Wembanyama. I'm concerned

[tsherkin]

Game against the Nuggets was a brilliant performance.

[Godymas]

look 10 years from now there will be montages of last nights game with the title “when a 20 year old Wembanyama DOMINATED league MVP/best player in the league Nikola Jokic”

[Marvin Martian]

I think it's even better for the NBA that he was drafted to a low market but likeable team in San Antonio.

He would quickly become hated if he played for The Knicks, Lakers, Bulls etc (Sorry but that is the truth)

Feels like he is also an introvert type of personality who prefers a smaller market like SA anyway.

I don't think he prefers SA because it's a smaller market. He prefers SA because they were the pioneers of drafting and importing foreign talent.

[zimpy27]

Second year LeBron, at least right now, has no argument over Wemby. LeBron did make strides offensively but his defensive impact wasn't anywhere close to this. This is outrageous what Wemby is doing.

I really hope he has the durability LeBron did.

2nd year LeBron was 6th in MVP voting, held back by team not making playoffs.

I wonder where Wemby will finish in MVP voting

What argument is there for 2nd year LeBron over Wemby? Curious.

And MVP ranking as metric is about the worst possible idea.

Why would you discount metric? It's about ability relative to competition no? All the metrics are based on that.

[zimpy27]

Second year LeBron, at least right now, has no argument over Wemby. LeBron did make strides offensively but his defensive impact wasn't anywhere close to this. This is outrageous what Wemby is doing.

I really hope he has the durability LeBron did.

2nd year LeBron was 6th in MVP voting, held back by team not making playoffs.

I wonder where Wemby will finish in MVP voting

Worst case top 5

Yeah I was think 5th or 6th

[cupcakesnake]

2nd year LeBron was 6th in MVP voting, held back by team not making playoffs.

I wonder where Wemby will finish in MVP voting

What argument is there for 2nd year LeBron over Wemby? Curious.

And MVP ranking as metric is about the worst possible idea.

Why would you discount metric? It's about ability relative to competition no? All the metrics are based on that.

There's plenty of argument to be had for 2nd year Lebron. Boxscore derived "advanced" metrics paint Lebron as a vastly superior offensive player. Basketball-reference's WS/48 and BPM favor Lebron. PER gives Wemby a slight edge.

2005 Cavs were a slight positive (+1.98 net) with Lebron on the floor, and laughably bad (-7.03) with him off the floor. Those are almost KG Minnesota numbers.

2025 Victor is crazy though for on-off. +6.4 per 100 with him on, -8.89 with him off. They play like the Rockets or Knicks with Wemby on the floor, and like the Jazz or Raptors with him off. That's closer to Jokic territory in terms of boosting a team that can't live without you.

I think Wemby will be on a lot of MVP ballots this year. If he can stay healthy, I picture a lot of people's ballot being some order of Jokic/Shai/Giannis, and then Tatum/Wemby.

This assumes Luka is going to miss the 65 games. The MVP ballot could suck. Tons of guys wont be eligible.

[MrPainfulTruth]

What argument is there for 2nd year LeBron over Wemby? Curious.

And MVP ranking as metric is about the worst possible idea.

Why would you discount metric? It's about ability relative to competition no? All the metrics are based on that.

There's plenty of argument to be had for 2nd year Lebron. Boxscore derived "advanced" metrics paint Lebron as a vastly superior offensive player. Basketball-reference's WS/48 and BPM favor Lebron. PER gives Wemby a slight edge.

2005 Cavs were a slight positive (+1.98 net) with Lebron on the floor, and laughably bad (-7.03) with him off the floor. Those are almost KG Minnesota numbers.

2025 Victor is crazy though for on-off. +6.4 per 100 with him on, -8.89 with him off. They play like the Rockets or Knicks with Wemby on the floor, and like the Jazz or Raptors with him off. That's closer to Jokic territory in terms of boosting a team that can't live without you.

I think Wemby will be on a lot of MVP ballots this year. If he can stay healthy, I picture a lot of people's ballot being some order of Jokic/Shai/Giannis, and then Tatum/Wemby.

This assumes Luka is going to miss the 65 games. The MVP ballot could suck. Tons of guys wont be eligible.

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket. Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already. Defensively he is also a lot more impactful due to his sheer size and instincts. I have a hard time finding individual advantages for LeBron in their head to head comparison; probably his play making but that would not make up for Wembys advantages otherwise imho.

[tsherkin]

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket.

He also had the speed and handle for it, and the passing to compel defenders to keep that in their minds. His pressure as a playmaker was immense.

Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already.

By which you mean he shoots better at the foul line and finishes assisted buckets better, plus leveraging his size and volume 3pt shooting.

Wemby's D is wild, for sure, so it's an interesting comparison, but let's not reduce Lebron's impact because you don't enjoy the aesthetic.

[Iwasawitness]

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket.

He also had the speed and handle for it, and the passing to compel defenders to keep that in their minds. His pressure as a playmaker was immense.

Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already.

By which you mean he shoots better at the foul line and finishes assisted buckets better, plus leveraging his size and volume 3pt shooting.

Wemby's D is wild, for sure, so it's an interesting comparison, but let's not reduce Lebron's impact because you don't enjoy the aesthetic.

LeBron also had a much more refined jumper which he used frequently. So I don’t know why he keeps making the Giannis comparison.

[tsherkin]

LeBron also had a much more refined jumper which he used frequently. So I don’t know why he keeps making the Giannis comparison.

Not that much, no. He was better at the line, but he was basically useless outside of 3 feet. 37% from 3-10, 32.4% from 10-16, 37.3% from 16-23. He had a 3 at 35.1%, but like, he was pretty rough on his J, which was one of the more common criticisms of him at the time compared to Kobe and Melo.

It was a LITTLE better than Giannis, but more because he was just taking the shots whereas Giannis wouldn't.

[cupcakesnake]

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket. Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already. Defensively he is also a lot more impactful due to his sheer size and instincts. I have a hard time finding individual advantages for LeBron in their head to head comparison; probably his play making but that would not make up for Wembys advantages otherwise imho.

I am no Lebron fan, and didn't like his offensive game either early on, but you're over-simplying and discounting big parts of his game.

Yes 2005 Lebron was a big-time rim pressure scorer like Giannis. He got to the rim a lot and finished like a center. But Lebron had some amount of pull up game. It wasn't efficient, but he hit his long 2s, and was very efficient from the corners that year. You cant really compare that to Giannis. Lebron was also a way better playmaker and raw passer than Giannis, with more functional handle, and the ability to dime guys up in a variety of scenarios. Giannis is an effective passer, but not a super skilled one.

It was also a different era, right at the dawn of the 3-point era, and the Cavs were one of the worst 3-point shooting teams in the league. They had exactly 1 above average 3-point shooter in their rotation: 13 minutes per game of 2nd year Sasha Pavlovic. So it's not like Lebron was coming into a modern offense and being super limited. This team managed above average offense through size, Lebron drives, and offensive rebounding.

Wemby taking deep pull-ups is cooler, but relative to era, Wemby is a far from perfect offensive player. He's more of an experimental one at this point.

[D.Brasco]

I think it's even better for the NBA that he was drafted to a low market but likeable team in San Antonio.

He would quickly become hated if he played for The Knicks, Lakers, Bulls etc (Sorry but that is the truth)

Feels like he is also an introvert type of personality who prefers a smaller market like SA anyway.

I don't think he prefers SA because it's a smaller market. He prefers SA because they were the pioneers of drafting and importing foreign talent.

Foreign players do seem to be less concerned about market size than American players I find.

[cupcakesnake]

LeBron also had a much more refined jumper which he used frequently. So I don’t know why he keeps making the Giannis comparison.

Not that much, no. He was better at the line, but he was basically useless outside of 3 feet. 37% from 3-10, 32.4% from 10-16, 37.3% from 16-23. He had a 3 at 35.1%, but like, he was pretty rough on his J, which was one of the more common criticisms of him at the time compared to Kobe and Melo.

It was a LITTLE better than Giannis, but more because he was just taking the shots whereas Giannis wouldn't.

2nd year Lebron was pretty effective from the corners. I really hated all the silly Jordan/Kobe-wanna be stuff that young Lebron would do at the time, when he had such obvious better skills to emphasize, but I still think he was a much more threatening shooter than Giannis, who people still let walk into open 17 footers (but hey, Giannis is killing those shots this year!)

[uncleduck13]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

[Homer38]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

Wemby is 21 today!

[uncleduck13]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

Wemby is 21 today!

Oops…well surely that closes the gap

[Dogen]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

Wemby is 21 today!

Oops…well surely that closes the gap

21 already? Bust confirmed.

[CobraCommander]

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket. Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already. Defensively he is also a lot more impactful due to his sheer size and instincts. I have a hard time finding individual advantages for LeBron in their head to head comparison; probably his play making but that would not make up for Wembys advantages otherwise imho.

I am no Lebron fan, and didn't like his offensive game either early on, but you're over-simplying and discounting big parts of his game.

Yes 2005 Lebron was a big-time rim pressure scorer like Giannis. He got to the rim a lot and finished like a center. But Lebron had some amount of pull up game. It wasn't efficient, but he hit his long 2s, and was very efficient from the corners that year. You cant really compare that to Giannis. Lebron was also a way better playmaker and raw passer than Giannis, with more functional handle, and the ability to dime guys up in a variety of scenarios. Giannis is an effective passer, but not a super skilled one.

It was also a different era, right at the dawn of the 3-point era, and the Cavs were one of the worst 3-point shooting teams in the league. They had exactly 1 above average 3-point shooter in their rotation: 13 minutes per game of 2nd year Sasha Pavlovic. So it's not like Lebron was coming into a modern offense and being super limited. This team managed above average offense through size, Lebron drives, and offensive rebounding.

Wemby taking deep pull-ups is cooler, but relative to era, Wemby is a far from perfect offensive player. He's more of an experimental one at this point.

Completely agree - as good as wemby is, year two LeBron was better

ree-Point Percentage (3P%): 35.1%
• Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 75.0%
• Games Played: 80
• Minutes per game (MPG): 42.4
• Team Record: 41-39
• Achievements: Selected to his first All-Star game

Victor Wembanyama (2024-2025 Season, as of January 2, 2025):
• Points per game (PPG): 25.6
• Rebounds per game (RPG): 10.0
• Assists per game (APG): 3.9
• Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 48.0%
• Three-Point Percentage (3P%): 35.5%
• Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 87.9%
• Minutes per game (MPG): 32.9
With more blocks than the millennium falcon LEGO set !


It’s close but I think it’s still Lebron cause LBJ was closer to being the best guy in the world than Wemby is right now… if everyone healthy wemby still behind jokic, giannis, embiid, SGA, Luka and Tatum… pretty much in the Kat, Brunson, Jalen Brown, Kyrie. tier - that is above the Edwards tier -

Not saying wemby not better than the guys in his tier - wemby just not better than the guys in the top tier -

But no one in year two other than LeBron in recent memory compares- pre injury rose?

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

I'm very concerned with his behavior. JK

[CptCrunch]

Wemby right now on a goated track, we'll above LeBron at the same age.

It's just a matter of his lucky wrt injuries, dedication to the game, his body.

Bron has escape major injuries throughout his career and has treated his body like a temple for 20 years