new CBA.

[Scoot McGroot]

Honest question (I do not know the answer,) the Heat are under the 2nd apron, but can they aggregate in trades if the result is going over the 2nd apron?

Well, no…. Think it through, aggregating would create a hard cap at the 2nd apron, so they cannot go over the 2nd apron for ANY reason, so the trade involved that got them there would be void and illegal.

Yeah it was also pointed out above that being a first apron team means you cannot take back more than you send out anyway. It does make a lot of sense the way you explain it. It also means that any team that trades in the offseason using aggregation even outside the tax are hard capped under the 2nd apron.

Yup! The league spelled out that any move made after the first day after the end of the regular season would count toward the following league year.

So smaller trades might be discouraged under this model. I am still trying to wrap my head around the new CBA.

Only for teams that blow through and deep into the luxury tax. Anyone else has no issues as they’re staying below the apron levels or even the tax line.

[winforlose]

Well, no…. Think it through, aggregating would create a hard cap at the 2nd apron, so they cannot go over the 2nd apron for ANY reason, so the trade involved that got them there would be void and illegal.

Yeah it was also pointed out above that being a first apron team means you cannot take back more than you send out anyway. It does make a lot of sense the way you explain it. It also means that any team that trades in the offseason using aggregation even outside the tax are hard capped under the 2nd apron.

Yup! The league spelled out that any move made after the first day after the end of the regular season would count toward the following league year.

So smaller trades might be discouraged under this model. I am still trying to wrap my head around the new CBA.

Only for teams that blow through and deep into the luxury tax. Anyone else has no issues as they’re staying below the apron levels or even the tax line.

That is what I meant. As a for instance, Detroit has a ton of space and makes a small aggregation trade early in the offseason. Then, they have a much better than expected year and decide to trade for two big names (remember they have good cap space reserves,) they would be hard capped under the 2nd apron.

[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah it was also pointed out above that being a first apron team means you cannot take back more than you send out anyway. It does make a lot of sense the way you explain it. It also means that any team that trades in the offseason using aggregation even outside the tax are hard capped under the 2nd apron.

Yup! The league spelled out that any move made after the first day after the end of the regular season would count toward the following league year.

So smaller trades might be discouraged under this model. I am still trying to wrap my head around the new CBA.

Only for teams that blow through and deep into the luxury tax. Anyone else has no issues as they’re staying below the apron levels or even the tax line.

That is what I meant. As a for instance, Detroit has a ton of space and makes a small aggregation trade early in the offseason. Then, they have a much better than expected year and decide to trade for two big names (remember they have good cap space reserves,) they would be hard capped under the 2nd apron.

They’d run out of cap space well before they hit the hard cap at the second apron though. And would Detroit be willing to go that deep in the tax? Like, this year, the tax line is almost $171m and the 2nd apron is at almost $189m, all while the cap space runs out way back at $140.6m!

It’s unlikely a team could have aggregated their way from $140m to $189m mid season, even if there was no hard cap at the second apron.

[Andre Roberstan]

Yup! The league spelled out that any move made after the first day after the end of the regular season would count toward the following league year.


Only for teams that blow through and deep into the luxury tax. Anyone else has no issues as they’re staying below the apron levels or even the tax line.

That is what I meant. As a for instance, Detroit has a ton of space and makes a small aggregation trade early in the offseason. Then, they have a much better than expected year and decide to trade for two big names (remember they have good cap space reserves,) they would be hard capped under the 2nd apron.

They’d run out of cap space well before they hit the hard cap at the second apron though. And would Detroit be willing to go that deep in the tax? Like, this year, the tax line is almost $171m and the 2nd apron is at almost $189m, all while the cap space runs out way back at $140.6m!

It’s unlikely a team could have aggregated their way from $130m to $189m mid season, even if there was no hard cap at the second apron.

Yeah, as Scoot says, unless you're already carrying significant salary, it's a nonissue.

It's mostly aimed at teams that have been spending super deep into the tax with impunity, as it makes it VERY hard to build any semblance of a team without cost-controlled internal talent (the draft).

I don't like this CBA; I think it's too restrictive and there are a lot of unintended consequences that we're going to see the next year or two. Feels like a couple other owners were just mad at Ballmer. But IDK.