RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[One_and_Done]

If not before then. It's obvious to anyone objective that Lebron is better than Jordan ever was. Honestly, if Jordan played today nobody would think he was the GOAT. They'd call him a worse version of prime Lebron.

[ScrantonBulls]

Someone fact check this but from a user in the 30 point games thread.

"MJ outscored 982 out of 983 of his opponents head to head in his entire career. The only player to outscore him was AI. Now Jordan was at the tail end of his career at the time of course.

MJ outscored 268 out of 269 opponents head to head in playoff series. Terry Cummings was the only player to outscore him in a series very early in MJ's career.

To quote OP post - The extent of his dominance is simply incredible!"



(as far as I know, this is all true)

It took me looking up literally one player to figure out this was incorrect. AI was already listed as scoring more than MJ head-to-head. The player I looked up was TMac. TMac scored more than MJ head-to-head. You know things are looking grim when MJ fans have to resort to lying. Of course, it could just be a case of bledredwine being wrong for the 100th time.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/michael_jordan_vs_tracy_mcgrady.htm

Second player I looked was Vince Carter, who also outscored MJ.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/vince_carter_vs_michael_jordan.htm

[JustBuzzin]

This is a fact.

All them years of me calling people old heads. Now I'm becoming a old head myself.

Crazy my nephew doesn't even know who Allen Iverson is.

[Stan]

[SkyBill40]

Cry about it, dude.

[OdomFan]

Can't control how others view things, but some group here and there will still recognize that Jordan led his team to more without team hopping to join up with other stars. I salute that future set of groups in that crazy civilization.

[Calvin Klein]

MJ’s legend is still growing today.

[ninjamilk23]

Internet exist. Show them 2011 Finals.

[Nate505]

I mean maybe, but Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky, and Pele are still pretty revered today and talked about as the GOAT in their sport.

[BigGargamel]

This is like all the kids saying Kendrick Lamar is the GOAT over Nas. They're completely wrong of course, but they didn't live through the height of Nas so I can't really blame them for thinking that.

So much of it is "you had to be there", especially with sports. Box scores and YouTube clips can only tell you so much.

[NZB2323]

I mean maybe, but Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky, and Pele are still pretty revered today and talked about as the GOAT in their sport.

Is Babe Ruth the GOAT? He played some games against Negro league teams but there were no black players in the MLB.

Ohtani seems like he’s becoming the GOAT.

[LAvision]

[Nate505]

I mean maybe, but Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky, and Pele are still pretty revered today and talked about as the GOAT in their sport.

Is Babe Ruth the GOAT? He played some games against Negro league teams but there were no black players in the MLB.

Ohtani seems like he’s becoming the GOAT.

Whether he, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Ty Cobb, Satchel Page, Josh Gibson, Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, Ohtani etc (like my personal favorite, Rickey Henderson). are or aren't is debatable, but the overarching point is that people will still debate it to this day, despite some of those names being dead for 80 years or whatever.

[One_and_Done]

Internet exist. Show them 2011 Finals.

Pace adjusted Lebron's 2011 finals stats compare favourably to Magic Johnson's 1980 finals MVP campaign. They lost to a better team because the roster was unbalanced. The next year when that was addressed they won easily. If Jordan had played on that Heat team they wouldn't have made the finals to begin with.

[Jaqua92]

Nah, that isn't gonna happen

[One_and_Done]

New generations of fans will look at Lebron's 45k points, 12k assists and rebounds, along with his vastly better stats and physical attributes, and wonder what exactly Jordan's argument is.

[Jaqua92]

New generations of fans will look at Lebron's 45k points, 12k assists and rebounds, along with his vastly better stats and physical attributes, and wonder what exactly Jordan's argument is.

This is objectively untrue.

[bledredwine]

Someone fact check this but from a user in the 30 point games thread.

"MJ outscored 982 out of 983 of his opponents head to head in his entire career. The only player to outscore him was AI. Now Jordan was at the tail end of his career at the time of course.

MJ outscored 268 out of 269 opponents head to head in playoff series. Terry Cummings was the only player to outscore him in a series very early in MJ's career.

To quote OP post - The extent of his dominance is simply incredible!"



(as far as I know, this is all true)

It took me looking up literally one player to figure out this was incorrect. AI was already listed as scoring more than MJ head-to-head. The player I looked up was TMac. TMac scored more than MJ head-to-head. You know things are looking grim when MJ fans have to resort to lying. Of course, it could just be a case of bledredwine being wrong for the 100th time.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/michael_jordan_vs_tracy_mcgrady.htm

Second player I looked was Vince Carter, who also outscored MJ.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/vince_carter_vs_michael_jordan.htm

Woah, the entire second half of your comment is just basketball-related, drama free statements. I respect it.
The first half, however, is still very trashy and childish.

You also need to look up "lying" as I told you in the original post I was awaiting confirmation and didn't fact check it.
I get that you're upset and MJ dominating the debate, but there's no reason to make baseless claims and resort to
childish insults.

Now, back to actual basketball...

Anyone while he was on the Bulls before 2nd retirement?

As far as playoff series, I almost know it to be true. I need someone to prove it wrong if so, but I've never seen someone outscore Jordan in a playoff series (apparently Cummings did)

[ninjamilk23]

Internet exist. Show them 2011 Finals.

Pace adjusted Lebron's 2011 finals stats compare favourably to Magic Johnson's 1980 finals MVP campaign. They lost to a better team because the roster was unbalanced. The next year when that was addressed they won easily. If Jordan had played on that Heat team they wouldn't have made the finals to begin with.

Damn, that's actually really impressive. Magic Johnson in his rookie year at age 20 is comparable to LeBron in his prime. Kareem didn't even play in game 6 due to injury and Magic still manage to get the win.

Wade averaged 26-7-5 on 54% FG during 2011 Finals. I bet if you do your "Pace adjustment" he'd be comparable to prime Wilt in 61-62 season. LeBron really made sure to show Wade what it was like playing with Mo Williams as your 2nd best player but imitating him during 2011 Finals.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

If MJ decided to stat pad and play out 22 seasons only playing one end he'd have had 100,000 and 12 rings. See, it works both ways.