Vucevic to Warriors, Payton to Pistons

[Mavrelous]

GPII is a 6'2" center, not guard.

[chrbal]

I think this makes most sense to alter OP

To Golden State (Trade Looney, Payton, Waters, Protected 1st)
-Nikola Vucevic
-2025 Kings 2nd via Bulls

To Chicago (Trade Vucevic, 2 2nds)
-Kevon Looney
-Lindy Waters
-2025 Warriors 1st (Top 10 protected or extinguished)
-2031 Pistons 2nd (31-55 protected)

To Detroit (Trade protected 2nd)
-Gary Payton
-2028 Kings 2nd via Bulls

I’m not going to respond to the first one. But here’s the problem with this.

Warriors absolutely do this, they practically give up nothing and really improve their roster at essentially the cost of losing Looney.

Chicago benefits way too much. The amount of money they save is greater than what’s owed to Payton. So they really don’t have to do this, unless there’s no one else but Talen Horton-Tucker they can cut.

So now Detroit, the one team with significant ability to absorb contracts. You’ve had them pay to get Payton (albeit a small amount), as well as get one measly second to absorb his contract. He’s a very solid depth guard, but after 8 or 9 seasons he hasn’t even played 240 games. He’s not anything special, he’s certainly not going to be able to be a key piece for Detroit filling in for Ivey. Detroit, at the very least should get 4 second round picks and be able to unload Moore in the process.

I’d argue it would just be better for the Bulls to keep Payton and instead attach assets to unload Duarte or (more likely) Craig.

[oldncreaky]

I don't see the Pistons taking salary dumps for free. They've all but cornered the market. They're more likely to hold out for the highest return they can get.

Well Payton would actually play a role short term now that Ivey broke his leg but I get it, Payton eats into more than 60% of available cap space and Pistons have leverage if a team wants to dump salary to get under tax by dealing picks to Pistons.

Th part of the trade

To "TeamX (Trade protected 2nd)
Gary Payton (1 year, $9.1 million)

makes absolutely no sense for DET

There are 5 non-contending teams with more than $9.1M under the luxury tax who could easily absorb Gary Payton or a similar salary:
CHA 9.2
TOR 9.2
WAS 12.0
UTA 27.1
DET 44.2

CHA, TOR or WAS could very well be willing to use that space to absorb an unwanted contract for a SRP

UTA and DET have bigger opportunities, and should not waste their space on such a small reward

[chrbal]

I don't see the Pistons taking salary dumps for free. They've all but cornered the market. They're more likely to hold out for the highest return they can get.

Well Payton would actually play a role short term now that Ivey broke his leg but I get it, Payton eats into more than 60% of available cap space and Pistons have leverage if a team wants to dump salary to get under tax by dealing picks to Pistons.

Th part of the trade

To "TeamX (Trade protected 2nd)
Gary Payton (1 year, $9.1 million)

makes absolutely no sense for DET

There are 5 non-contending teams with more than $9.1M under the luxury tax who could easily absorb Gary Payton or a similar salary:
CHA 9.2
TOR 9.2
WAS 12.0
UTA 27.1
DET 44.2

CHA, TOR or WAS could very well be willing to use that space to absorb an unwanted contract for a SRP

UTA and DET have bigger opportunities, and should not waste their space on such a small reward

I realize it’s not quite what you meant, but having Washington be the 3rd team in Bentleys trade might work better. Washington takes on Payton and a second while sending Johnny Davis to Chicago. Bulls still save money, get a Quick Look at Davis. Washington adds another second fairly cheaply and either keeps Payton as a veteran mentor or works out a buyout for him to join a new team

[oldncreaky]

Well Payton would actually play a role short term now that Ivey broke his leg but I get it, Payton eats into more than 60% of available cap space and Pistons have leverage if a team wants to dump salary to get under tax by dealing picks to Pistons.

Th part of the trade

To "TeamX (Trade protected 2nd)
Gary Payton (1 year, $9.1 million)

makes absolutely no sense for DET

There are 5 non-contending teams with more than $9.1M under the luxury tax who could easily absorb Gary Payton or a similar salary:
CHA 9.2
TOR 9.2
WAS 12.0
UTA 27.1
DET 44.2

CHA, TOR or WAS could very well be willing to use that space to absorb an unwanted contract for a SRP

UTA and DET have bigger opportunities, and should not waste their space on such a small reward

I realize it’s not quite what you meant, but having Washington be the 3rd team in Bentleys trade might work better. Washington takes on Payton and a second while sending Johnny Davis to Chicago. Bulls still save money, get a Quick Look at Davis. Washington adds another second fairly cheaply and either keeps Payton as a veteran mentor or works out a buyout for him to join a new team

Agree. Your example illustrates it (thanks).

That is exactly the kind of trade that makes sense for WAS, CHA or TOR -- but not for UTA or DET

[Ell Curry]

I don't see the Pistons taking salary dumps for free. They've all but cornered the market. They're more likely to hold out for the highest return they can get.

I thought this too, but some guy on Reddit who seemed sane was saying that teams with MLE space can take on a contract like Payton JR if they're still under the tax. Not sure if he's right, but if so, half the league could fit Payton Jr in with a minimum guy going out and stay under the tax, though some of those teams have used part of their MLE. But the list is still like 5 to 10 deep I think?

If that's right, the Pistons have corned the market on being able to take say a 22M contract coming in with just 8M (let's say Fontecchio) out, or say a 30M contract coming in with just Tim Hardaway JR's expiring going out. But not the "taking on Payton or Landale or Jeff Green or Connaughton and getting some 2nds in exchange" market.

[Ell Curry]

I think the Vucevic to GSW deal looks more like this:

GSW: Vucevic + Jevon Carter
CHI: Moody + Looney + Kyle Anderson
TOR/CHA or whoever: Payton JR, 2nd rounder from whichever of CHI/GSW is thirstier.

GSW saves a couple million to grab a buyout guy and some G-Leaguer to replace their 2 lost players.

Vucevic/TJD
Draymond/Wiggins/Kuminga
Curry/Schroder/Podz/Hield

They'd be in the tax next year though.

[jbk1234]

I don't see the Pistons taking salary dumps for free. They've all but cornered the market. They're more likely to hold out for the highest return they can get.

I thought this too, but some guy on Reddit who seemed sane was saying that teams with MLE space can take on a contract like Payton JR if they're still under the tax. Not sure if he's right, but if so, half the league could fit Payton Jr in with a minimum guy going out and stay under the tax, though some of those teams have used part of their MLE. But the list is still like 5 to 10 deep I think?

If that's right, the Pistons have corned the market on being able to take say a 22M contract coming in with just 8M (let's say Fontecchio) out, or say a 30M contract coming in with just Tim Hardaway JR's expiring going out. But not the "taking on Payton or Landale or Jeff Green or Connaughton and getting some 2nds in exchange" market.

Yes, if you're under the tax line, AND you still haven't used your MLE, you can do that, BUT if doing so would put you in the tax, you're in the tax.