PG: Knicks lose to Thunder

[Chanel Bomber]

The Thunder are the best team in the NBA with the Celtics and possibly the Cavs.

None of these teams experienced fundamental roster changes over the summer.

The Knicks are currently not on the same level as these 3 teams. They also needed time to integrate their new guys.

But what matters is whether they close the gap by April, May and June.

As far as trades are concerned, trading for Kessler would be a waste of resources in my opinion. He's a good shotblocker but he actually doesn't provide much deterrence at the rim, and his defensive presence is fairly mild. Barring any setbacks, the Knicks will already have two solid to great back-ups at C in Precious and Mitch for the playoffs. More than anything, I think we just need another wing or a big guard who can play 15 minutes per game to provide some relief for Brunson and the Wingstop guys.

[j4remi]

Umm...they discussed him taking a pay cut before drafting him? Like, that was part of the team meeting with all the players they would have drafted? It doesn't make sense to me.

it was in this case.

Link?

It's paywalled, but the article is in the athletic
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5834911/2024/10/11/karl-anthony-towns-trade-how-it-happened/

New York needed to pinch pennies, though not because the organization was cheap. Such is the way of today’s NBA, which has implemented a collective bargaining agreement that’s more punitive than any of its predecessors. An opening appeared for Pacome Dadiet, an 18-year-old who eventually became the Knicks’ only 2024 first-round pick.

Dadiet, attending the draft at Barclays Center with his agent, Yann Balikouzou, was willing to risk the weight of his wallet to ensure his new home. As the draft galloped through the teens, Dadiet’s people learned the Knicks were interested in the French prospect, though Dadiet might not get all the money usually promised to the 25th draft choice.

Salaries for first-rounders are mostly predetermined with a system called “the rookie scale,” which says draftees Nos. 1 through 30 can make as much as 120 percent of a mandated range and as little as 80. The higher the pick, the higher the salary. But whatever the range, rarely does a player take less than 120 percent of it.

Dadiet’s American agent, David Bauman, told his client he had the chance to go to the Knicks in the first round, but it could require a concession. The rookie scale determined that the No. 25 pick could make as much as $2.7 million in 2024-25. But whomever New York chose may have to settle for the low end of the rookie-scale range — in this case, $1.8 million. As Bauman laid out the finances to Dadiet, selections Nos. 20 and 21 came off the board. They didn’t have much time to decide. Dadiet never needed any.

Dadiet, from humble beginnings, wanted to play in New York. He had made only 40,000 Euro (nearly $44,000) playing in Germany the previous season. To him, $1.8 million didn’t sound like a sacrifice.

“Let’s do it,” Dadiet told Bauman.

Dadiet became the first first-rounder to sign for 80 percent of the rookie scale since 2019. At the time, the news seemed as if it were merely a niche piece of contractual trivia.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

Sometimes I think the NBA puts out theme that the ref follows...

I've watched this replay a few times and i think he actually got it off his fingertips just before that foot lands.

i remember seeing that save and just knowing the three was coming.

[louisorr]

Using different units isn’t only about preserving guys. It’s also a way to keep the opponent off balance. Imagine you’re up at the plate and the pitcher has one pitch (starting 5), vs a pitcher with four pitches ( various lineups). It just becomes easier to defend, and on top of it they are tired.

[KOA]

The lack of bench mins is a bit baffling. Thibs embraces the next man up mentality and played guys like Precious crazy mins last year after injuries and getting DNPs before.

Why does he trust them to play crazy mins in those situations but doesn’t trust his bench to play a quality 15MPG on a consistent basis? Any player will tell you it’s impossible to get into a rhythm when you don’t know if or how much you’ll get to play.

Others have said it before that more bench plays means less burnout for the starters who have consistently lacked production in crunch time from over exhaustion.

[HarthorneWingo]

Using different units isn’t only about preserving guys. It’s also a way to keep the opponent off balance. Imagine you’re up at the plate and the pitcher has one pitch (starting 5), vs a pitcher with four pitches ( various lineups). It just becomes easier to defend, and on top of it they are tired.

I hear you but OKC was on the second game of a back to back. They didn’t look tired to me.

[jvsimonetti0514]

You’re the one demanding changes to the rotations. I’d like to know what changes you’d make. Not really sure how you can say it’s an excuse to ask you who should play instead and what line ups they should play in.

How many wins from last season were you willing to sacrifice to see more of Burks and Bojan? Just to remind you that Burks shot 30% from the field and 30% from 3. Bojan had a negative 14 net rating. I do agree that shake shouldve been given a shot but if he was as bad as the other two would it be worth it to keep trotting him out there? There was only a 4 game difference between being the second seed or the 8th seed. Idk if last season would be remembered as fondly if we were a playin team that got crushed in the first or second round.

I would have been playing Kolek and Pacome against the teams who put G-leaguers on the floor against us, and that would have started weeks ago when we were blowing teams out. I wouldnt do the platoon change lineups Tom does, I'd go with Kolek on the floor only when Mikal and OG are there with him, and Pacome would be the release valve to get one of the 3 wings more rest. The Thunder are the second best team in the league, they have been playing a second round pick 16mpg from essentially the start of the season, he was -4 last night, did that kill them? Jaylin Williams was -10 last night, they played him regardless. You're not going to win every minute of every game.

I'm willing to sacrifice regular season wins as long as the team gets to the playoffs healthy, which they have not done once under Tom. Burks also shot 50% from the field and 43% from three in 20mpg against the Pacers, he averaged 15ppg in that series but apparently, he could give us nothing after the trade deadline. There are only 13 teams in the NBA that have a positive net rating with their benches, and shockingly we are one of them, the problem is ours just doesn't play enough.






415 minutes is completely hilarious for a bench that actually wins the minutes they're on the floor, albeit they can't score, but you can't score when they're out there.

So last season you would have been cool losing 4 more games and being the 8th seed and getting crushed by the Celtics? That wouldn’t change your perception of last season at all? I’m sorry, I just don’t believe that. I guarantee if we lost some games cuz Thibs played the bench for too long you’d be right in this thread complaining that Thibs didn’t do some other thing right or even blaming him for playing the bench too long.

Shamet was +2 on the night. Guess we didn’t get killed in his minutes at the top of the 4th? Maybe he should have left him out there longer and we would’ve won. Just don’t think using single game plus/minus really tells the full story.

Who are the players that are considered our bench players for that net rating? Is it just our bench players or our bench line up? Our bench line ups have towns and Mikal in them. It wouldn’t be surprising to me that they’d have a positive net rating with those guys and deuce.

Forever thankful for Burks showing up in the playoffs but Burks has 23 games to make an impact and instead he had 42 TS%. That’s almost 30% of the season. Don’t know how you can say he didn’t get a chance.

Totally agree about dadiet. He should have been getting the Obi special before Shamet got healthy.

[thebuzzardman]

Maybe Dadiet can get some minutes after KAT and Brunson have aged out.

I'm giving KAT, Brunson, and our entire starting lineup 4.5 years from now until they age out

That would be the end of the 2028-29 season

If they win one championship before then, the aging out process will start faster IMO

That makes Dadiet a luxury item.

Like keeping a vintage Citroen in the garage just because.

[thebuzzardman]

it was in this case.

Link?

It's paywalled, but the article is in the athletic
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5834911/2024/10/11/karl-anthony-towns-trade-how-it-happened/

New York needed to pinch pennies, though not because the organization was cheap. Such is the way of today’s NBA, which has implemented a collective bargaining agreement that’s more punitive than any of its predecessors. An opening appeared for Pacome Dadiet, an 18-year-old who eventually became the Knicks’ only 2024 first-round pick.

Dadiet, attending the draft at Barclays Center with his agent, Yann Balikouzou, was willing to risk the weight of his wallet to ensure his new home. As the draft galloped through the teens, Dadiet’s people learned the Knicks were interested in the French prospect, though Dadiet might not get all the money usually promised to the 25th draft choice.

Salaries for first-rounders are mostly predetermined with a system called “the rookie scale,” which says draftees Nos. 1 through 30 can make as much as 120 percent of a mandated range and as little as 80. The higher the pick, the higher the salary. But whatever the range, rarely does a player take less than 120 percent of it.

Dadiet’s American agent, David Bauman, told his client he had the chance to go to the Knicks in the first round, but it could require a concession. The rookie scale determined that the No. 25 pick could make as much as $2.7 million in 2024-25. But whomever New York chose may have to settle for the low end of the rookie-scale range — in this case, $1.8 million. As Bauman laid out the finances to Dadiet, selections Nos. 20 and 21 came off the board. They didn’t have much time to decide. Dadiet never needed any.

Dadiet, from humble beginnings, wanted to play in New York. He had made only 40,000 Euro (nearly $44,000) playing in Germany the previous season. To him, $1.8 million didn’t sound like a sacrifice.

“Let’s do it,” Dadiet told Bauman.

Dadiet became the first first-rounder to sign for 80 percent of the rookie scale since 2019. At the time, the news seemed as if it were merely a niche piece of contractual trivia.

Couldn't they have just not rostered some scrub like Shamet and drafted Dunn instead?

Instead now the Knicks are carrying TWO useless scrubs on the roster.

Not counting other relatively useless players like Simms and Suckporti.

[thebuzzardman]

The Thunder are the best team in the NBA with the Celtics and possibly the Cavs.

None of these teams experienced fundamental roster changes over the summer.

The Knicks are currently not on the same level as these 3 teams. They also needed time to integrate their new guys.

But what matters is whether they close the gap by April, May and June.

As far as trades are concerned, trading for Kessler would be a waste of resources in my opinion. He's a good shotblocker but he actually doesn't provide much deterrence at the rim, and his defensive presence is fairly mild. Barring any setbacks, the Knicks will already have two solid to great back-ups at C in Precious and Mitch for the playoffs. More than anything, I think we just need another wing or a big guard who can play 15 minutes per game to provide some relief for Brunson and the Wingstop guys.

OKC traded The Didler for Caruso.

That's way overselling Semi-Precious.

Even though Precious can see some time at the 4, his skill set is that of a 5.

It's a waste carrying 5 guys on the roster who are 5s.

Thibs is a lunatic, but the FO f*cked up carrying so many mediocre 5s.

Sims
Semi-Precious
Mitch (Mr DNP)
Suckporti

If KAT is going to play 5, two out of those 4 guys need to go.

[thebuzzardman]

Using different units isn’t only about preserving guys. It’s also a way to keep the opponent off balance. Imagine you’re up at the plate and the pitcher has one pitch (starting 5), vs a pitcher with four pitches ( various lineups). It just becomes easier to defend, and on top of it they are tired.

Payne
Shamet
Precious
Sims
Hukporti


That should throw some teams off balance.

[Clyde_Style]

Thibs plays his bench if they are GOOD. Minutes of previous bench players we used to have:

Immanuel Quickley - 29mpg
Divo - 20
Ihart - 20
Grimes - 20
"MJ" Burks - 25
Josh Hart - 30

The last 3 seasons our benches have been 30th, 30th and 23rd in MPG. Using the MPG of 1 or 2 guys doesn't really mean anything, he has gone into overdrive of playing starters since he got Brunson.


This team is on borrowed time.

Who should have Thibs played more of the last 2 seasons? Feel like it’s impossible to conceptualize where they fell league wide without listing the players they were available to play.

Last season can easily be explained by the freak injuries to 3 of our starters. Moving our bench guys into the starting line up. Grimes, Burks, Bojan they made moves to try to bolster but they were all terrible. Were you really trying to see more Burks? What about Jacob Toppin? Or was it Charlie Brown?

The year prior to that one, IQ played 28.9 mpg, Hart 30 mpg after the trade, Ihart 18.9 mpg, Obi 15.7. All seem like reasonable amount of minutes for bench players. Not really seeing an Issue. So who cares if they were ranked 30th in the league? Were we really missing out on giving minutes to washed Rose or Evan Fournier so we can have a better ranking compared to rest of the league?

I’d like for Kolek to get more minutes but are you running out line ups with Kolek, Deuce, Payne, and precious together? What sort of line up configuration are you surrounding Dadiet with to make him successful? Is getting him those minutes worth less time for the starters playing?

Kolek is a poised and seasoned playmaker with 4 years of college and led the nation in assists. He can play with the first unit if Brunson sits while any remaining combo of Mikal, Hart, OG and KAT are on the floor. It does not require him to be paired with bench players. The guy knows how to run offensive sets and he has already shown he can execute PnRs like a veteran.

There's a reason the Knicks made history by giving him a multi-year deal as a 2nd rounder. He shouldn't have fallen out of the first round. He's able to run any team from what I've seen so far.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks could get some really good bench pieces for Brunson. They should explore this.

[Adelheid]

Everyone saying the bench sucks but where is the proof? Have we seen them play enough minutes to even judge them?

Have we seen them play alongside different starters? You know, staggering bench and starter minutes to find lineups that work? Why is it that “scrub of the night” exists for every team in the league except the Knicks?

Regardless, we had a 12-14 point lead and we lost it with the starters playing. Would we have lost it with the bench being involved? Maybe. But would the starters have been more rested to compete harder in the 4th? Also a possibility. We’ll never know.

We know we don’t have a great whistle. We know towns and Brunson are getting hammered all game long with no calls. Is that sustainable for 40 mins a night all season long? Thibs has no brain in his head. He hasn’t been any kind of basketball genius in over a decade. Times have changed

brilliantly done sir
im not gonna lie- i need to have the same confidence in Thibs that I have in our core guys and honestly - I dont have it.

Either the bench sucks or Thibs sucks. Either way, Knicks are a 2nd tier playoff team, right there with the Hawks and Magic.

even with this otherwordly roster, we are just that, eh?

hopefully they fix this before the window closes

[thebuzzardman]

brilliantly done sir
im not gonna lie- i need to have the same confidence in Thibs that I have in our core guys and honestly - I dont have it.

Either the bench sucks or Thibs sucks. Either way, Knicks are a 2nd tier playoff team, right there with the Hawks and Magic.

even with this otherwordly roster, we are just that, eh?

hopefully they fix this before the window closes

The Knicks are like some Oligarchal nation. Like the USA, if you will.

Lots of plenty at the top, poverty below that.

Truly a team for these times.

[louisorr]

Knicks could get some really good bench pieces for Brunson. They should explore this.

with that bloated contract?

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks could get some really good bench pieces for Brunson. They should explore this.

with that bloated contract?

It's smaller than a lot of others. They could get two quality bench pieces. Then the Knicks could start Deuce and Thibs would have all the defense he wants.

Knicks are trying to hide two poor defenders right now in KAT and Brunson. That doesn't work. One has to go.

Anyway, Brunson is a ballhog.

Brunson is just smaller Randle without a personality disorder.

[nedleeds]

If KAT is going to play 5, two out of those 4 guys need to go.

If KAT is going to play the 5 you can hang the second round exit banner. We're giving up 145 a game to the Cavs or Magic.


Edit: Assuming he is even available to play after playing the 5 for 3 more months at 39.89 minutes a **** game under this deranged ass clown coach.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Read on Twitter

Sometimes I think the NBA puts out theme that the ref follows...

I've watched this replay a few times and i think he actually got it off his fingertips just before that foot lands.

i remeber seeing that save and just knowing the three was coming.

It looked like iHart was out to me and looked like even Wallace had a foot out on the same play.... At the same time some calls went both ways. the knicks got out hustled and out played in the second half and lost because of their play

[F N 11]

Thibs overplay guys against bad teams. He’s not that good. I get backlash for saying it but whatever. Videos popped up saying his offense better than his defense. Funny he depends on players for both. Schemes are trash.