GSW - SAC - MIA :: Fox and Butler trade

Post #1 » by **zimpy27** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 9:31 pm

GSW get Butler, Love, Len
GSW give Wiggins, Kuminga, Looney, Schroeder

Miami get Fox, Wiggins, Schroeder, Looney
Miami give Butler, Herro, Love, Pelle, MIA29FRP, MIA31FRP

Kings get Kuminga, Herro, Pelle, MIA29FRP, MIA31FRP
Kings give Fox, Len

GSW get Butler who they've reportedly been after this season.

Miami don't rebuild, they use Butler and Herro's value to get Fox to join Bam, they also get Wiggins and Schroeder to build out a contender.

Kings start a rebuild for younger pieces. They consider who next to move from their roster.

SNPA · Post #2 » by **SNPA** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 9:38 pm

Picks that far out are a career death sentence for McNair. He needs value in the near term. A player or two (forwards ideally) and picks coming up in 25/26.

Post #3 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 9:42 pm

Miami isn't a contender after this. Losing Herro is a killer.

Looking at our lineup, I'm not sure we're more than mid and with no assets left to improve

Pg: Fox / Schroeder
Sg: Robinson / Rozier
Sf: Wiggins / Jaquez
Pf: Looney / Jovic / Highsmith
Cc: Adebayo / Ware

Maybe, but it feels like an overpay on our parts. Herro is an all-star, Jimmy is HIM. I'm not sure the difference is worth two firsts that far into the future.

Post #4 » by **zimpy27** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 9:45 pm

SNPA wrote:Picks that far out are a career death sentence for McNair. He needs value in the near term. A player or two (forwards ideally) and picks coming up in 25/26.

These longer picks are to be used in a trade for a star, you ideally don't want early picks from a team that you just have Fox to anyway right?

NW · Post #5 » by NW » Fri Jan 3, 2025 9:46 pm

Wiggins, Kuminga and Schroder tears it down to Steph and Jimmy as the only ballhandler/shot creator/bucket getters on the team. That’s not a recipe to go far

One_and_Done · Post #6 » by **One_and_Done** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 10:02 pm

I don't see Miami or Sac doing this.

CraftylikeaFox · Post #7 » by **CraftylikeaFox** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 10:09 pm

Any Kings fan that wouldn't do this is crazy. Fox is awesome but he's not worth Herro, Kuminga, AND 2 FRPs

Post #8 » by **zimpy27** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 10:22 pm

BBallFreak wrote:Miami isn't a contender after this. Losing Herro is a killer.

Looking at our lineup, I'm not sure we're more than mid and with no assets left to improve

Pg: Fox / Schroeder
Sg: Robinson / Rozier
Sf: Wiggins / Jaquez
Pf: Looney / Jovic / Highsmith
Cc: Adebayo / Ware

Maybe, but it feels like an overpay on our parts. Herro is an all-star, Jimmy is HIM. I'm not sure the difference is worth two firsts that far into the future.

Well you get Fox and Wiggins for Herro and Butler. I had the difference at a couple FRP.

Butler is great but aging out of value. Fox is in prime.

Post #9 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 3, 2025 10:46 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Miami isn't a contender after this. Losing Herro is a killer.

Looking at our lineup, I'm not sure we're more than mid and with no assets left to improve

Pg: Fox / Schroeder
Sg: Robinson / Rozier
Sf: Wiggins / Jaquez
Pf: Looney / Jovic / Highsmith
Cc: Adebayo / Ware

Maybe, but it feels like an overpay on our parts. Herro is an all-star, Jimmy is HIM. I'm not sure the difference is worth two firsts that far into the future.

Well you get Fox and Wiggins for Herro and Butler. I had the difference at a couple FRP.

Butler is great but aging out of value. Fox is in prime.

But Herro is an all-star and 24 years old. I would say he's significantly more valuable than Wiggins. I would agree that the difference between Jimmy and Fox would be two first round picks, but what about the value disparity between Herro and Wiggins?

SNPA · Post #10 » by **SNPA** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 3:40 am

zimpy27 wrote:
SNPA wrote:Picks that far out are a career death sentence for McNair. He needs value in the near term. A player or two (forwards ideally) and picks coming up in 25/26.

These longer picks are to be used in a trade for a star, you ideally don't want early picks from a team that you just have Fox to anyway right?

Sure if he has another deal for a star lined up to go. If he doesn’t he is just giving the next GM assets for trade.

Post #11 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 8:53 am

BBallFreak wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Miami isn't a contender after this. Losing Herro is a killer.

Looking at our lineup, I'm not sure we're more than mid and with no assets left to improve

Pg: Fox / Schroeder
Sg: Robinson / Rozier
Sf: Wiggins / Jaquez
Pf: Looney / Jovic / Highsmith
Cc: Adebayo / Ware

Maybe, but it feels like an overpay on our parts. Herro is an all-star, Jimmy is HIM. I'm not sure the difference is worth two firsts that far into the future.

Well you get Fox and Wiggins for Herro and Butler. I had the difference at a couple FRP.

Butler is great but aging out of value. Fox is in prime.

But Herro is an all-star and 24 years old. I would say he's significantly more valuable than Wiggins. I would agree that the difference between Jimmy and Fox would be two first round picks, but what about the value disparity between Herro and Wiggins?

Wiggins has been an actual all star and is playing as well as that season. Herro is yet to make an all star team, you are projecting him to be one this season.

I don't think their values are that far apart, which explains the difference in value perception here.

VaDe255 · Post #12 » by **VaDe255** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 9:00 am

zimpy27 wrote:Wiggins has been an actual all star and is playing as well as that season. Herro is yet to make an all star team, you are projecting him to be one this season.

I don't think their values are that far apart, which explains the difference in value perception here.

That's a wild take. Last year Herro was already worth more than Wiggins, but this year there is a huge gap between the value of these players.

Post #13 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 9:54 am

VaDe255 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Wiggins has been an actual all star and is playing as well as that season. Herro is yet to make an all star team, you are projecting him to be one this season.

I don't think their values are that far apart, which explains the difference in value perception here.

That's a wild take. Last year Herro was already worth more than Wiggins, but this year there is a huge gap between the value of these players.

Based on what?

Wiggins is a starting wing on a championship team that has been a 60% TS scorer and quality wing defender the past few years. He had a poor season last season due to external circumstances. He's looking good to go again.

Herro is a nice scorer but not a reliable defender. I think quite a few teams would value Wiggins over Herro.

VaDe255 · Post #14 » by **VaDe255** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 10:10 am

zimpy27 wrote:Based on what?

Wiggins is a starting wing on a championship team that has been a 60% TS scorer and quality wing defender the past few years. He had a poor season last season due to external circumstances. He's looking good to go again.

Herro is a nice scorer but not a reliable defender. I think quite a few teams would value Wiggins over Herro.

That's just narrative, not reality.

Wiggins has never been a 60% TS scorer. Over the last five years with Golden State, his TS% is 56%, and for his career, it's 53%. He struggles to be consistently effective as a 2nd/3rd option. His defense, which has been praised in the past, wasn't good last year, and it hasn't been good this year either. Plus, he's nearing 30, so expecting improvement at this stage isn't realistic.

On the other hand, Herro is drawing double teams and getting blitzed, yet he still scores efficiently at all three levels while also creating plays. He can play off the ball effectively when needed, and at just 25 years old, he shows the potential to be a really good #2 option or even flashes of a #1. Yes, his defense has limitations, but he's a good team defender and can be hidden within the right scheme.

Objectively, when you look at the numbers and the roles they play, almost nobody is going to value Wiggins higher than Herro right now.

quite shaqly · Post #15 » by **quite shaqly** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 10:57 am

little adjustment:

Warriors:
give: Payton, Kuminga, Wiggins, Schroder
Get: Jovic, Butler, Burks

Kings
Give: Fox, Derozan
get: Wiggins, Rozier, Schroder

Heat
Give: Rozier, Butler, Jovic, Burks
Get: Derozan, Fox, Payton & Kuminga

Payton could be switched with Hield if necessary.
Picks to be added to balance the things out.

Positive:
- Heat can dump Butler, get win now players (fox, derozan) and building chip with Kuminga so can give up some picks withouf forfaiting the futher
- Warriors get win now player with Butler, replacement ball handler with Burks who gives heat good numbers so far and young player with Jovic
- Kings get tradeble assets with Schroder (I see a trade possible with other contender this year), Rozier and Wiggins.
Without gutting the team fully and a tanking starting line up that can be fun to watch ( Rozier - Monk - wiggins - murray - sabonis)

Heat:
Fox - Payton
Herro - Derozan
Robinson - Jaquez
Kuminga - Love
Adebayo - Warre

Warriors:
Curry - Burks
Podziemski - Hield - Moody
Butler - Anderson
Green - Jovic
Looney -

Sacramento:
Rozier - Schroder
Monk - Huerter
Wiggins - Murray
Lyles - Crowder
Sabonis - Len

SNPA · Post #16 » by **SNPA** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 8:49 pm

quite shaqly wrote:little adjustment:

Warriors:
give: Payton, Kuminga, Wiggins, Schroder
Get: Jovic, Butler, Burks

Kings
Give: Fox, Derozan
get: Wiggins, Rozier, Schroder

Heat
Give: Rozier, Butler, Jovic, Burks
Get: Derozan, Fox, Payton & Kuminga

Payton could be switched with Hield if necessary.
Picks to be added to balance the things out.

Positive:
- Heat can dump Butler, get win now players (fox, derozan) and building chip with Kuminga so can give up some picks withouf forfaiting the futher
- Warriors get win now player with Butler, replacement ball handler with Burks who gives heat good numbers so far and young player with Jovic
- Kings get tradeble assets with Schroder (I see a trade possible with other contender this year), Rozier and Wiggins.
Without gutting the team fully and a tanking starting line up that can be fun to watch ( Rozier - Monk - wiggins - murray - sabonis)

Heat:
Fox - Payton
Herro - Derozan
Robinson - Jaquez
Kuminga - Love
Adebayo - Warre

Warriors:
Curry - Burks
Podziemski - Hield - Moody
Butler - Anderson
Green - Jovic
Looney -

Sacramento:
Rozier - Schroder
Monk - Huerter
Wiggins - Murray
Lyles - Crowder
Sabonis - Len

Awful for Sac. No way they make that deal.

OxAndFox · Post #17 » by **OxAndFox** » Sat Jan 4, 2025 8:58 pm

quite shaqly wrote:little adjustment:

Warriors:
give: Payton, Kuminga, Wiggins, Schroder
Get: Jovic, Butler, Burks

Kings
Give: Fox, Derozan
get: Wiggins, Rozier, Schroder

Heat
Give: Rozier, Butler, Jovic, Burks
Get: Derozan, Fox, Payton & Kuminga

Payton could be switched with Hield if necessary.
Picks to be added to balance the things out.

Positive:
- Heat can dump Butler, get win now players (fox, derozan) and building chip with Kuminga so can give up some picks withouf forfaiting the futher
- Warriors get win now player with Butler, replacement ball handler with Burks who gives heat good numbers so far and young player with Jovic
- Kings get tradeble assets with Schroder (I see a trade possible with other contender this year), Rozier and Wiggins.
Without gutting the team fully and a tanking starting line up that can be fun to watch ( Rozier - Monk - wiggins - murray - sabonis)

Heat:
Fox - Payton
Herro - Derozan
Robinson - Jaquez
Kuminga - Love
Adebayo - Warre

Warriors:
Curry - Burks
Podziemski - Hield - Moody
Butler - Anderson
Green - Jovic
Looney -

Sacramento:
Rozier - Schroder
Monk - Huerter
Wiggins - Murray
Lyles - Crowder
Sabonis - Len

You have to be kidding right. What in the world.