Minny-Chi (needs help)

[pipfan]

Randle, Dillingham and Det 1st for PWill/CWhite, Giddy and Port 1st

Minny gets better and younger. Giddy runs the 2nd team and they have
White/Donte/Conley
Ant/Donte/NAW
McDaniels/Giddy/NAW
PWill/Giddy/Reid
Gobert/Reid

Still have Minott and Shannon Jr. as young pieces

Bulls go in 2 directions-
This year they win more with Randle (then assume he'll opt out)
Ayo/Dillingham/Carter
Lavine/Ball/Duarte
Matas/Phillips/Ball
Randle/Craig/Smith
Vuc/Smith

They can look to make the playoffs with this team, then they are better set for the future with Ayo/Dillingham/Matas/Phillips/Smith, plus the Det pick (which could convert this year but almost for sure next).

They also clear PWill's long term money and don't have to overpay Giddy this summer and CWhite next summer

[schaffy]

I think the Dillingham/Giddey part doesnt work given the apron rules Minnesota is facing.

[winforlose]

So you said needs help, let’s break it down.

Financially, the total money in needs to either be less than Randle out, or one of the players needs to make less than Dilly. Think about like two trades, Randle for players X, and either Dilly for nothing, or Dilly for player Y. This is because of the aggregation rules.

Pwill is a bad contract. One of the reasons the Bulls purpose this deal is to move on from his money. The Wolves need to sign NAW and Naz and doing that with an 18 million bad deal is tough. A Rookie #8 overall is worth more than 2 years of White. In this case we aren’t even talking 2 years of White, we are talking a season and a half. Value is owed on that piece. Giddey is not someone the Wolves want, off court stuff aside, he is the guy guarded by opposing Cs as a non shooter. We already have Rudy and cannot load up with more non shooters. The draft swap is probably neutral as the Detroit pick might bust, but it could also pay out next year. Portlands pick might bust, but it won’t pay out till at least 26/27. I think Minnesota needs a lot more value added, and you probably need to send Pwill to a 3rd team. This trade also treats Randle as negative value, need to eat a bad contract to move him, I don’t agree with that take. I would redesign around balance. White and Smith to the Wolves is a good place to start, but ask yourself what would a team need to give to get your lottery first?

[schaffy]

The draft swap is probably neutral as the Detroit pick might bust, but it could also pay out next year. Portlands pick might bust, but it won’t pay out till at least 26/27.

I don't view the pick swap as neutral. The Det pick has declining protections over the next 3 years where the Portland one is flat at 1-14. In addition, the Pistons are in the east and further along in their rebuilding and already better so a better chance that pick conveys this year (or next year) vs later/possibly just 2nds for Portland.

[Dez]

No, no, no and absolutely f*** no.

No Randle now, no Randle tomorrow, no Randle ever.

[winforlose]

The draft swap is probably neutral as the Detroit pick might bust, but it could also pay out next year. Portlands pick might bust, but it won’t pay out till at least 26/27.

I don't view the pick swap as neutral. The Det pick has declining protections over the next 3 years where the Portland one is flat at 1-14. In addition, the Pistons are in the east and further along in their rebuilding and already better so a better chance that pick conveys this year (or next year) vs later/possibly just 2nds for Portland.

I could be wrong (please help me if I am,) but doesn’t the Detroit pick turn into 2nds if not conveyed by the 26 draft. Assume with Ivy down the Pistons miss the playoffs. Doesn’t that mean one year till bust into 2nds? Of course the East is so wide open Detroit could still make it, or trade for improvements to get to the playoffs this year to try and speed up development of their young stars. Do I have this wrong?

[winforlose]

No, no, no and absolutely f*** no.

No Randle now, no Randle tomorrow, no Randle ever.

LOL. Suddenly I understand you so much better.

[Dez]

No, no, no and absolutely f*** no.

No Randle now, no Randle tomorrow, no Randle ever.

LOL. Suddenly I understand you so much better.

Pretty simple to understand, the Bulls don't want the garbage that is Randle.

More than happy to give White for a 1st, what's the protection on the Detroit pick?

[wolves_89]

This should be an easy no for Minnesota. I can't imagine the Wolves having any interest in Williams or Giddey, and likely prefer Dillingham over White due to age and upside. I think there is some possibility of a Randle to Chicago deal, but this is definitely not it.

[schaffy]

The draft swap is probably neutral as the Detroit pick might bust, but it could also pay out next year. Portlands pick might bust, but it won’t pay out till at least 26/27.

I don't view the pick swap as neutral. The Det pick has declining protections over the next 3 years where the Portland one is flat at 1-14. In addition, the Pistons are in the east and further along in their rebuilding and already better so a better chance that pick conveys this year (or next year) vs later/possibly just 2nds for Portland.

I could be wrong (please help me if I am,) but doesn’t the Detroit pick turn into 2nds if not conveyed by the 26 draft. Assume with Ivy down the Pistons miss the playoffs. Doesn’t that mean one year till bust into 2nds? Of course the East is so wide open Detroit could still make it, or trade for improvements to get to the playoffs this year to try and speed up development of their young stars. Do I have this wrong?

Detroit pick turns to a 2nd in 2027 if not conveyed (protections are 1-13, 1-11, 1-9)
Portland pick turns to a 2nd in 2028 if not conveyed (protections 1-14, 1-14, 1-14, 1-14)

[shrink]

Detroit pick turns to a 2nd in 2027 if not conveyed (protections are 1-13, 1-11, 1-9)
Portland pick turns to a 2nd in 2028 if not conveyed (protections 1-14, 1-14, 1-14, 1-14)

Yes, much greater chance the pick confers, including a decent chance this year.

In addition, the DET pick has more value to MIN because it is a nice piece to offer the Pistons to get them involved in a three-way deal. DET’s cap space opens up more trade opportunities for MIN because they are over the second apron and paying nearly $100 mil in lux taxes, and DET should like to acquire the pick because it frees them up from Stepien issues in future trades. The two teams could also readjust the pick protections if DET gained or lost value, elsewhere in the trade.

[shrink]

As for the trade itself, I don’t think MIN is going to trade Randle because he’s been very productive and he and DDV are fitting in better over the last month, and MIN won’t want to go through another change in chemistry. However, if posters are looking for Randle between MIN and CHI,I’d suggest starting with Lonzo Ball.

Part of the specific benefit of Randle in MIN is that he’s productive now, and he may only have one (or zero) years left on his deal. This is important for MIN to climb under the apron, save lux taxes, and find new contracts for Naz Reid and Nickeil Alexander-Walker. Lonzo is on an expiring, and will only cost them money next season if he proves he’s necessary, and the team wants to bring him back. Multi-year players on questionable contracts like Patrick Williams is a bad fit for expensive teams.

[ChettheJet]

How are the Bulls better off right now or going forward with Randle and Dillinger instead of Williams, White and Giddey. Considering they still have Lavine and Vucevic.

I guess to be charitable Dillinger starts over Dosunmu so they only give up 3 starters for 2. They only get to use one basketball for Randle and Lavine to share, nobody sees that working out, any more than the loss of Williams' defense and Giddey's rebounding. As a contract mover this only helps if Randle opts out of $30M and and no agent is going to let that happen.