Derrick Rose’s Jersey To Be Retired By Chicago Bulls

[BullChit]

I'm definitely a black pilled Bulls fan over the past decade or so however there are levels to this and oosh... anybody upset by or feeling the need to question the Rose jersey retirement is many levels above where I am at...

I'm all for if, in spite of poor management, the birth of the super douche teams and his injuries he reignited the Bulls and the fanbase.

Hell I'd be more than happy with a Noah jersey retirement to follow it...

[#1TKfan]

Some of these comments here reminds me why I take LONG breaks from this forum. Lol

Deng and Noah banner talks?
I'd take Kukoc and Rodman banner talk before that noise and still wouldn't put 91 and 7 before 1.

As far as Drose,
I love it. The accolades alone is borderline retired jersey. Talks about, "they wouldn't have done it if not from Chicago" but I think it's what he's done for his community and City of Chicago that clinched it. Can't have the MJ and Pip bar comparison. That's too high.

No title means no banner? Then Rose should be right up there with Sloan and Love.

Let's face it, he was the most exciting Bulls player to watch since MJ. And there's no denying that.

[bullsnewdynasty]

I don't think he entirely deserves it based on how things ended but it is 100% a PR move to build some goodwill around the league.

Definitely one of the rare cases where losing about 5-10% of your explosiveness post-injury turned him into basically an average guard. Yes he lost 2-3 ultra prime years of his career, but when he came back he was still only 26.

[Jo Jo English]

The Derrick Rose injury is always going to be such a sad part of the team's lore. I don't know have a strong argument for or against his jersey being retired, you can make a case either way, but Derrick's early years here were the most fun I have had watching this team in a quarter century. By far.

He was an MVP. Youngest ever.

Congrats, D. Rose.

[Red8911]

Not enough team success and he only did it for a very short time to deserve this. Even the MVP that he won was great and all but once playoffs came around LeBron proved that he was a lot better( I hate LeBron but it’s the truth).

Also those saying Noah’s number should be retired, how about Deng, Kirk, Rodman ? If you start retiring everyone’s number it will have less meaning and future bulls players will have to start wearing ridiculous numbers lol.

[dougthonus]

So, here's the thing. You're talking about a subjective set of criteria, but that applies to organizations as much as it does fans. Some organizations give out jersey retirements like candy, and some are more stingy about it. I think the Bulls have always been on the stingier side, while organizations like the Celtics and Lakers for example retire guys like Cedric Maxwell, Reggie Lewis, and Jamaal Wilkes in addition to all the obvious legends.

I don't think the Bulls are stingy about it as much as there aren't really clear cut other guys to retire. It's largely maybes. I also think it is about guys who represent periods of times, and all the maybes have different guys representing those times.

I still think Horace and Dennis should be retired as the #3 guys in the dynasty. I still think Chet Walker should've gotten the honor, because I think he was actually the best player on those early 70s Dick Motta teams that went to two conference finals(and got a few FGs away from the Finals in 1975). Maybe Stormin' Normin too. And even though the team didn't accomplish much of anything while he was here, Artis Gilmore is a legend and he put up very good individual numbers here for six years, so I think he's worth a look too. Shoot, I even think Toni warrants an outside look - though he's probably a harder sell - as the fourth, and some nights third, most important guy on a threepeat team.

I wouldn't argue if the Bulls wanted to retire all those guys. They picked two guys from that era to represent the era. Could they have picked 4 guys and added Norm/Chet? Sure. I wouldn't be upset by that, but it was an era with 2 playoff series wins in franchise history prior to Jordan that was generally unwatched and unpopular. I'm fine that they only picked two as well.

I would be a fan of retirirng Rodman's number. Fans would eat it up, but 0 all-star appearances and he was the 3rd/4th guy depending how you view him vs Kukoc and was here for a grand total of 3 seasons, but after they failed in Jordan's retire, Rodman felt like he moved the needle back to titles. I can see why they didn't do it too, but i would do it.

Grant has the homeless man's version of Rodman's case. No where near as good a player but has longevity, but also lacked the same level of popularity and had a big falling out with the organization. I'd be less a fan of retiring his, but also wouldn't mind if they did.

So while I don't have a big problem with Derrick getting the honor, and I'm sure it'll be a great, fun, feel-good moment when it happens, I am a bit annoyed that the organization is seemingly lowering the bar to a certain degree now when it's probably too late for all those other guys to have their jerseys retired(because Chet and Norm are gone, and I'm skeptical that many people from the dynasty would show up for Horace or Dennis given how the Ring Of Honor went, Scottie going off the deep end, etc).

I think Rose is more deserving than everyone you named, and he's the guy going in for this era. All those other guys have people whom represent their eras, for the legacy guys their era was LESS successful than Rose's era.

[jnrjr79]

So, here's the thing. You're talking about a subjective set of criteria, but that applies to organizations as much as it does fans. Some organizations give out jersey retirements like candy, and some are more stingy about it. I think the Bulls have always been on the stingier side, while organizations like the Celtics and Lakers for example retire guys like Cedric Maxwell, Reggie Lewis, and Jamaal Wilkes in addition to all the obvious legends.

I don't think the Bulls are stingy about it as much as there aren't really clear cut other guys to retire. It's largely maybes. I also think it is about guys who represent periods of times, and all the maybes have different guys representing those times.

I still think Horace and Dennis should be retired as the #3 guys in the dynasty. I still think Chet Walker should've gotten the honor, because I think he was actually the best player on those early 70s Dick Motta teams that went to two conference finals(and got a few FGs away from the Finals in 1975). Maybe Stormin' Normin too. And even though the team didn't accomplish much of anything while he was here, Artis Gilmore is a legend and he put up very good individual numbers here for six years, so I think he's worth a look too. Shoot, I even think Toni warrants an outside look - though he's probably a harder sell - as the fourth, and some nights third, most important guy on a threepeat team.

I wouldn't argue if the Bulls wanted to retire all those guys. They picked two guys from that era to represent the era. Could they have picked 4 guys and added Norm/Chet? Sure. I wouldn't be upset by that, but it was an era with 2 playoff series wins in franchise history prior to Jordan that was generally unwatched and unpopular. I'm fine that they only picked two as well.

I would be a fan of retirirng Rodman's number. Fans would eat it up, but 0 all-star appearances and he was the 3rd/4th guy depending how you view him vs Kukoc and was here for a grand total of 3 seasons, but after they failed in Jordan's retire, Rodman felt like he moved the needle back to titles. I can see why they didn't do it too, but i would do it.

Grant has the homeless man's version of Rodman's case. No where near as good a player but has longevity, but also lacked the same level of popularity and had a big falling out with the organization. I'd be less a fan of retiring his, but also wouldn't mind if they did.

So while I don't have a big problem with Derrick getting the honor, and I'm sure it'll be a great, fun, feel-good moment when it happens, I am a bit annoyed that the organization is seemingly lowering the bar to a certain degree now when it's probably too late for all those other guys to have their jerseys retired(because Chet and Norm are gone, and I'm skeptical that many people from the dynasty would show up for Horace or Dennis given how the Ring Of Honor went, Scottie going off the deep end, etc).

I think Rose is more deserving than everyone you named, and he's the guy going in for this era. All those other guys have people whom represent their eras, for the legacy guys their era was LESS successful than Rose's era.

I think the Bulls have probably retired enough jerseys at this point, but if I were to do another, it’d be Noah. It would sort of align in the two guys per era framework you outlined. And the Bulls noted that part of Derrick’s retirement was off-the-court stuff. Nobody has done more of that for Chicago than Noah, and he remains really invested here even though he doesn’t live here anymore. He’s a guy who gave everything he had and was around for the whole Rose era.

Doing another dynasty person is tough, because nobody else was around for both 3-peats. The argument against Rose was that his career here was too brief, but that would also apply to dynasty people (though arguably better offset by actually winning championships, I suppose).

[dougthonus]

Doing another dynasty person is tough, because nobody else was around for both 3-peats. The argument against Rose was that his career here was too brief, but that would also apply to dynasty people (though arguably better offset by actually winning championships, I suppose).

I would probably retire Rodman and Noah's numbers.

I think the thing with the other dynasty guys having their short tenure off set by winning is that its also offset by championship equity. The majority of that equity goes to Jordan, the majority of it that is left goes to Pippen, it's hard to then say that there is so much championship equity left, but that's why I do think Rodman is an interesting case, because they lost the year before in Jordan's comeback, and then they had the best season in the history of the NBA after adding him, and he addressed an absolutely critical weakness. It feels like Rodman was kind of irreplaceable in what he brought and what the Bulls needed in a way that Grant (or anyone else on either team) did not.

Like you could probably have replaced Grant with a dozen other decent big men and been fine or Kukoc with a bunch of other bench scorers. There wasn't anyone like Rodman that you could have put in Rodman's place except probably all-star level guys.

As for Noah, similar to what you said, I like the symmetry of two guys from a good era, and well Noah's just my all time favorite Bull both on and off the court. Plus it is my favorite Bulls insider story that I convinced him to sign his contract extension.

[DuckIII]

One collateral positive that could come from retiring Rose’s number is that perhaps it greases the tracks for Noah and Deng. I doubt it does and maybe it shouldn’t as Rose is the only clear superstar among them, but I think it strengthens the case for both.

95% won’t happen. But Rose getting retired would be step one before Noah or even Deng (much longer shot) would ever receive the honor.

[greenwing]

I’m happy for Derrick but not really sure what the bar is for retiring a jersey in the United Center. Rose has a relatively small tenure of superb work with the Bulls and then his injury derailed his career. As much as it’s easy to speculate that he could have been one of the all time greats with at least one year had he stayed healthy, we will never know. I suspect making this announcement a year in advance of him getting his jersey retired and having LeBron and Paul in a tribute video is a ploy to get people to raise his status and get him into the hall of fame.

If hall of fame is the bar then Kukoc and Rodman need to be up there. Same with Artis Gilmore who was a 5-time all star with us, spent the majority of his career here and is in the hall of fame.

If the bar is accolades then Noah should be up there since he was a DPOY, MVP candidate and NBA first team. Then there’s guys like Deng and Hinrich who spent several years with the team and helped with long playoff runs. And Horace who was critical to three titles.

What is the bar now? I would really love to know.

For me I think Rodman, Kukoc and Noah should all be up there. But that’s just me. Also, I didn’t watch that era but it seems that Gilmore should be up there, as well.

[NZB2323]

Doing another dynasty person is tough, because nobody else was around for both 3-peats. The argument against Rose was that his career here was too brief, but that would also apply to dynasty people (though arguably better offset by actually winning championships, I suppose).

I would probably retire Rodman and Noah's numbers.

I think the thing with the other dynasty guys having their short tenure off set by winning is that its also offset by championship equity. The majority of that equity goes to Jordan, the majority of it that is left goes to Pippen, it's hard to then say that there is so much championship equity left, but that's why I do think Rodman is an interesting case, because they lost the year before in Jordan's comeback, and then they had the best season in the history of the NBA after adding him, and he addressed an absolutely critical weakness. It feels like Rodman was kind of irreplaceable in what he brought and what the Bulls needed in a way that Grant (or anyone else on either team) did not.

Like you could probably have replaced Grant with a dozen other decent big men and been fine or Kukoc with a bunch of other bench scorers. There wasn't anyone like Rodman that you could have put in Rodman's place except probably all-star level guys.

As for Noah, similar to what you said, I like the symmetry of two guys from a good era, and well Noah's just my all time favorite Bull both on and off the court. Plus it is my favorite Bulls insider story that I convinced him to sign his contract extension.

At the very least Noah should be added to the ring of honor. Kukoc over him is silly.

Are you sure that Rodman was that much better than Horace Grant? Grant basically played the Dennis Rodman role on the Bulls. Grant was a better offensive player, made the all-star team in 94, and finished 8th, 6th, and 11th in DPOTY voting from 96-98. He never took a Vegas Vacation away from the team or skipped practice for WWE. And he played for the Bulls for 7 years instead of 3, but I guess he didn’t leave on the best terms.

[bullsnewdynasty]

I think the argument for giving him the jersey retirement is that he probably wins us at least 1 championship and a FMVP if he doesn't have the injury problems. If you can live in that hypothetical world, it least makes some sense.

2011-12 Rose before the injury was the best PG in the league. Head to head he destroyed CP3, Wall, Jennings, etc.

I would say peak Rose was putting up a 29/16/8 in a road blowout W against prime CP3. If he could have sustained that level of play for his entire prime he definitely would be a HOF and probably top 15-20 player all-time.

[Am2626]

So, here's the thing. You're talking about a subjective set of criteria, but that applies to organizations as much as it does fans. Some organizations give out jersey retirements like candy, and some are more stingy about it. I think the Bulls have always been on the stingier side, while organizations like the Celtics and Lakers for example retire guys like Cedric Maxwell, Reggie Lewis, and Jamaal Wilkes in addition to all the obvious legends.

I don't think the Bulls are stingy about it as much as there aren't really clear cut other guys to retire. It's largely maybes. I also think it is about guys who represent periods of times, and all the maybes have different guys representing those times.

I still think Horace and Dennis should be retired as the #3 guys in the dynasty. I still think Chet Walker should've gotten the honor, because I think he was actually the best player on those early 70s Dick Motta teams that went to two conference finals(and got a few FGs away from the Finals in 1975). Maybe Stormin' Normin too. And even though the team didn't accomplish much of anything while he was here, Artis Gilmore is a legend and he put up very good individual numbers here for six years, so I think he's worth a look too. Shoot, I even think Toni warrants an outside look - though he's probably a harder sell - as the fourth, and some nights third, most important guy on a threepeat team.

I wouldn't argue if the Bulls wanted to retire all those guys. They picked two guys from that era to represent the era. Could they have picked 4 guys and added Norm/Chet? Sure. I wouldn't be upset by that, but it was an era with 2 playoff series wins in franchise history prior to Jordan that was generally unwatched and unpopular. I'm fine that they only picked two as well.

I would be a fan of retirirng Rodman's number. Fans would eat it up, but 0 all-star appearances and he was the 3rd/4th guy depending how you view him vs Kukoc and was here for a grand total of 3 seasons, but after they failed in Jordan's retire, Rodman felt like he moved the needle back to titles. I can see why they didn't do it too, but i would do it.

Grant has the homeless man's version of Rodman's case. No where near as good a player but has longevity, but also lacked the same level of popularity and had a big falling out with the organization. I'd be less a fan of retiring his, but also wouldn't mind if they did.

So while I don't have a big problem with Derrick getting the honor, and I'm sure it'll be a great, fun, feel-good moment when it happens, I am a bit annoyed that the organization is seemingly lowering the bar to a certain degree now when it's probably too late for all those other guys to have their jerseys retired(because Chet and Norm are gone, and I'm skeptical that many people from the dynasty would show up for Horace or Dennis given how the Ring Of Honor went, Scottie going off the deep end, etc).

I think Rose is more deserving than everyone you named, and he's the guy going in for this era. All those other guys have people whom represent their eras, for the legacy guys their era was LESS successful than Rose's era.

I think the Bulls have probably retired enough jerseys at this point, but if I were to do another, it’d be Noah.It would sort of align in the two guys per era framework you outlined. And the Bulls noted that part of Derrick’s retirement was off-the-court stuff. Nobody has done more of that for Chicago than Noah, and he remains really invested here even though he doesn’t live here anymore. He’s a guy who gave everything he had and was around for the whole Rose era.

Doing another dynasty person is tough, because nobody else was around for both 3-peats. The argument against Rose was that his career here was too brief, but that would also apply to dynasty people (though arguably better offset by actually winning championships, I suppose).

You think 4 jersey retirements are a lot? That has to be on the very low end of basketball franchises. Look at the Lakers and Celtics. 2 guys that have their jersey’s retired, Love and Sloan are not even deserving of it. In addition to Rose, we should see Rodman and Noah added. If Butler were to come back and get the Bulls to a contender level could consider him as well.

[jnrjr79]

I don't think the Bulls are stingy about it as much as there aren't really clear cut other guys to retire. It's largely maybes. I also think it is about guys who represent periods of times, and all the maybes have different guys representing those times.



I wouldn't argue if the Bulls wanted to retire all those guys. They picked two guys from that era to represent the era. Could they have picked 4 guys and added Norm/Chet? Sure. I wouldn't be upset by that, but it was an era with 2 playoff series wins in franchise history prior to Jordan that was generally unwatched and unpopular. I'm fine that they only picked two as well.

I would be a fan of retirirng Rodman's number. Fans would eat it up, but 0 all-star appearances and he was the 3rd/4th guy depending how you view him vs Kukoc and was here for a grand total of 3 seasons, but after they failed in Jordan's retire, Rodman felt like he moved the needle back to titles. I can see why they didn't do it too, but i would do it.

Grant has the homeless man's version of Rodman's case. No where near as good a player but has longevity, but also lacked the same level of popularity and had a big falling out with the organization. I'd be less a fan of retiring his, but also wouldn't mind if they did.



I think Rose is more deserving than everyone you named, and he's the guy going in for this era. All those other guys have people whom represent their eras, for the legacy guys their era was LESS successful than Rose's era.

I think the Bulls have probably retired enough jerseys at this point, but if I were to do another, it’d be Noah.It would sort of align in the two guys per era framework you outlined. And the Bulls noted that part of Derrick’s retirement was off-the-court stuff. Nobody has done more of that for Chicago than Noah, and he remains really invested here even though he doesn’t live here anymore. He’s a guy who gave everything he had and was around for the whole Rose era.

Doing another dynasty person is tough, because nobody else was around for both 3-peats. The argument against Rose was that his career here was too brief, but that would also apply to dynasty people (though arguably better offset by actually winning championships, I suppose).

You think 4 jersey retirements are a lot? That has to be on the very low end of basketball franchises. Look at the Lakers and Celtics. 2 guys that have their jersey’s retired, Love and Sloan are not even deserving of it. In addition to Rose, we should see Rodman and Noah added. If Butler were to come back and get the Bulls to a contender level could consider him as well.

If the Bulls were nearly as successful as the Lakers or Celtics as an NBA franchise, I suspect they’d have had more occasion to retire jerseys.

[jc23]

im fine with it. Derrick's Jersey retirement is very much about his connection to Chicago, but its also an acknowledgement to the best era of Bulls ball since MJ retired.

I draw the line at a statue tho.

[Andi Obst]

I draw the line at a statue tho.

This is it. This is the way the Reinsdorfs can turn this into a 3-year-thing.

[Jcool0]

He was about to be market corrected by Steph Curry when he got hurt. Even without the injury his most likely career outcome based on what happened post injury was Russell Westbrook 2.0. Which isn't a bad career to have but he was probably going to end up as a bench player by the end no matter what happened. For all his die hards it is probably good they can just remember him for his MVP years and everything else can be blamed on injuries. I think i can agree with some here that i used to care about who was in the rafters but ultimately its a marketing thing and doesn't effect anything on court so its fine whoever makes it up there.